When is on body flash vs. a hotshoe flash needed?

catspaw · December 8, 2008

Are there any articles are guidelines on when one flash is needed over another?

I am, quite suddenly, tasked with taking photos for the company party in 2 days. I can pick up the SB-400, 600, or 900 fairly quickly for this, but while a flash has been on my eventual 'buy someday' list, it's nothing I've technically *needed* yet.

So I suppose the question is, WHEN do you need a flash that isn't the one the camera came with? Armed right now with the Nikon D50, I've found the flash to be quite capable in everything I've asked of it so far without whiting out people/animals/etc.

However, this party is a multi-room, multi-floor affair with rooms for different activities (wii, dancing, rock band, ice skating, movies, fusball, dinner, drinks, etc etc) and very likely to be low light -- which is probably an understatement.

However, I'm going to feel like a down right fool if I drop the $$ now on a flash I never use or that ruins the photos. Bad idea, I know. Last minute purchases straight into usage? I'm asking for disaster. Heck, I don't even know what lens I'll use -- probably the 17-200 Nikkor since it's so versatile, but it IS slower, whereas the fixed 60 is great for portraits but sucks for group/room shots and and .... :help

is there a *headdesk* smiley? Oy.

Mostly, I'd love to do this right so I can bulk up my portfolio a bit as well as eexperience. ANY technique suggestions for such a situation?

pathfinder · December 8, 2008

Built in on camera flash is seriously limited in power, and limited in that it cannot be removed off to the side, so that you can get much better quality of light.

If you really were going to get an SB-800 or something like that, I would encourage it IF, and only IF, you really sit down and learn to use it. I would suggest iTTL with the camera in manual mode, bouncing the flash off a white wall or a ceiling if possible. Learning to use a new flash off camera is a fair learning curve for just a couple of days, I think.

If you always use your camera in Program or one of the auto modes, adding a new flash may be more information than you are ready to absorb at this time.

catspaw · December 8, 2008

pathfinder wrote:

Built in on camera flash is seriously limited in power, and limited in that it cannot be removed off to the side, so that you can get much better quality of light.

If you really were going to get an SB-800 or something like that, I would encourage it IF, and only IF, you really sit down and learn to use it. I would suggest iTTL with the camera in manual mode, bouncing the flash off a white wall or a ceiling if possible. Learning to use a new flash off camera is a fair learning curve for just a couple of days, I think.

If you always use your camera in Program or one of the auto modes, adding a new flash may be more information than you are ready to absorb at this time.

Hmm. I'll probably use Shutter priority for this event, although I typically use manual these days (Thanks DGrin shootout, you ruined me for good...) unless it's a horse show, but that's another horse (har har har) entirely.

If I pick one up from Pictureline tomorrow morning, I've the entire day off to play with it and learn -- alas, a bit more than I can get it through Amazon, but Amazon wouldn't deliver until a few hours before the event. Hmmm. I might just grab a small SB-400 for now and wait for the 900 to drop in price next year (I can dream, right?). The SB-400 I can at least get for close to the same price locally with a puffer or other difuser and then play around, even if it means shooting random junk in the garage just for the low light experience (hey, maybe I'll find those xmas lights while I'm at it....).

Thanks! gives me something more to mull over.

pathfinder · December 8, 2008

Shutter priority means your aperture will vary from frame to frame.

If you shoot in Manual mode, with the strobe in iTTL, you can control the exposure of the background with YOUR choice of aperture, shutter speed and ISO, and properly expose the subjects in the foreground with the flash.. This is a cool thing to be able to do!

catspaw · December 8, 2008

pathfinder wrote:

Shutter priority means your aperture will vary from frame to frame.

If you shoot in Manual mode, with the strobe in iTTL, you can control the exposure of the background with YOUR choice of aperture, shutter speed and ISO, and properly expose the subjects in the foreground with the flash.. This is a cool thing to be able to do!

Oh most definitely cool! the entire iTTL makes me giddy/happy, which is why the additional flexibility of the SB-900 makes me drool. I like power over my toys

*checks* oh bugger! the SB-400 does have iTTL but seems to only support manual in a D40? that's bizarre. I'm D50 right now.

I think what you were getting at is that I should pick a flash that *does* permit me full manual control? or are you talking about manual control of the *flash* vs. the camera itself? I can do manual well enough (on a camera), I just have *no* notion of what sort of event situation I'll be in. fun times, trying to "prepare" when I'm essentially facing a complete unknown.

pathfinder · December 8, 2008

What I am describing with the Nikon SB-600 or SB-800 is the ability to control the exposure of the background entirely by your choice of aperture, shutter speed and ISO, while properly exposing the fubject with your flash automatically via iTTL. Your camera is set to Manual Mode, and your flash is set to iTTL.

This lets you under-expose your background by 2 or 3 stops if you want, and still light your subject properly.

Think of stage lighting with a spot light on the subject and the back of the set in darkness chosen by the director -- you !!

catspaw · December 8, 2008

pathfinder wrote:

Think of stage lighting with a spot light on the subject and the back of the set in darkness chosen by the director -- you !!

Mmm. AWESOME. *rubs hands in glee*

I'm overdue for a flash, right? right!

pathfinder · December 8, 2008

Sounds like a plan to me!

Nikon offers off camera control of flash with several of its camera and an SB-800 and others.

I wrote about how I used off camera flash at chaotic family gatherings here

This is kind of the situation you are going to be in I suspect.

Scott_Quier · December 9, 2008

As you describe it, your party sounds a lot like most evening wedding receptions - so maybe I have some ground to stand on when I suggest the following (which mostly a repeat of what PF has already said):

Get the flash - the more you spend the more features you'll get
Shoot manual mode. When I shoot dark receptions with on-camera flash I use:
- ISO 800 - The lower your ISO, the harder your flash will have to work and the slower you shutter speed will have to be to include ambient light in your exposure. ISO 800 is usually a good compromise between getting ambient light and limiting the amount of noise in the photo - at least with the Canon xxD series cameras.
- Aperture f/2.8 to f/4 - the smaller your aperture, the more your flash will have to work
- Shutter: 1/15 to 1/125 - The slower the shutter, the more subject blur you will get (can be a good thing) caused by a combination of subject motion and camera shake but also the more ambient light will contribute to your exposure. The faster the flash, the more your photos will look like they were shot in a cave - your subject will be lit by the flash, but the flash will not be powerful enough to light the entire room so you'll not get a lot of context in your photos.
Check out this thread on flash modifiers, paying particular attention to Ziggy's post. With a Better Bounce Card (costs less then $2 to make) and a white ceiling, you can get some pertty wonderfully exposed photos. If you don't have white ceilings, you may want to look at the scoop reflector referenced in Ziggy's post (third link).
If you have your flash mounted on your camera, be aware of what your flash is doing if/when you rotate your camera to "portrait" orientation. If you don't pay careful attention, you can get some pretty awful looking "side shadows" cast on the background by your subjects.
You could also use your flash as a "light on a stick" as demonstrated/discussed by jeffreaux2 in this post.

Be sure to practice shooting in a large (the largest you can find - if you can use a Middle/High School gym - that would be ideal) dark room, but you'll need at least one friend to help you out with that. Practicing flash techinque, in these conditions, without a person/subject/model will pretty much be a waste of time.

Sounds like you are going to have some fun.

Mitchell · December 9, 2008

You're getting good advice here. Get a flash ASAP and shoot in manual mode with iTTL on the flash. I'd go iso 400 on you D50 and let the iTTL do it's thing. You will be impressed with how well the camera is able to adjust the power output of your flash. This is one area that Nikon has really done very well.

Some other pointers:
iTTL works best with AF-s mode.
Use a single focus reticle and move it around so that it is placed on the facial skin of the subject. This helps the iTTL power the flash appropriately.
Do not exceed f8. For some reason, iTTL does not perform well at fll and above.

I just shot my office holiday party this weekend. Good times had by all and the photos are fun for everyone to enjoy after the event. Mine was during the day so I shot with two bodies. One rigged with flash SB800 and one rigged with a fast lens (85mm, f1.4) for some natural light shooting.

catspaw · December 10, 2008

pathfinder, Mitchell, Scott - et all --

GREAT stuff in here and I've been reading and linking and researching. Alas, BofA decided to play 'lose the check' with me on an entire month worth of income :cry so I had to settle with getting a soft on-body difuser/shade to make the on body flash less harsh. I'll still be picking up a flash - or two! since reading more about how you can slave them and trigger remotely and all the other most awesome stuff, I'm

and excited to see how this can help with more semi-candid photography (eg. a setting where photos are expected but not posed).

THANK YOU!

Qarik · December 11, 2008

body flash

bounced off ceiling hot shoe flash

you can't bounce the body flash and/or diffuse it well

pathfinder · December 11, 2008

When using a hot shoe flash on your camera, a bounce diffuser is a great thing to have, and you can make one very cheaply and easily.

catspaw · December 11, 2008

pathfinder wrote:

When using a hot shoe flash on your camera, a bounce diffuser is a great thing to have, and you can make one very cheaply and easily.

alas, I followed that link from one of your older posts, but it's been edited out. I'm not sure WHAT it was supposed to look like or be, but I did get a difuser for last night just to minimize the glare/starkness a bit.

And after a while, the whole 'open bar' concept had me no longer caring about how well the photos turned out. They took their jobs serious, those bartenders. 'rum & coke' was RUM with a dribble of coke. or none at all.

Oof. it was a good party :ivar

catspaw · December 11, 2008

Qarik wrote:

body flash

bounced off ceiling hot shoe flash

you can't bounce the body flash and/or diffuse it well

never said you could bounce it, but you can diffuse it a bit so it's not killing your contrast so badly. In this case, I had no choice. Yes I want to get a hotshoe flash and plan on two in fact, but alas, the funds weren't there for it yesterday when I needed them. I'm cursing many a plague upon the house of BofA. :splat grrrrr.

pathfinder · December 11, 2008

I see that the link I thought I posted has been removed from that thread

Googling 'Better Bounce Card You Tube' pops up the right link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNCmuExlHvM

I keep one of these on my flash at all times.

I do not use the rubber band he describes, but use a flat velcro strap ( the garden stores sell them ) or a Honl Speed Strap which is a very nice commercial version that is much more useful and durable than a large rubber band.

How many good gadgets can you find for photography for $10 bucks anyway?

When is on body flash vs. a hotshoe flash needed?

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