Setup info

Nikolai · December 23, 2008

I got a series of questions via PM, and thought I would answer here:-)

Can you detail for me how you setup your studio? I see you have alienbee lights which I intend on purchasing soon.

How many lights do you use? Why do you face them the way you do?

I use six ABs (4xAB800 + 2xAB400) and two ProFotos Compact-R (1x600 + 1x300). If push comes to shove, I can also add my Sunpacks and 580EXII to the mix, thus bringing the total number of lights to 11 (:-), but so forth I never had a need to do that (although I still might for the highkey scenario, which I never had a chance to implement properly yet).

I also have a 5-in-1 oval 3'x4' reflector/diffuser and two large DIY flags, which I use to block the rim lights and thus avoid the glare.

My ABs have a variety of modifiers: barndoors, grids, softboxes, etc. When you buy AB lights you get a nice discount on accessories, so I kinda went ballistic on those :-)

Depending on the particular project needs I can use any particular number of lights, but thus far the maximum was 7, wich would include:

ProFoto 600 with 7' octabox as main/fill
AB800 with 20 degree grid as a key/face light
Two AB800 with 2'x4' grided softboxes as rim lights
AB800 with 2'x3' grided softbox on the boom as a hair
Two (gelled) AB400 as backdrop lights

I typically set the main/fill to get even f/4, and then set the rest to get f/5.6. The backdrops can be set to whatever power, depending on the thickness/darkness of the gels and the effect I need.

You have a very high ceiling from what I can tell. What, do you live in a castle?

Yes, I am lucky to have a "cathedral ceiling". My house is a two story one, and the front room, which is used a s studio, spreads through its entire height, thus ranging from 10 feet at the threshold to 22 feet at the far end of the room, over the length of 22 feet in between. This allows me to use both vertical (no reflection from the ceiling) and horizontal space (I can use 70-200 inside:-) to the full extent.
I must say: both height and distance are extremely important. I would not be able to get the results I'm getting now if I had a considerably smaller space.

I understand your backdrops are bedding materials? That's what I use too. I have a large collection of sheets with different prints and a few blankets but no real "backdrops" Do you recommend I keep doing what I do with that regard or should I invest in proper backdrops?

For the "jungle room" - yes. For the main one it's just a long stretch of black 90" wide fabric which I can use as is, of highlight with gels or accessories with the hanging chiffon. All of the fabric was purchased in the famous LA fabric district.
As to the bedheets vs "real" backdrops... For me it's budget/"bang for the buck" question. The real ones are pretty expensive, so buying in bulk would be cost-prohibitive, at least for me. And I would personally hate the idea of using the same pattern over, and over, and over again... With the cheap bedkits (or pieces of chiffon) I can get a large variety, so at least I can change them often. And of course, gels allow for creation of virtually unlimited color combinations, so even the same chiffons or sheets can magically change the color if I put a different filter on the backdrop light.

You're a canon shooter, right? How do you have your lights setup to interface with your rig?

Yes. Currently 50D + 40D, anxiously saving to 5D2 :-)
I have 5 PWs (2 old receivers, and 3 new trancievers). ProFotos have a PW receiver built in, ABs are either optically slaved or can use a PW with a simple mini-to-mini cable.
Plus lightmeter of course - it would be a pain to build a complex light field without one. I'm using the cheapest Sekonic flashmate, I think it's LS-308. Works well enough :-)

HTH

DI-Joe · December 23, 2008

Absolutely amazing Nikolai! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer all of my questions. You shoot with just a 50d and 40d? That's pretty cool. I don't know much about the 50D, but you seem to make it work well.

Any basic rules of thumb you can add about your lighting setup? I've been a strobist kinda guy for a long time, using off-camera flashes(fleet of 430EX's and 1 580EX II which btw is controllable and configurable by the 5D2... it's joyous!)

How exactly are you lighting your backdrop? I think that's one of the things that gets me the most when working with backdrops... Thanks again!

Nikolai · December 23, 2008

DI-Joe wrote:

Any basic rules of thumb you can add about your lighting setup? I've been a strobist kinda guy for a long time, using off-camera flashes(fleet of 430EX's and 1 580EX II which btw is controllable and configurable by the 5D2... it's joyous!)

How exactly are you lighting your backdrop? I think that's one of the things that gets me the most when working with backdrops... Thanks again!

I must confess that I really have almost no experience using speedlites in studio environment. I got hooked on sunpacks and PWs before I got my first dlsr. I used 580 once or twice but decided it's not worth the hassle.

Rules of thumb are fairly basic, IMHO.

Isolate the model from the backdrop.
Build the lighting field from the ground up, starting with the faintest ones first and adding more powerful ones later.
Don't shoot too close, unless going for artistic/special effect.
Almost never shoot from the eye level, go lower or higher. 99% of my shots are done with me being on my knees or on a 3-step ladder.

As to the lighting backdrop... Not sure I understood the question...

I just point the lights (gelled mostly) on it?

clemensphoto's · December 24, 2008

Nikolai, this is some great information! Would it be possible to get some more photos of your studio setup? It would be kind of neat to start a thread for setting up studios (cost effectively)!!

Nikolai · December 24, 2008

clemensphoto's wrote:

Nikolai, this is some great information! Would it be possible to get some more photos of your studio setup? It would be kind of neat to start a thread for setting up studios (cost effectively)!!

You're welcome!

If you search for my posts with the word "tease" in them, you'll find plenty :-)

Ann McRae · December 24, 2008

Thank You, Nik. Would you outline your on location set up too? The Kirby Cove and the Tied House one? Please?
ann

Nikolai · December 24, 2008

Ann McRae wrote:

Thank You, Nik. Would you outline your on location set up too? The Kirby Cove and the Tied House one? Please?
ann

Ann,
I thought you of all people saw those with your own eyes

But, as always, your wish is my command

Outdoors I mostly use my two sunpacks due to their light weight and compactness. Each being powered by a cartridge with 6 AA batteries (I use Maha PowerEx rechargeables) and triggered with a PocketWizard.
Midday I mostly use sun as a rim/hair light (i.e. having it in front of the camera, behind the model), however occasionally I simply use the sun as the main light.

In first scenario (sun as a rim/hair) my sunpacks are in front of the model, either together,

or on different sides of the model/camera.

Most typically at a 45 degree angle and slightly above the model, although there are many exceptions, depending on the location, pose, desired effect, etc.

During the sunset I often switch to the diagonal position of the lights, as shown here:

Indoor location shooting is typically more studio like. This is where I switch to studio strobes, AlienBees most often. Usually the time/space limitations do not allow for the full-blown setups, Tied House was one bright example: I had less than 40 minutes to set things up and a tiny nook with a low ceiling in the corner of the room to work with. So while I brought several lights with me I only used two AB800 units. One with 2'x4' grided softbox to the camera left as a main and another on a boom with 2x3 grided softbox as a hair, positioned high and behind the subject, slightly to the camera right. I don't think I have the pictures of this setup myself, but I vaguely remember someone posted an image or two from that event where this setup can be seen rather clearly.

HTH

pathfinder · December 24, 2008

Nik, you said you use a lightmeter to set up your shots.
But since the Sunpaks are manual, I bet you know how far your are going to set your main and fill lights before your start ( or at least have a pretty good idea )

If you use the sun for a rim light, then you want your main light to at least match it in intensity, don't you?

So do you really meter each set up, or do you know what flash to subject distances you are going to use in sunlight before you start?

Nikolai · December 24, 2008

pathfinder wrote:

Nik, you said you use a lightmeter to set up your shots.
But since the Sunpaks are manual, I bet you know how far your are going to set your main and fill lights before your start ( or at least have a pretty good idea )

If you use the sun for a rim light, then you want your main light to at least match it in intensity, don't you?

So do you really meter each set up, or do you know what flash to subject distances you are going to use in sunlight before you start?

Jim,
I'm not sure I totally understand...

Yes, sunpacks are manual. And yes, lightmeter is a great help when you have multiple light sources. And yes, I usually match the ambient outdoor light and the flashes somehow (note, I'm not saying I making them equal).
Naturally, I meter the flashes at the actual or assumed distance (at least approximately), and then if I change it, either re-meter or make an adjustment. Sunpacks have a convenient f-scale for manual settings, and since both f-scale and the light fading are following the same "inverse square" rule, once you gain a little experience you don't have to use the lightmeter *every* time.
Did I answer your concerns or missed them altogether?

pathfinder · December 25, 2008

Yes You did,

Once you know what flash to subject distance is about equal to sunlight, then you can use the inverse distances to adjust your exposure rather than remeter each shot. That was what I suspected in my previous post. Thanks.

Nikolai · December 25, 2008

pathfinder wrote:

Yes You did,

Once you know what flash to subject distance is about equal to sunlight, then you can use the inverse distances to adjust your exposure rather than remeter each shot. That was what I suspected in my previous post. Thanks.

Oh, I see... This is actually a tricky thing... When you shooting with strobes outdors and the sun is in the hair/rim position there are not one, not two, but THREE things to consider/meter, and they require THREE different methods of measuring.

The first one is the simplest: incident light from the flash(es). Just set up the lights and use the lightmeter in the flash mode where you want it, naturally paying the most attention to the face area.

The second one is the rim/hair from the sun. Also use the lightmeter, but in ambient mode and measure reflected light from the skin (usually neck/shoulders area) while being really close to it.

The last but definitely not least is your background. Here lightmeter (almost) cannot help you since it's too imprecise. However, your camera can actually do the job just fine. Simply frame the shot, zero in your exposure and read the settings. Quite often the setting sun can be in your frame, in which case you need to exclude it, by either blocking it with your finger or by reframing in a way that sun is not in the frame, but the area if the sky is lit the same way as your target frame.

HTH

Quitarita · December 27, 2008

great info!
Hi there!

Thank you so much for the information and examples. I'm in the infancy stage of lighting set ups. I have just barely started playing with off-camera flash with my 580 flash and 2' attached cord.

I want to buy a light or 2 and dont' know if I should start out with video lights or strobe lights. I like to shoot events like weddings but also do portraits too.

What would you recommend I start with? I was thinking of starting with a Lowel video light (portable): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/185677-REG/Lowel_ID_01_ID_Light_Focus_Flood_Light_.html

But I've also thought about getting one AB to start with.

Can you tell me which sunpak lights you have?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Nikolai · December 27, 2008

Quitarita wrote:

Hi there!

Thank you so much for the information and examples. I'm in the infancy stage of lighting set ups. I have just barely started playing with off-camera flash with my 580 flash and 2' attached cord.

I want to buy a light or 2 and dont' know if I should start out with video lights or strobe lights. I like to shoot events like weddings but also do portraits too.

What would you recommend I start with? I was thinking of starting with a Lowel video light (portable): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/185677-REG/Lowel_ID_01_ID_Light_Focus_Flood_Light_.html

But I've also thought about getting one AB to start with.

Can you tell me which sunpak lights you have?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Unless you *really* info video I don't recommend getting "video" (aka "hot") lights.
Sunpacks and ABs are very different. One is battery powered another requires AC or something like Vagabond power brick (accumulator + inverter). Sunpacks are a bit cheaper initially, but if you're any serious about studio portraiture you would need something like AB (at least) eventually anyway, so you may end up having both.
My Sunpacks are 555, but they are out of production, what you can get now is this.
No matter what path you choose, as a rule of thumb, initial investment in a decent two-light setup is gonna cost you about $1,500 (if you count stands, lightmeter, triggers, cords, modifiers, some backrop/racks, etc.)

Quitarita · December 27, 2008

Nikolai wrote:

Unless you *really* info video I don't recommend getting "video" (aka "hot") lights.
Sunpacks and ABs are very different. One is battery powered another requires AC or something like Vagabond power brick (accumulator + inverter). Sunpacks are a bit cheaper initially, but if you're any serious about studio portraiture you would need something like AB (at least) eventually anyway, so you may end up having both.
My Sunpacks are 555, but they are out of production, what you can get now is this.
No matter what path you choose, as a rule of thumb, initial investment in a decent two-light setup is gonna cost you about $1,500 (if you count stands, lightmeter, triggers, cords, modifiers, some backrop/racks, etc.)

Yeah, I'm preparing to drop the money. Gulp.

Can you tell me why you would have and use both the Sunpaks and ABs? This may be a really basic question, but that's where I'm at. Why wouldn't you use your ABs for outdoor shots? Why wouldn't you use Sunpaks indoors? I'd like to buy just one set.

Btw, would two 580's work instead of the Sunpaks?

Do you have a workshop coming up anytime soon or do you do any one-on-ones?

Thanks so much!

Nikolai · December 27, 2008

Quitarita wrote:

Yeah, I'm preparing to drop the money. Gulp.

Can you tell me why you would have and use both the Sunpaks and ABs? This may be a really basic question, but that's where I'm at. Why wouldn't you use your ABs for outdoor shots? Why wouldn't you use Sunpaks indoors? I'd like to buy just one set.

Btw, would two 580's work instead of the Sunpaks?

Do you have a workshop coming up anytime soon or do you do any one-on-ones?

Thanks so much!

As I explained earlier in this thread, sunpacks (or similar off camera flash units) provide very lightweight solution for the location setup. When I shoot outdoors I often shoot in a hard to get places, where carrying every extra pound poses a real problem. They also do not require external power.

ABs are great when you don't have to hike and have AC power readily available.

You don't have to have both. It's simply what do you plan to do what defines what you need.

I know people use speedlights as external source, but I'm not keen on that solution. I find them too weak for the outdoor work (at least here in sunny California), and their "sleep" mode drives me nuts. But that's me.

Workshop is coming, hopefully this Spring.

Quitarita · December 27, 2008

Nikolai wrote:

As I explained earlier in this thread, sunpacks (or similar off camera flash units) provide very lightweight solution for the location setup. When I shoot outdoors I often shoot in a hard to get places, where carrying every extra pound poses a real problem. They also do not require external power.

ABs are great when you don't have to hike and have AC power readily available.

You don't have to have both. It's simply what do you plan to do what defines what you need.

I know people use speedlights as external source, but I'm not keen on that solution. I find them too weak for the outdoor work (at least here in sunny California), and their "sleep" mode drives me nuts. But that's me.

Workshop is coming, hopefully this Spring.

Sign me up for your workshop!

I've got some thinking and testing to do...

Have you ever successfully used your Sunpaks indoors?

Nikolai · December 27, 2008

Quitarita wrote:

Sign me up for your workshop!

I've got some thinking and testing to do...

Have you ever successfully used your Sunpaks indoors?

There will be anouncement, just watch it:-)

Sunpacks indoors: yes, for three years. But unless you plan on serious hiking, I'd go with AB solution. You will become limited with sunpacks *very* soon.

clemensphoto's · December 27, 2008

Nikolai/Quitarita - great info/feedback. Nikolai the workshop that you are talking about are they on location or are they conducted on the form?

Nikolai · December 27, 2008

clemensphoto's wrote:

Nikolai the workshop that you are talking about are they on location or are they conducted on the form?

In a hotel meeting room (or whatever other adequate place I will be able to find) + a little on location (for sunset/sunrise).

Quitarita · December 27, 2008

Nikolai wrote:

There will be anouncement, just watch it:-)

Sunpacks indoors: yes, for three years. But unless you plan on serious hiking, I'd go with AB solution. You will become limited with sunpacks *very* soon.

Ok, so I checked out the AB website and quickly became overwhelmed. I've never heard of a ring flash!

!

Can you recommend a nice entry level set up? I like to be able to do hair lights.

Gracias!

Nikolai · December 28, 2008

Quitarita wrote:

Ok, so I checked out the AB website and quickly became overwhelmed. I've never heard of a ring flash! !

Can you recommend a nice entry level set up? I like to be able to do hair lights.

Gracias!

Trust me, you don't need a ring flahs, it's overrated...
The important thing with the lights is to have a clear vision of where you wnat to be in the future and then start building that setup step-by-step, light by light. Worst thing you can do is to get a el cheapo kit and then get stuck with it. Just like with the camera brand, with lights you have to buy into a system.
And, as I mentioned earlier, there is no good yet cheap way into studio lighting.

Setup info

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