Keywords

W.W. Webster · August 1, 2013

On my trial 'new' site, less than 10% of the keywords on my legacy site are displayed on the Keywords page. They're all still there, including at the foot of images on new gallery pages, just not showing up on the new Keywords page.

What's the reason for this? Is it just a bug?

mbonocore · August 2, 2013

Hi,

Can you give me an example of a keyword or two you believe should be populated into this list? We do have a limit on the number of keywords we display, but it should be 250.

Thanks!

Michael

W.W. Webster · August 2, 2013

mbonocore wrote: »

Can you give me an example of a keyword or two you believe should be populated into this list? We do have a limit on the number of keywords we display, but it should be 250.

Hi Michael

You mean examples of my keywords? Well, "26th street" and "abstract" are two examples of keywords that exist on my legacy site but don't show on the Keywords page for my preview site, even though they appear under specific images in preview site galleries.

But what's with this 250 limit, anyway? Who decided that, and when, and why? Is this yet another downgrading of the specification of the new SmugMug (akin to the 300 image limit in individual galleries that's being spoken of)?

I've got 100s of keywords on my legacy site which all show on my Keywords page there, and why shouldn't I? Please don't tell me along with being forced to migrate to the new Todd-AO and Cinemascope presentation themes that, hitherto, I can't have all the keywords I used to have, and that SmugMug will arbitrarily decide which of my keywords will survive!

pelzmann · August 2, 2013

So, is that the top 250 keywords, or some random selection ?

Well, if you don't display all keywords, I would still expect that any keyword should be useable in selecting images for a gallery.
Unfortunately, that does not work either.

W.W. Webster · August 2, 2013

From my example, it looks random, but I don't accept there must be a limit. Why must SmugMug go backwards? Isn't making images findable across the net what it's all about?

Allen · August 2, 2013

mbonocore wrote: »

Hi,

Can you give me an example of a keyword or two you believe should be populated into this list? We do have a limit on the number of keywords we display, but it should be 250.

Thanks!

Michael

Are you referring to the keyword box on the homepage? I think the legacy site had a limit also.

But, what about the site keyword page using this link /keyword ?

Only about a 1/10 of my keywords show on that page. Being logged in I should see some KW's from
private galleries also, but none showing.
Edit: In added widget I do see a couple from PW'ed galleries. Box says limit is 255.

W.W. Webster · August 2, 2013

I don't keyword images in private (non-public) galleries - what's the point?

There was certainly no 250 keyword limit previously. Go to my site and click "Keywords" in the nav bar!

Allen · August 2, 2013

W.W. Webster wrote: »

I don't keyword images in private (non-public) galleries - what's the point?

There was certainly no 250 keyword limit previously. Go to my site and click "Keywords" in the nav bar!

I KW all my relatives and see the KW's when logged in. Some day Smug might add the keyword cloud
of PW'ed galleries to the site cloud when the gallery KW is entered so visitors can see them. This would
make a lot of families and Pro's clients happy.

I just counted my KW's and have 883 on legacy site.

WinsomeWorks · August 2, 2013

W.W. Webster wrote: »

I don't keyword images in private (non-public) galleries - what's the point?

There was certainly no 250 keyword limit previously. Go to my site and click "Keywords" in the nav bar!

You must have an "All Keywords" page on your old site like I do. In fact, I have both.... the guys are in fact correct... on the typical Keyword Block that most people were able to show on a page in the Old Smug, the limit was (still is in Legacy) 255 keywords. That doesn't mean you can't use more than that on your site-- I'm sure I'd have over 1000 unique ones. But if you wanted to display ALL of your keywords on a page, there was a different way to go about that. I don't even recall how I did it, but it's either in my CSS or HTML or something... I used the Advanced Customization.

Here are my pages so you can see what I mean-- My custom-made All keywords page is here: http://www.winsomeworks.com/keyword (can take a sec to load cuz it shows ALL my keywords!) and the 255 "Top Keyword" page (what I called it in my NavBar) is here: http://www.winsomeworks.com/keywords . As you can see, the link for the first is singular, and the link for the 2nd is plural-- keyword / keywords. That was a SmugMug thing, not my choice. I just linked my NavBar to it & called it what I wanted on my NavBar. Oh, and as to the question "How do they choose my keywords?" in the 255 block-- They choose the 255 keywords you use the most, so it changes from time to time of course. It's a strange number. You'd think they could make it 500 and it wouldn't essentially change anything about SmugMug's workings, but idk... I mean it's not like it takes up a whole page or anything. But a lot of people used that block with other blocks on the same page as I did, so I guess they were trying to keep it small-ish.

Here's one possibility why some keywords aren't showing up: I learned in the past year or so that the limit to what keywords get actually registered in the system (i.e. "indexed") is only 30 per photo. This was unfortunate for me, because I do stock photography & many of those sites allow 50 words, which I often had. So lots of times, the last 1/3 of my keywords on each photo are not indexed here on Smug. I usually try to list them by most important ones first, but that's not always possible without work, & in that case, not worthwhile here.

With all the shenanigans that have transpired in the transitions, with galleries & subcategories' orders & other stuff getting all switched around, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if keywords have been switched around too. Who knows if the first 30 keywords of your photos are getting indexed, or the last?! etc... and they may even still be indexing. There was also supposedly the fact (at first, at least) that semi-colons weren't being recognized as valid separators. But from a screen-shot Andy showed me, it's possible they've re-decided that in favor of allowing them. I hope so! Other than all that, I can't think what may be causing some keywords to not show except all the private / public / hidden messes still getting sorted out. Hope you figure it out, & hope I've been of help! [ETA: Yep, I just checked your site, W. W. Webster (sorry I didn't earlier) and your link shows /keyword, which means you customized & linked your NavBar to the page that displays every keyword you've used. ]

W.W. Webster · August 2, 2013

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

Hope you figure it out, & hope I've been of help! [ETA: Yep, I just checked your site, W. W. Webster (sorry I didn't earlier) and your link shows /keyword, which means you customized & linked your NavBar to the page that displays every keyword you've used. ]

Thanks for taking the trouble to provide such a comprehensive response, albeit with your understandable caveats. You've given me plenty to follow up, which I will do in the next day or so and report back.

Thanks again!

southeasternphotography · August 3, 2013

Still want ALL keywords
Have been trying to track this down on all the "keyword" threads and no one seems to have come up with a solution for the NEW SmugMug. Kudos for getting it to work in the legacy system! I have not unveiled yet, so, you can't see my list. Created a page and used the "keyword cloud" (only option listed) to enter the keyword list. Isn't the cloud limited to 255 words, too? My link says http://southeasternphotography.com/keywords. Then linked to it in my Menu options (Home, Browse, Search, Keywords). The keyword command does take me to that page BUT ALL my keywords do not show up.

WinsomeWorks · August 3, 2013

southeasternphotography wrote: »

Have been trying to track this down on all the "keyword" threads and no one seems to have come up with a solution for the NEW SmugMug. Kudos for getting it to work in the legacy system! I have not unveiled yet, so, you can't see my list. Created a page and used the "keyword cloud" (only option listed) to enter the keyword list. Isn't the cloud limited to 255 words, too? My link says http://southeasternphotography.com/keywords. Then linked to it in my Menu options (Home, Browse, Search, Keywords). The keyword command does take me to that page BUT ALL my keywords do not show up.

If I paste this in my browser: http://www.southeasternphotography.com/keyword (no "S" on "keyword") I get a page that appears to have all your keywords on it (not that I'd know for sure, but there are gazillions!!) So if you can find a way to link it on your new site, maybe the same way you linked the 255-keyword page, you should be able to make it accessible to people. [ETA: I don't know if there are still ways to change the colors & all that in the new site unless they allow HTML somewhere, but I'd have the hope anyway that there would be something that would change the colors if you don't want plain B&W.]

KeithH · August 4, 2013

I can only get fifty of mine to show up even though I known I must have at least 300 or so keywords.

southeasternphotography · August 4, 2013

WinsomeWorks - think I answered this on another thread where you also responded. When I click the link with /keyword (no "s" at end) I only see 50 keywords.....not gazillions. Wonder why you see them and I don't. Same kind of issue KeithH has in the post above this reply.

pbandj · August 4, 2013

southeasternphotography wrote: »

WinsomeWorks - think I answered this on another thread where you also responded. When I click the link with /keyword (no "s" at end) I only see 50 keywords.....not gazillions. Wonder why you see them and I don't. Same kind of issue KeithH has in the post above this reply.

I think WinsomeWorks sees them because you haven't unveiled. So when she's looking at your "keywords" link it's pointing to legacy smugmug. You, if you're using your preview site, are looking at new smugmug...

So presumably this works (no limit) in legacy smugmug but maybe they've added a limit in new smugmug. I'm thinking you should enter a feature request in the new feature requests second of the forum. Though it's unclear to me whether this is a bug or something smugmug did on purpose...so not sure if it's a bug report or feature request needed.

Allen · August 4, 2013

pbandj wrote: »

... I'm thinking you should enter a feature request in the new feature requests second of the forum. ...

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=237468

ablichter · August 4, 2013

southeasternphotography wrote: »

WinsomeWorks - think I answered this on another thread where you also responded. When I click the link with /keyword (no "s" at end) I only see 50 keywords.....not gazillions. Wonder why you see them and I don't. Same kind of issue KeithH has in the post above this reply.

I see gazillions as well, but it seems its the old style? Not sure what we are talking about here...

If you were working on the new style and often switch between new and old, try to clear your browser cache. Might be the issue here.

There is no /keywords link for your site.
Regarding the gazillions of keywords: half of them are numbers and useless, forgive me.

I am pretty sure no one will search for "07561" or "d2919". For searchers in Google it would make no sense, since they will become tons of other images presented, and even in here (SM) d2919 appears as ~120 of 199 images.
Those numbers makes your keyword list unreadable (no one scrolls three pages of keywords), are often redundant (dingdarling 0553 has also the keywords "ding darling" and "dingdarling") and they are pointing to a single image only.

southeasternphotography · August 4, 2013

Ok, I have not unveiled, so y'all are probably seeing the legacy site. As to the "numbers" in the keywords, this is because of how SmugMug used to automatically parse the image filenames and added them to the keyword list - which was pretty dang annoying. After numerous complaints, they stopped doing that and added a checkbox for those that DID want to have the filenames in the list. I guess I need to go through 20,000+ images and remove those...................

Actually, I DO have a Menu keyword link in my NEW site which says "http://southeastern-photography.smugmug.com/Keyword". You are right, I do not have one in the legacy site and I am afraid to make modifications there anymore to see what y'all are seeing (all the numbers).

I have two accounts on my Mac, one for me and one for my wife. I try to look at the legacy site not logged in on my wife's account and I use mine to look at the NEW site logged in. Switching to my wife's account, and selecting something in the unlogged in legacy account, it sometimes brings up renditions of the NEW account. I then go to the upper right and click on the "ME" icon and logout. When I do that, it takes me back into my legacy account and it runs normally again (for awhile). So, there are some cross-referencing issues when having both the legacy account and the Preview account on SmugMug. Weird stuff.

WinsomeWorks · August 5, 2013

ablichter wrote: »

I see gazillions as well, but it seems its the old style? Not sure what we are talking about here...

If you were working on the new style and often switch between new and old, try to clear your browser cache. Might be the issue here.

There is no /keywords link for your site.
Regarding the gazillions of keywords: half of them are numbers and useless, forgive me.

I am pretty sure no one will search for "07561" or "d2919". For searchers in Google it would make no sense, since they will become tons of other images presented, and even in here (SM) d2919 appears as ~120 of 199 images.
Those numbers makes your keyword list unreadable (no one scrolls three pages of keywords), are often redundant (dingdarling 0553 has also the keywords "ding darling" and "dingdarling") and they are pointing to a single image only.

[ETA: Sorry for the redundant post; southeasternphotography just explained some of this same thing in a cross-post!] These types of keywords (especially the numbers beginning with D) are almost undoubtedly a SmugMug thing (glitch, bug or other issue) where the system started automatically adding those for a time. I've had that in the past too, and when I noticed, I went in and un-did some of them manually. Nikon filenames use D and a number like what you gave:d2919. If I recally correctly, for a time, when SmugMug first implemented a "generate-keywords-from-filenames" thing, they set it to "On" by default for some silly reason, and lots of this happened. Some of it was never caught by the site owners. It must have happened on certain types of galleries now & then since, because as I said, I've now & then found a batch of such keywords, even though I have that function turned off site-wide. Other stuff has happened from time to time with SmugMug generating keywords it's not supposed to, so we can't assume it's the owner adding all these weird ones.

ablichter · August 5, 2013

WinsomeWorks wrote: »

These types of keywords (especially the numbers beginning with D) are almost undoubtedly a SmugMug thing (glitch, bug or other issue) where the system started automatically adding those for a time.
[...]
Other stuff has happened from time to time with SmugMug generating keywords it's not supposed to, so we can't assume it's the owner adding all these weird ones.

I see, thanks. Later I found the button in the new design as well and understood what it was meant to be "good" for.
Yepp, you have lots of numbers in your All Keyword list as well, but the Top 255 list looks much better

SM must believe people who are "keywording" their images with "speaking names" like "mama_at_the_beach_sun_burn_12_07_2011.jpg" would like such a feature.
Sorry if stepping on someones feet.

WinsomeWorks · August 5, 2013

ablichter wrote: »

I see, thanks. Later I found the button in the new design as well and understood what it was meant to be "good" for.
Yepp, you have lots of numbers in your All Keyword list as well, but the Top 255 list looks much better

SM must believe people who are "keywording" their images with "speaking names" like "mama_at_the_beach_sun_burn_12_07_2011.jpg" would like such a feature.
Sorry if stepping on someones feet.

Well, I suppose there are lots of people who don't bother keywording the usual way, and this can work for them to find their own photos if they don't mind all the "litter". But yeah, it's pretty messy for lots of us. Sometimes it's handy to be able to find photos by year that way, though. A lot of my numbers are years, and I want them there especially because I photograph a lot of classic cars and all centuries of architecture as well. Sometimes I want to find all the photos of a car or building from one era, etc.

The other thing you see on my "All Keywords" page is a bunch of numbers that are actually product numbers. I have a gallery of furniture store products from a relative's store. So the store uses an embedded slideshow on their website (which my spouse set up for them) and people can click on it, come back to SmugMug, view the large photo & write down the number of the piece of furniture they want. It looks a mess in my keywords but I do get a lot of traffic from that store's site & it's quick & easy for their customers. Sadly, this feature (embeddable slideshows) is supposedly not available in the new Smug. Hard to figure, as it's a wonderful feature & isn't even that old... plenty of people were probably just finding out that it's available! And it can bring SmugMug a lot of traffic. Why would they drop it? NO clue.

RonD200 · August 5, 2013

Anybody using the Keyword Cloud? There seems to be a bug on some computers. I have it on my search page and it looks fine on both my desktop and laptop. When I checked it out on two computers at work today, instead of the cloud I just have a long vertical list of keywords on the left hand side of the page. Not sure what the requirements are to see the cloud but it doesn't do much good to add the cloud if a lot of computers can't see it.

ablichter · August 5, 2013

RonD200 wrote: »

Anybody using the Keyword Cloud? There seems to be a bug on some computers. I have it on my search page and it looks fine on both my desktop and laptop. When I checked it out on two computers at work today, instead of the cloud I just have a long vertical list of keywords on the left hand side of the page. Not sure what the requirements are to see the cloud but it doesn't do much good to add the cloud if a lot of computers can't see it.

No problems so far. You should try updating Java (or Flash, not sure here) on the computer where you encounter the problems.

And maybe you should let us see your cloud.

southeasternphotography · August 5, 2013

Basically, according to multiple threads concerning the keyword programming, it would appear that the keyword programming is pretty messed up. Some see a 255 key limit and a 1000 image limit being found per the keyword search. Even with the max keyword setting set for the 255 limit, some users are only seeing 50 keywords. There are other issues reported. However, when doing a DATE search, it may be find ALL matches per date. Did a year date search and it found 3034 images and all were viewable. So, I know they can do it (remove the 1000 limit!).

RonD200 · August 5, 2013

Yeah at home it looks fine, and sure I can update Java on the two computers at work, if the cloud is a java app, but what I'm worried about is all the people that come to my site that don't meet the requirements to view the cloud, the display looks terrible just a long list on the left hand side that runs from the top of the screen to the bottom.

ablichter · August 5, 2013

RonD200 wrote: »

Yeah at home it looks fine, and sure I can update Java on the two computers at work, if the cloud is a java app, but what I'm worried about is all the people that come to my site that don't meet the requirements to view the cloud, the display looks terrible just a long list on the left hand side that runs from the top of the screen to the bottom.

Ron, in order to help or to confirm, can you show us your cloud?
I can see none at your actual site.

RonD200 · August 5, 2013

ablichter wrote: »

Ron, in order to help or to confirm, can you show us your cloud?
I can see none at your actual site.

If you go to my "Search" page the Cloud is positioned above the search box, I see it at home on both my desktop and laptop. On my computers it's right in the center of the screen. I have the layout set to stretchy.

ablichter · August 5, 2013

RonD200 wrote: »

If you go to my "Search" page the Cloud is positioned above the search box, I see it at home on both my desktop and laptop. On my computers it's right in the center of the screen. I have the layout set to stretchy.

Looks as it should be here on my computer, with IE, Chrome and FF.
Same on my netbook - both W7 64bit.

RonD200 · August 5, 2013

ablichter wrote: »

Looks as it should be here on my computer, with IE, Chrome and FF.
Same on my netbook - both W7 64bit.

Yeah looks good on my computers too, but the computers at work just display a column of Keywords on the left side of he screen, not sure why. One is running XP and the other Win 7. I wonder if it's some security issue with our network at work?

ablichter · August 5, 2013

southeasternphotography wrote: »

Basically, according to multiple threads concerning the keyword programming, it would appear that the keyword programming is pretty messed up. Some see a 255 key limit and a 1000 image limit being found per the keyword search. Even with the max keyword setting set for the 255 limit, some users are only seeing 50 keywords. There are other issues reported. However, when doing a DATE search, it may be find ALL matches per date. Did a year date search and it found 3034 images and all were viewable. So, I know they can do it (remove the 1000 limit!).

I saw you complaining about that in almost any thread around.
We have to distinct here: the normal /keyword page/link seems to be unpredictable and only shows 12, 100, 42, 50 or 101 keywords. This might be a bug.

The -> Content Block -> Discovery -> Keyword Cloud only supports max. 255 keywords. I feel this is much more than I (and people = customers) need.

Why would you need more than say 500 keywords visible on your site? I am pretty sure a list with more than 500 keywords does not good to customers, respectively creates more irritation than it would help you to sell.

ablichter · August 5, 2013

RonD200 wrote: »

Yeah looks good on my computers too, but the computers at work just display a column of Keywords on the left side of he screen, not sure why. One is running XP and the other Win 7. I wonder if it's some security issue with our network at work?

Yeah might be a security, or as said - a java or flash - issue.
Don't check in a company - the people in there are usually not your customers. Check in an Internet Cafe or normal computer connected to the internet.

Your site is fine.

Keywords

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