What is the greater risk

joshhuntnm

I read where some Wedding photogs didn't like using big cards for fear that they will fail. If you put 16 gb on 8 2gb cards, if one fails, at least you have the rest.

That makes sense to me, except for this--it seems it greatly increases the chances that you will loose a card.

What is the greater risk--loosing a card, or a card going bad? which is the safer route, to have one big (32gb?) card or a bunch of 2 gb cards?

darkdragon

In my experiance, I'm most likely to lose a card then have one error on me.

I've lost 3 CF cards this year :cry

Never had a card error on me in all the years I've been using flash ram cards (from XD, SD, CF, even Micro SD and others)

nipprdog

joshhuntnm wrote:

What is the greater risk--loosing a card, or a card going bad? which is the safer route, to have one big (32gb?) card or a bunch of 2 gb cards?

No offense, but are you serious??????

Hellooooo, don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

What happens if you lose the card that has all of the pics.

nipprdog

..........

Art Scott

I have never lost a card......................yet........I have had cards go belly up and did not even know it......however with the excellent recover software provided by Lexar I have been able to recover all photo files...so in essence I have never lost a photo file due to flash memory failure...........I am currently knocking on some solid oak to help ward off the file corrupting demons.:D

I curently use 2gb and also 8gb CF cards.......would I want to start using the 32 gb that are availble......no that is just too tempting to nver change a card out.......I cn shoot a whole wedding on 1 8gb card....but I am not a machine gunner....my shots are very thought out and I know pretty much before i arrive what I will shoot........since I use 2 bodies at all times I also use 2 cards.....I always have my KM A2 and 2 - 2gb cards just in case the DSLR's should die together.....God forbid.......

joshhuntnm

nipprdog wrote:

No offense, but are you serious??????

Hellooooo, don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

What happens if you lose the card that has all of the pics.

My thought is, get a 16 gig card and you never have to pull it out. Hard to loose it if it is in the camera. If that is not enough, use a 32.

I have never had a card fail; i have come pretty close to losing one.

Awais Yaqub

In my whole life card never failed
Used sony Memory sticks with no error since 2004, and SanDisk Extreme 3 2 GB in 400d and no error except when it is full i cannot shoot more photos

joshhuntnm

Awais Yaqub wrote:

In my whole life card never failed
Used sony Memory sticks with no error since 2004, and SanDisk Extreme 3 2 GB in 400d and no error except when it is full i cannot shoot more photos

And have you noticed they fill at up at very inoportune times?

ziggy53

It is a very real fact of life that flash memory cards, of any make or manufacture or form-factor, can and will fail. The manufacturers rate operating endurance in "Mean Time Between Failure" (MTBF). Most standard grade cards seem to be rated at around 1 million hours MTBF, and industrial versions are between 3 and 4 million hours MTBF. While that seems to be an incredible amount of time those figures are optimal and projected, not measured.

Actual performance for an individual card depends on electrical/electronic cycles of use, operating temperatures, physical shock and stress, electrical stresses including surges and even insertion-removal cycles.

It is also a very real fact-of-life that memory cards can be lost. It's true that using a singular card should help to mitigate that risk, but it does not remove the risk from theft or destruction, which also happens.

I do prefer to amortize the risk and possible loss by using multiple cards, however I like to use both 2 and 4 Gig cards (just because that's what I currently have.)

evoryware

I've never had a card fail, but I've accidentally deleted all. Fortunately wasn't a wedding. With my current cams largest I would go is 8gb. Smallest 2gb.

Manfr3d

If you shoot professionaly for money, the risk is that
you could be held liable for the loss of images. Thinking
further: If you loose a card it is only your fault. If your
card goes kaputt (during warranty) it is the card
manufactuers fault and you are not responsible.

Only you can decide if you want to risk loosing cards
more or if you want to risk loosing more images. It is
a tradeoff decision.

My personal preference is to shoot with two cameras
each using a card that accepts between 200-400 images.
It is unlikely that both cards fail at the same time, and if
one card fails the images on the 2nd camera will allow me
to mostly cover up any context holes in the shootings series.

Some shooters use a film drop pouch to store full cards:

LowePro has one as does ThinkTank.

jeffreaux2

All of my cards are either 2 or 4 gig. I shoot RAW so I get a bit over 100 images per 2 gig card. I have a system that works for me utilizing my pants pockets, a cf wallet, and a rubber band. I have never lost a card...or had one die on me. It is a worry that is always at the back of my mind!

ian408

You won't lose cards if your process is the same every time you swap the cards. Work on the process so that you do it the same every time. Number your cards so that you don't accidentally format and re-use the card. You could come up with a number scheme that helps you know when you bought the card.
Something like 20080719001 would tell me that was the first card I bought on JUly 19, 2008. You can use a CF card holder (or SD) that is double sided and move cards between sides too.

The point is, develop a process that works for you and continue to use it and the chances are good you will not lose cards.

With most things, MTBF only says what they believe the lifetime to be. If it's 3 million hours, that doesn't help if yours fails in 100 or 1000 or 1000000. Consider shooting with 2 cameras and multiple cards.

Scott_Quier

I've not had a card fail me yet, but I trust my process and procedures a lot more than I do card manufacturers. For example:

• I use only 2GB cards (and about twice as many as I've ever used at a gig) which, in my 30D cameras, gives me about 200 RAW images (I don't do RAW+jpg) per card. I have four 4GB cards that I hold in reserve or provide to my second shoot if they are using a 40D - they need the extra storage as a 2GB card is just stupid small in 40D.
• I never format a card in the field.
• All unused cards go into a right-hand side velcro sealed vest pocket.
• I never delete an image from a card. Not in the field. Not at home. Never.
• When a card is about 80% full, I remove it from the camera and place it in a left-hand side velcro sealed vest pocket. Once in that pocket, cards NEVER come out until I get home.
• Cards always go from the right pocket to the camera to the left pocket.

That's my system and it works quite well for me. I've not yet lost a card or an image. The point is that each photographer needs to develop their own process and procedures. Never vary from them. Evaluate them if a glitch appears and modify them if one deems it appropriate/necessary.

There are at least two reasons I don't use larger cards:

• The larger cards have slower write times, at least in the 30D cameras, and I sometimes need all the data throughput I can get.
• With larger cards - just too many eggs in one basket - I start to get a little twitchy.

claudermilk

I have not had any card failures either. However, I keep using smaller cards for the same last two reasons Scott mentioned: the larger cards are slower (my one 4GB card is noticeably slower than the 2GB ones, and gets worse as it nears full), and I subscribe to the "eggs in one basket" fear. For me 2GB is the sweet spot, enough space to work with for a reasonable time, enough throughput to get the job done, and not too big to make me nervous.

joshhuntnm

if airplane crashes offer any insight, I think the vast majority of airplane crashes are human error. if failure is measured in failures per million hours of use, then I trust the machines better than I trust myself. I just bought a 16 gb card. I will have my old 2 gb and 4gb cards in the bag, but i don't think i wll go much beyond 16 gb. if it never comes out of the camera, it is not likely I will lose it.

Joves

I have not had a card fail yet (knocking on my head) but, did get a bad one new. It wouldnt format or, store any images. So I took it back and got a working one. I like to format and, test in the parking lot. It saves alot of time.

NeilL

It's a relevant question all right. I've been feeling inferior because I have only a few 2GB Scandisk Extreme III and wondering should I compensate with a blockbuster!

Thinking about it, if you have a disciplined system of removing cards from the cam to a specific pocket in a bag, or cupboard or drawer or shelf, suitably labeled, and returning them there after transferring files, and loading them again from that spot into the cam - then you are in complete control of what can be controlled.

The reliability of a card is something nothing can control.

Complete control over smaller cards is the go, I reckon. Any failure and your losses are minimised.

Neil

ian408

joshhuntnm wrote:

if airplane crashes offer any insight, I think the vast majority of airplane crashes are human error. if failure is measured in failures per million hours of use, then I trust the machines better than I trust myself. I just bought a 16 gb card. I will have my old 2 gb and 4gb cards in the bag, but i don't think i wll go much beyond 16 gb. if it never comes out of the camera, it is not likely I will lose it.

If you trust machines more than yourself, why place all your eggs in the 16g basket? What if you push the delete button and instead of one, you delete all images on the card? What if you switch the camera on and the card fails?

With multiple cards, I would be trying to protect against the worst case scenario and that is the one where you can recover no images on the card. In that case, you will be left with (hopefully) your second shooter's images and nothing else.

darkdragon

joshhuntnm wrote:

if airplane crashes offer any insight, I think the vast majority of airplane crashes are human error. if failure is measured in failures per million hours of use, then I trust the machines better than I trust myself. I just bought a 16 gb card. I will have my old 2 gb and 4gb cards in the bag, but i don't think i wll go much beyond 16 gb. if it never comes out of the camera, it is not likely I will lose it.

I almost got one of those! I don't find the speed any different using different size cards of the same brand/model. I am currently going with 4 - 4GB and 1 - 8GB Sandisk Extreme III cards and Loving them.

If you don't have one yet (assuming you went with the 16gb sandisk) you should get a Sandisk Extremem USB or Firewire reader, it will make a big difference in downloading the pics to your computer.

Download time is the only reason I haven't gone with a card larger than 8GB. I can dump that card in about 10 mins or so with USB reader, but if I want to dump the pics on somone elses machine or using a generic or built-in reader - it would take me an hour just for the 8gb.

jonh68

Something to consider in regards to card failure is accidental formatting. I shot all day for the newspaper and then it was time to download the images. The last person to use the computer didn't trash their card and it was a different manufacturer all together( Kodak vs my Canon). The computer didn't recognize the Canon so it formatted for Kodak. All my images were gone. Fortunately, a disk recovery program rescued my images. Your computer can have some affect on your card as well.

darkdragon

jonh68 wrote:

Something to consider in regards to card failure is accidental formatting. I shot all day for the newspaper and then it was time to download the images. The last person to use the computer didn't trash their card and it was a different manufacturer all together( Kodak vs my Canon). The computer didn't recognize the Canon so it formatted for Kodak. All my images were gone. Fortunately, a disk recovery program rescued my images. Your computer can have some affect on your card as well.

:jawdrop wow, that would have made me very angry with the last person to use the computer.
I've never heard of a computer automatically formatting something, but if that happend to me, things would get broken. :beatwax

Its just a great thing that the recovery program worked.

geospatial_junkie

I have about 8 4GB cards. I won't use anything larger because I know from experience what can happen and will eventually happen. I have lost cards because of this because I've misplaced them as well.

I'm sticking with this system because I like to be prepared just in case something happens. Be careful about using just one card though, especially when shooting in extremely hot or cold temperatures as the card is more likely to fail.

My day job involves knowing the technical side of these cards as we use them in all our mapping trimble and mobile GIS units. Do not use one card unless you can abslutely be sure that no dirt or moisture can get in. Our units are sealed via waterproof liners and screws. Most camera's I've seen are lacking in this department.

As far as failing because of memory corruption or connector issues, I've never had this happen, but I'm sure it will at some point.

Art Scott

jonh68 wrote:

Something to consider in regards to card failure is accidental formatting. I shot all day for the newspaper and then it was time to download the images. The last person to use the computer didn't trash their card and it was a different manufacturer all together( Kodak vs my Canon). The computer didn't recognize the Canon so it formatted for Kodak. All my images were gone. Fortunately, a disk recovery program rescued my images. Your computer can have some affect on your card as well.

Wow really auto format......that shoud be disabled...violently, very violently.....I use both lexar and transcend with an external reader (usb) and have never had my computer even ask if i wanted to format.....all that is totally manual on my system and I am now so greatful that it is.........

geospatial_junkie

All cameras and cell phones take cards are formated in FAT32 or just FAT and computers now want to format in NTFS. If you must format in the computer make sure you change the file system to the appropriate file system. I would never recommend for someone not experienced with this though, to format on the computer. Format from the in-camera menu and save yourself the hassle.

ziggy53

My father lost a card this last winter season and we believe it was due to static electricity. Since the card was working properly in the camera, chimping was on, and the card did not read in a reader just afterwards, something happened as a result of, or at least susequent to, removing the card.

Everything on the card is permanently lost as the card could not be accessed either in 2 readers or back in the camera.

Stuff happens.

geospatial_junkie

So true...

ian408

Art Scott wrote:

Wow really auto format......that shoud be disabled...violently, very violently.....I use both lexar and transcend with an external reader (usb) and have never had my computer even ask if i wanted to format.....all that is totally manual on my system and I am now so greatful that it is.........

It's not really automatic though the system, when it detects certain devices have been attached, will prompt you for an action to take. In most cases, the default action you take should be "none".

jonh68

ian408 wrote:

It's not really automatic though the system, when it detects certain devices have been attached, will prompt you for an action to take. In most cases, the default action you take should be "none".

Our apples are ancient by any standard and I wasn't given an option, it just did it. The problem was photomechanic still had the kodak contact sheet up. When it tried to fill the sheet with Canon pics, it just decided to format the card to fit with the best info it had.

jonh68

ziggy53 wrote:

My father lost a card this last winter season and we believe it was due to static electricity. Since the card was working properly in the camera, chimping was on, and the card did not read in a reader just afterwards, something happened as a result of, or at least susequent to, removing the card.

Everything on the card is permanently lost as the card could not be accessed either in 2 readers or back in the camera.

Stuff happens.

I have had problems with a card not registering through the USB connection. Usually, unplugging and plugging back in works, or pulling the card out and re-inserting. However, there was one time I pulled it out when it was in the middle of being detected.

Fortunately, Rescue Disk recovered the files. This was also on the old apples.

Vycor

Ive never had a card fail, then again, ive shot one event, a bar mitzvah.

I had 1 2GB card at the time, and everytime i filled it, i went to my laptop and downlaoded it.

Now, i have bigger cards, but i'd recommend you bring a laptop or some kinda drive that you can download copies of the photos to. This way, you have 2 copies should one fail. Its a wedding, you can't re-do a wedding (or i should say, lets hope nobody hasta). One shot thing, and its big (one reason i refuse to shoot weddings, im just NOT there yet as far as my capabilities, im not a pro at events)