My first engagement shoot

PeterGar · April 19, 2005

My sister-in-law got engaged yesterday. She's asked me to shoot their engagement photos. I'm looking for some advice. I plan to rent an L-series lens to use on my 300D. The photo shoot will be outdoors and most likely around late afternoon/sunset. Perhaps at the beach.

I'd like to keep this simple and as uncomplicated as possible.

1. Which L-series lens should I rent?

2. Should I use a polarizing filter?

3. What other equipment should I rent?

4. What tips and tricks should would be helpful to know for shoot engagement photos?

Thanks!

DoctorIt · April 19, 2005

I have a general comment, I think taking on any new/unfamiliar equipment for a short period of time, especially when it counts is not such a great idea. Sure, if you are going on a one day bird safari and you don't have a long lens, then by all means, rent that 600mm. But I'm assuming you've been asked to do the job because your work to date has been good with your current equipment. Follow me there?

Just in my own experience, I've borrowed a fast fancy wide zoom at one point, and all my shots were lame as it was so much brighter. So while borrowing a lens doesn't take getting used to like a new body or something, there is still idiosynchrosies to everything.

And other equipment? Like lighting? If you've never used it, do you really think you'd figure it out in a short rental period? Not trying to sound smug, just being realistic and honest. Have faith in yourself, your good enough to have gotten the job, so keep up the good work.

After typing all this, I guess it would be worthwhile if you were renting stuff for a few days and could run some tests. But I'd run thorough tests, including post work as well to see how it affected my flow. It's all about the zen baby!

tmlphoto · April 19, 2005

The 24-70 f/2.8 would be a good single lens for that type of shooting I would think. You might consider a hot shoe mounted flash if you are planning on using fill flash shooting into the setting sun. (I'm not sure how well the built in flash on your 300D would handle this as I have no experience with that setup.) The lighting can be tricky at the beach at that time of day. I agree with the above statement about a dry run with the new equipment. If you haven't shot portraits in that particular light before, maybe you could find a willing subject and do a test run.

My only other advice would be to be prepared to change your settings as the light changes. Its easy to get distracted and not realize that the light has dropped quite a bit and your shutter speed is getting dangerously low. BTDT.
Good luck.

Shay Stephens · April 19, 2005

What equipment do you already have? I also agree that getting a bunch of new equipment can be non-productive unless you know exactly why you are getting it and what you will do with it once obtained.

I am all for challenging one's self, but, equipment will not make the shoot better for the most part. It's not something you can throw money at to solve.

1. Which L-series lens should I rent?
We first need to know what you already have. Chances are, you don't need anything fancy here.

2. Should I use a polarizing filter?
Why would you use a polarizing filter? My suggestion is usually to only use equipment when you have a need. If you don't know why or if you need something, you won't be able to make effective use of it, and would be better off without it. This is a question you should be able to answer yourself.

3. What other equipment should I rent?
Will you have any help with you? If so, a simple folding reflector works wonders as a fill light. Failing that, a hot shoe flash can help fill in the shadows. But even there, if you don't have experience with flash, it's not going to do you much good, flash around sunset can be tricky.

4. What tips and tricks should would be helpful to know for shoot engagement photos?
Focus on them, make them comfortable, get them to interact, look for beautiful settings and poses or situations. Work the shots, get landscape and portrait orientations, get closer, farther (zoom, wide angle) some with flash some without. This will get you something to work with and give you some broader experience too when you get back and see what worked and what didn't.

Don't give them every shot you take. Edit them down to the unique and great shots. This will make your work look much stronger and they will wind up with a higher quality result. Nobody like to weed through a bunch of junky shots to get to the good ones. So do them and yourself a favor by providing this service for them. It will also help train your eye as to what works and what doesn't so when you shoot like this again next time, you won't waste your time or effort doing the stuff that doesn't look good. This is also what helps define your style, which can sometimes take a while to reveal itself. But the harder you are on yourself in the shot selection process, the sooner you will get there.

PeterGar · April 19, 2005

DoctorIt wrote:

I have a general comment, I think taking on any new/unfamiliar equipment for a short period of time, especially when it counts is not such a great idea. Sure, if you are going on a one day bird safari and you don't have a long lens, then by all means, rent that 600mm. But I'm assuming you've been asked to do the job because your work to date has been good with your current equipment. Follow me there?

Just in my own experience, I've borrowed a fast fancy wide zoom at one point, and all my shots were lame as it was so much brighter. So while borrowing a lens doesn't take getting used to like a new body or something, there is still idiosynchrosies to everything.

And other equipment? Like lighting? If you've never used it, do you really think you'd figure it out in a short rental period? Not trying to sound smug, just being realistic and honest. Have faith in yourself, your good enough to have gotten the job, so keep up the good work.

After typing all this, I guess it would be worthwhile if you were renting stuff for a few days and could run some tests. But I'd run thorough tests, including post work as well to see how it affected my flow. It's all about the zen baby!

Thanks for the insight. Essentially, I'm not looking to bite off more than I can chew, nor need to chew. My biggest concern is that I only own the DRebel kit lens which, although I'm still learning to use it for all it can do, I'm not happy with its sharpness. Also, its an 18-55mm lens. Shouldn't I use a longer lens for portraits than 18-55mm?

As for lighting, all I have is the built-in flash. I wonder if a reflector would be helpful to just give me a little addtional light.

I know I won't have a lot of time to learn to use the rental lens and/or reflector before the shoot, but I want just that little bit extra that will do two things:

1. Give me some experience with a better lens and lighting

2. Make my sister-in-law's engagement portraits a little better than they would be with only the lens and built-in flash I own.

PeterGar · April 19, 2005

tmlphoto wrote:

The 24-70 f/2.8 would be a good single lens for that type of shooting I would think. You might consider a hot shoe mounted flash if you are planning on using fill flash shooting into the setting sun. (I'm not sure how well the built in flash on your 300D would handle this as I have no experience with that setup.) The lighting can be tricky at the beach at that time of day. I agree with the above statement about a dry run with the new equipment. If you haven't shot portraits in that particular light before, maybe you could find a willing subject and do a test run.

My only other advice would be to be prepared to change your settings as the light changes. Its easy to get distracted and not realize that the light has dropped quite a bit and your shutter speed is getting dangerously low. BTDT.
Good luck.

Thank you. I've experienced the quick darkness during sunset at the beach, and the results of forgetting to change speed settings. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

PeterGar · April 19, 2005

1. Which L-series lens should I rent?
We first need to know what you already have. Chances are, you don't need anything fancy here.

The only lens I already have is the DRebel kit lens, an 18-55mm EF-S lens.

2. Should I use a polarizing filter?
Why would you use a polarizing filter? My suggestion is usually to only use equipment when you have a need. If you don't know why or if you need something, you won't be able to make effective use of it, and would be better off without it. This is a question you should be able to answer yourself.

I ask only because I'd like to get the saturation of the sky and water that I understand a polarizer provides. I suppose I can also do this in post.

3. What other equipment should I rent?
Will you have any help with you? If so, a simple folding reflector works wonders as a fill light. Failing that, a hot shoe flash can help fill in the shadows. But even there, if you don't have experience with flash, it's not going to do you much good, flash around sunset can be tricky.

Yes, my wife will be helping. I'm thinking of using a reflector. The only flash I own is the built-in DRebel flash.

4. What tips and tricks should would be helpful to know for shoot engagement photos?
Focus on them, make them comfortable, get them to interact, look for beautiful settings and poses or situations. Work the shots, get landscape and portrait orientations, get closer, farther (zoom, wide angle) some with flash some without. This will get you something to work with and give you some broader experience too when you get back and see what worked and what didn't.

Don't give them every shot you take. Edit them down to the unique and great shots. This will make your work look much stronger and they will wind up with a higher quality result. Nobody like to weed through a bunch of junky shots to get to the good ones. So do them and yourself a favor by providing this service for them. It will also help train your eye as to what works and what doesn't so when you shoot like this again next time, you won't waste your time or effort doing the stuff that doesn't look good. This is also what helps define your style, which can sometimes take a while to reveal itself. But the harder you are on yourself in the shot selection process, the sooner you will get there.

Thanks!!!

Shay Stephens · April 20, 2005

1. Which L-series lens should I rent?
We first need to know what you already have. Chances are, you don't need anything fancy here.

The only lens I already have is the DRebel kit lens, an 18-55mm EF-S lens.
You can do the entire shoot with this lens. Wide angle to portrait. If I were to suggest any lens it would probably be the 100mm f/2.8 macro. Good portrait lens, wide aperture, great macros, and affordable. Not to mention, it has a 58mm lens thread, just like the 18-55mm, important as noted in the next response.

2. Should I use a polarizing filter?
Why would you use a polarizing filter? My suggestion is usually to only use equipment when you have a need. If you don't know why or if you need something, you won't be able to make effective use of it, and would be better off without it. This is a question you should be able to answer yourself.

I ask only because I'd like to get the saturation of the sky and water that I understand a polarizer provides. I suppose I can also do this in post.
Ok, this is good. You know what it will do for you, so I say use it. You can't effectively get the same results in post as you can with a properly used polarizer. But here is a catch. They are not one size fits all, if you get one, you will have to use it on the lens it fits, unless you pick up a lens that has the same filter thread size (unlikely if you get an L lens).

3. What other equipment should I rent?
Will you have any help with you? If so, a simple folding reflector works wonders as a fill light. Failing that, a hot shoe flash can help fill in the shadows. But even there, if you don't have experience with flash, it's not going to do you much good, flash around sunset can be tricky.

Yes, my wife will be helping. I'm thinking of using a reflector. The only flash I own is the built-in DRebel flash.
Excellent, then a nice white/gold reflector will be ideal. Have her hold it so that the couple has some fill light in the shadows, and your photos will have a richer studio look to them. Practice this technique first so you both get a feel for it.

So your kit lens, camera, a reflector, polarizer, imagination, assistant, and a desire to do a good job are all you really need. You could add the 100mm macro lens to get some varety, but you don't have to. Just practice in similar conditions before the shoot.

PeterGar · April 20, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

1. Which L-series lens should I rent?
We first need to know what you already have. Chances are, you don't need anything fancy here.

The only lens I already have is the DRebel kit lens, an 18-55mm EF-S lens.
You can do the entire shoot with this lens. Wide angle to portrait. If I were to suggest any lens it would probably be the 100mm f/2.8 macro. Good portrait lens, wide aperture, great macros, and affordable. Not to mention, it has a 58mm lens thread, just like the 18-55mm, important as noted in the next response.

2. Should I use a polarizing filter?
Why would you use a polarizing filter? My suggestion is usually to only use equipment when you have a need. If you don't know why or if you need something, you won't be able to make effective use of it, and would be better off without it. This is a question you should be able to answer yourself.

I ask only because I'd like to get the saturation of the sky and water that I understand a polarizer provides. I suppose I can also do this in post.
Ok, this is good. You know what it will do for you, so I say use it. You can't effectively get the same results in post as you can with a properly used polarizer. But here is a catch. They are not one size fits all, if you get one, you will have to use it on the lens it fits, unless you pick up a lens that has the same filter thread size (unlikely if you get an L lens).

3. What other equipment should I rent?
Will you have any help with you? If so, a simple folding reflector works wonders as a fill light. Failing that, a hot shoe flash can help fill in the shadows. But even there, if you don't have experience with flash, it's not going to do you much good, flash around sunset can be tricky.

Yes, my wife will be helping. I'm thinking of using a reflector. The only flash I own is the built-in DRebel flash.
Excellent, then a nice white/gold reflector will be ideal. Have her hold it so that the couple has some fill light in the shadows, and your photos will have a richer studio look to them. Practice this technique first so you both get a feel for it.

So your kit lens, camera, a reflector, polarizer, imagination, assistant, and a desire to do a good job are all you really need. You could add the 100mm macro lens to get some varety, but you don't have to. Just practice in similar conditions before the shoot.

Thank you very much! Not only have you given me the technical advice I was looking for, you gave me the confidence I need to do this without freaking-out too much

DoctorIt · April 20, 2005

PeterGar wrote:

Thanks for the insight. Essentially, I'm not looking to bite off more than I can chew, nor need to chew. My biggest concern is that I only own the DRebel kit lens which, although I'm still learning to use it for all it can do, I'm not happy with its sharpness. Also, its an 18-55mm lens. Shouldn't I use a longer lens for portraits than 18-55mm?

I think Shay already answered your questions, but don't underrate that lens, it's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

PeterGar · April 20, 2005

As for using a reflector, if I have to choose just one, what color should it be? White, silver, or gold? Can I get by just using white posterboard or cardboard?

Shay Stephens · April 20, 2005

If I had to choose only one, it would be white. And it can be anything you can manage to handle. White foamcore would be stiff enough to handle in a breeze for example. The folding types (e.g. photoflex) are convenient, but not needed.

PeterGar wrote:

As for using a reflector, if I have to choose just one, what color should it be? White, silver, or gold? Can I get by just using white posterboard or cardboard?

pathfinder · April 21, 2005

tmlphoto wrote:

The 24-70 f/2.8 would be a good single lens for that type of shooting I would think. You might consider a hot shoe mounted flash if you are planning on using fill flash shooting into the setting sun. (I'm not sure how well the built in flash on your 300D would handle this as I have no experience with that setup.) The lighting can be tricky at the beach at that time of day. I agree with the above statement about a dry run with the new equipment. If you haven't shot portraits in that particular light before, maybe you could find a willing subject and do a test run.

My only other advice would be to be prepared to change your settings as the light changes. Its easy to get distracted and not realize that the light has dropped quite a bit and your shutter speed is getting dangerously low. BTDT.
Good luck.

I just finished reading this whole thread and everything Shay has said is invaluable. I am not a people shooter by trade, so take this with a grain of salt. I tend to favor TML's suggestion of the 24-70 L. I do use the 100 f2.8 macro and the 24-70 f2.8 L, and if I was going to shoot a wedding for a friend, I would choose the 24-70 f2.8 L over the 100 macro, because of its greater versatility and the ability to zoom, which can be great help in shooting candids and portraits.

On a 300D, the 100 macro may be just a lttle long in the focal length. If you were shooting 35 mm full frame, I might agree more closely with Shay then about a 100mm lens.

One other suggestion you might consider, is renting or borrowing a 580EX to use in lieu of the in camera flash. The improved quality of the exposure algorithms and the bounce ablity of the 580EX will be visible in your images, compared to the built in flash. This might be a better choice than a different lens than your kits lens.

Shay Stephens · April 21, 2005

pathfinder wrote:

One other suggestion you might consider, is renting or borrowing a 580EX to use in lieu of the in camera flash. The improved quality of the exposure algorithms and the bounce ablity of the 580EX will be visible in your images, compared to the built in flash. This might be a better choice than a different lens than your kits lens.

You can't bounce when outside or at the beach

mercphoto · April 21, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

You can't bounce when outside or at the beach

You can with an attached bounce shield

While I am not entirely sure why, because I would think ETTL would deal with this, I get much better interior shots with my 580EX tilted up 45 degrees with the bounce shield extended. I don't entirely know what this changes. And often I get better results still with -2/3 FEC dialed in.

The FEC I can understand, as that is a subjective call on my part. What I don't get is how the ETTL works differently when bounced. Note that I have not tried not-bouncing and using FEL instead.

PeterGar · April 22, 2005

You guys are great! Thanks for all the advice. I love this place

Speaking of external flash units, I don't yet own one. I'm thinking of getting the 420EX. Should I pay the extra money and get the 580EX or is the 420EX good enough for someone at my level?

pathfinder · April 22, 2005

PeterGar wrote:

You guys are great! Thanks for all the advice. I love this place

Speaking of external flash units, I don't yet own one. I'm thinking of getting the 420EX. Should I pay the extra money and get the 580EX or is the 420EX good enough for someone at my level?

I think the 580ex is a significant improvement over the 420ex. I sold my 420ex after buying the 580. Depends on your budget of course.
The little white bounce shield on the 580 works pretty good - even outdoors, to help create a nice catchlight.
Shay is right that generally, bounce flash is only good inside buildings with an 8-10 foot high white ceiling. I assume some of your shots will be shot in an environment like this. Or are they all to be done at the beach? A bracket to get the off camera flash higher above the camera's lens axis will be helpful to prevent red eye also. That is why I don't care for the in camera flash for this use.

DoctorIt · April 22, 2005

I never had a 420ex, but my 580ex seems like the cats pajamas. It's way smart. Even my first time using it, I let it do most of the thinking and my results were very good. Also, if you ever get into needing more flashes, the 580 will be a must-have to function as the master.

bkriete · April 22, 2005

You could consider buying a 50/1.8...only around $70, and it will give you nice shallow depth of field for headshots when you don't want much background showing. It will also be useful to you whenever you are doing indoor shots down the line.

ubergeek · April 22, 2005

There's also...
There's also the very capable 550EX, which was the top of the line until the 580EX came along. With the current rebates on the 580EX, there's only a $60 price difference between the two. However, I'd bet that a lot of 550EX owners upgraded to the 580EX, meaning that there's likely to be a glut of 550EX's on eBay.

The 550EX, like the 420EX, lacks E-TTL II (note that it does support E-TTL), so if you've gotta have the latest and greatest, it just won't do. But since your 300D doesn't support E-TTL II anyway, it won't make a difference unless you eventually upgrade to a body that supports II.

Cheers,
Jeremy

PeterGar wrote:

Speaking of external flash units, I don't yet own one. I'm thinking of getting the 420EX. Should I pay the extra money and get the 580EX or is the 420EX good enough for someone at my level?

My first engagement shoot

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