Help with an system decision

whitleywhitley Registered Users Posts: 13 Big grins
edited July 22, 2008 in Cameras
I've just started shooting weddings regularly and need some assistance with building the foundation (and the future) of my photo bag. I currently have a Nikon D80 with a nikon 50mm 1.8 and a nikon 18-200 3.5-5.6 along with the sb-800 flash. Here's my dilemma. I really like the ergonomics and the light system of the Nikons but have heard so much about the Canon 5D image quality, I am considering switching. I had also considered the Nikon D300. To complicate things even further, I know that I need a backup body so my primary will become the 5D/D300 and the backup will be the D80 or perhaps a Canon body if I change systems...(D40?) I also plan to buy some pro glass in the near future so settling on a system is critical at this point. So, not to start a Nikon v Canon discussion...I need some advice. Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • tinfishtinfish Registered Users Posts: 50 Big grins
    edited July 21, 2008
    I can't speak for the Canon's, however I know they are great cameras, but the D300 is amazing. And in my opinion with it's performance at high ISO very ideal for wedding photography. I have one, so obviously I am biased. If you are not buying right away, the D700 might be an option as well.

    In addition. If you are wanting to keep your D80 as a back up; There will be no conflict with your glass and speedlight if you stay with Nikon.

    Deciding which new camera is always a nice problem to have!
    Jeff Harbin
    "Life of Riley" Photography
    www.lifeofrileyphotography.com
  • Miguel DelinquentoMiguel Delinquento Registered Users Posts: 904 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2008
    What's driving this decision?
    It seems to me that you are already invested in Nikon glass and have a capable basic camera and lighting system established. I'm just curious what is the requirement driving you to consider making such a significant change?
    I shoot neither brands, but have seen many shots from both the 5D and the D300. I cannot tell the difference in quality.
    Be sure not to overcomplicate your life and end up having to support both systems.

    M
  • whitleywhitley Registered Users Posts: 13 Big grins
    edited July 21, 2008
    More info
    Tinfish and Miguel -
    Thanks for your comments. I appreciate the insight. Miguel, to answer your question, I am just aspiring to get the highest quality photos that I can. I am still working on getting better at composition, lighting, etc but I want to make sure that the technology and equipment are the best I can afford in order to maximize my growth as a photographer. I just keep second guessing myself as many of the prominent wedding photogs swear by the 5D and the FX format.

    I should also mention that while I'm reinvesting all of my "profits" from my photographic work into the system I'm building, I do have a finite amount of money to spend which is why I was considering the 5D over a D700. I was considering backing off on a generation of lenses to the AF 80-200 2.8 vs the AF-S or the 70-200 2.8 VR version. I had also considered getting the 35-70 2.8 on the shorter end. Should I wait to get the latest and greatest? Are they worth the $700 per lens premium?

    Thanks again
  • Miguel DelinquentoMiguel Delinquento Registered Users Posts: 904 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2008
    At a certain point it's not the tools
    You know, your tools are fine right now, and your approach to learning seems very sane. Focus on the latter, as what others shoot with is irrelevant. The tools thing is marketing driven to an extent. Their strategy is to make you feel inadaquate and insecure unless you get their camera/lenses/lights. As your career grows you will acquire and dispose of wonderful stuff, but make sure you control the pace and budget of that.
    Have you ever posted any work in the Whipping Post?
    heh heh.

    M
    whitley wrote:
    Tinfish and Miguel -
    Thanks for your comments. I appreciate the insight. Miguel, to answer your question, I am just aspiring to get the highest quality photos that I can. I am still working on getting better at composition, lighting, etc but I want to make sure that the technology and equipment are the best I can afford in order to maximize my growth as a photographer. I just keep second guessing myself as many of the prominent wedding photogs swear by the 5D and the FX format.

    I should also mention that while I'm reinvesting all of my "profits" from my photographic work into the system I'm building, I do have a finite amount of money to spend which is why I was considering the 5D over a D700. I was considering backing off on a generation of lenses to the AF 80-200 2.8 vs the AF-S or the 70-200 2.8 VR version. I had also considered getting the 35-70 2.8 on the shorter end. Should I wait to get the latest and greatest? Are they worth the $700 per lens premium?

    Thanks again
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2008
    ne_nau.gif i have a 5d and i would rather not use that for weddings if i could help it. (but i dont do those...im just sayin...)

    i do some sports and the fps is really a killer, go for fps......
    Aaron Nelson
  • swintonphotoswintonphoto Registered Users Posts: 1,664 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2008
    The 5D is a bit long in the tooth. No question it is a fantastic camera. However, I shoot weddings every week and I REALLY appreciate the crop sensors for the added telephoto capabilities in a slightly smaller package. The 5D does not have this. I would go for the D300 if I was you. However, the D80 is an extremely capable camera. How is it limiting you?
  • TangoTango Registered Users Posts: 4,592 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2008
    another point...go for more glass and maybe another d80 for back-up
    Aaron Nelson
  • HarrybHarryb Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
    edited July 21, 2008
    Since you are willing to consider a systems switch you might want to wait a bit. Wait for the D700's release and hopefully the 5D update. You'll have the opportunity to choose from two outstanding full frame cameras.
    Harry
    http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
    How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
  • whitleywhitley Registered Users Posts: 13 Big grins
    edited July 22, 2008
    Glass suggestions
    another point...go for more glass and maybe another d80 for back-up

    Regardless of the system, I see a backup body as critical. Do you have recommendations on glass? Are you suggesting I should I opt for another D80 with the latest nikon pro glass or a D80 with the lenses I mentioned earlier (35-70 2.0, 80-200 2.8) with some primes.
  • whitleywhitley Registered Users Posts: 13 Big grins
    edited July 22, 2008
    More on my motivation
    I think it's more about getting a sharper image and while the D80 is a great camera, I seem to always want more sharpness, clarity and color rendition. The raves over the 5D image quality (and the lower price point for an FX sensor) is my main motivation for considering that particular Canon body.

    I have to admit, the D300 is a very inviting alternative, especially for its higher ISO capabilities. I was just concerned about the DX sensor giving less sharp images.

    The 5D is a bit long in the tooth. No question it is a fantastic camera. However, I shoot weddings every week and I REALLY appreciate the crop sensors for the added telephoto capabilities in a slightly smaller package. The 5D does not have this. I would go for the D300 if I was you. However, the D80 is an extremely capable camera. How is it limiting you?
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited July 22, 2008
    whitley wrote:
    I think it's more about getting a sharper image and while the D80 is a great camera, I seem to always want more sharpness, clarity and color rendition. The raves over the 5D image quality (and the lower price point for an FX sensor) is my main motivation for considering that particular Canon body.

    I have to admit, the D300 is a very inviting alternative, especially for its higher ISO capabilities. I was just concerned about the DX sensor giving less sharp images.

    Whitley,

    First, welcome to the Digital Grin. clap.gif

    There is nothing wrong with using the Nikon D80 as a wedding camera. I do suggest that images above ISO 800 may have more visible noise than is usually desirable for enlargements.

    The Nikon D300 is much better controlled in high-ISO noise and I suspect that for the ceremony itself, if you cannot use flash, the D300 would be preferential.

    The Canon 5D is a wonderful camera and it will probably have even less noise than the Nikon D300 especially in the deep shadow areas.

    Lenses will affect sharpness more than any modern dSLR body will. In particular look at constant aperture lenses of f2.8 or better and prime lenses of f2 or better. The reason these lenses tend to fare better is because:

    1) They tend to be of better design and manufacture (and higher cost.)

    2) The larger aperture makes it easier for the autofocus section of the camera to find prime focus, especially in poor light. (The larger aperture provides a greater differential between the edges of subjects with regard to foreground and background.)

    3) The larger aperture collects more light, effectively making your system more sensitive and capable in low light situations.

    4) The larger aperture lenses tend to produce better, more pleasing, "bokeh" (the quality of soft and diffuse background and foreground). This tends to help seperate the subject in the image from its surroundings.

    5) Most lenses tend to work better stopped down a bit. The larger aperture lenses tend to provide both the opportunity for shooting "usable" images wide open and then fantastic images stopped down a little, which are often still faster than "consumer" lenses.

    For instance, your 50mm, f1.8 should be producing usable images wide open and become amazingly sharp by f4.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • geospatial_junkiegeospatial_junkie Registered Users Posts: 707 Major grins
    edited July 22, 2008
    Also fixed aperture lenses (primes) have significantly less glass elements in their construction. This really helps maintain sharpness.
    "They've done studies you know. Sixty-percent of the time, it works every time."

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  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited July 22, 2008
    Also fixed aperture lenses (primes) have significantly less glass elements in their construction. This really helps maintain sharpness.

    The term "constant aperture" relates to zoom lenses which maintain a constant effective aperture thoughout their range of zoom.

    The term "fixed aperture" normally relates to certain very old and specialty lenses. (Some barrel lenses use a fixed aperture and most mirror optics are fixed aperture, as are microscope objectives.)

    Typical and common prime lenses, made in the last 70 years or so, use a variable aperture "diaphram" consisting of blades of either straight or curved design.

    Yes, most prime lenses have a simpler optic construction than most zooms.

    Modern prime lenses are usually of very high quality and typically have very good sharpness and contrast characteristics, but it has nothing to do with a "fixed aperture".
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited July 22, 2008
    If you are on a budget, I would suggest getting a D40 as backup, use it for the 18-200 and spend the money on better glass. I have the 80-200 2.8 and I use it for sports, but for indoor shots in bad light, having VR like the 70-200 2.8 would be a big help.

    The Canon 5D is rated sharper in side by side comparisons against the D3, D300. However, this is after having extreme crops that are not noticed for most normal sizes we will ever see. There is always going to be something better. Put your money in better lenses unless a camera comes out that makes your job easier or has specific features you need. If you spend $1700 on the 70-200 VR, you will get better pictures on your D80 than if you spent $1700 on a Canon 5D and a so-so lens.

    Whatever you do, I recommend having one camera system if you are on a budget. You need to have a backup, but if your Nikon goes down, your lenses will not be much help on the Canon and vice versa. If you go with two different systems, you will probably have to double up your lenses and focal lengths as well. If you decide to go Canon, sell your Nikon gear and get a Canon backup.

    If you go Nikon, the D300 would be a great choice and even better choice is the D700 as the high noise performance of that camera will allow you to negate somewhat the need of VR and will bring in older generation lenses in the picture in regards to shooting in low light.

    Still, you will get better pictures by spending money on better glass and if I were in your position, I would probably get a D40 for backup and spend the money on a 70-200 VR. This way, when your pictures look outstanding and you get more business, you will have more money to put towards a pro grade camera to match your pro-grade glass. Your most immediate need is a backup and you can go cheap with the D40 or get another D80. Backup is important if you are shooting events, especially weddings.

    Just don't get caught up in whatever everybody else is using. I know a photog for a newspaper who uses the company Canon pro grade equipment for his newspaper work, but uses a nikon D50 for weddings on the side. Remember: If your clients wanted the look of the guys with the other cameras, they would hire them and not you.
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