Help me improve this shot

Anselina Adams

how to improve shots like that? thanks for C&C!

colourbox

What is the goal of the shot? To show the sky, the old couple, or the dock? That will determine how it should have been shot.

Anselina Adams

Thanks!!Goal was to shot an old couple, plus a nice background, but all i have got is a mess <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/headscratch.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >
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colourbox

One idea would be to move the couple to the rail, position yourself so that there is nothing behind them except sky, and move in close so that they fill the frame, since right now they are only a small part of the picture. These moves would simplify the picture and emphasize the couple.

pyrtek

Are you talking about improving it in post-processing, or just generally
(which was addressed very well by colourbox)?

Anselina Adams

Thanks a lot.<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/iloveyou.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" > was talking generally.
What about camera settings? In this case which F/ISO works?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Anselina Adams

Second attempt looks like that, but something missing here too <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/headscratch.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" > <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/headscratch.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" > <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

dlplumer

Much much better. Better focus on the subject (it's a little soft), some black point enhancement/contrast, and it will pop.

Dan

colourbox

Anselina Adams wrote:

What about camera settings? In this case which F/ISO works?

In this case a wide open aperture could help (like f/4 or lower), or stepping back and using a telephoto. Both will put the background out of focus.

Another idea is to drop yourself closer to the ground. This will put their upper bodies in the sky and push down the distracting elements around them when you are shooting at eye level.

Anselina Adams

Thank you so much!

DavidTO

Anselina,

I edited the title of this thread, as "..." is just not nearly descriptive enough to be of any help to others.

Scott_Quier

Here are a couple of thoughts:

• Use some flash - the subjects are slightly back-lit by the bright sky
• One way or another, speed up the shutter to darken the sky a bit. This will do two things for you:
  1. Takes the focus of the shot off the sky and
  2. Will make the clouds a bit more dramatic
• Watch your background. Either move your subject, your camera, or both to make sure that the background isn't so busy that it distracts/detracts from your subject. The exception might be when you are doing an environmental portrait and the setting tells a portion of the story.

Anselina Adams

Scott_Quier wrote:

Here are a couple of thoughts:

• Use some flash - the subjects are slightly back-lit by the bright sky
• One way or another, speed up the shutter to darken the sky a bit. This will do two things for you:
  1. Takes the focus of the shot off the sky and
  2. Will make the clouds a bit more dramatic
• Watch your background. Either move your subject, your camera, or both to make sure that the background isn't so busy that it distracts/detracts from your subject. The exception might be when you are doing an environmental portrait and the setting tells a portion of the story.

Scott, thank you!

Scott_Quier

I should add that speeding up the shutter to reduce the impact of the sky will only work if you also (at the same time) keep the aperture and ISO unchanged from a "normal" exposure.

One way to do this is:

• Set camera to manual
• Meter for the sky
• Increase shutter speed
• Set flash level to just fill the shadows a bit - don't want the flash to be to obvious

I don't know if Av mode on the G7 works as it does on the G9 and the 20D/30D/40D cameras, but....

• Set your camera to Av
• Set metering mode to Evaluative
• Set Exposure Compensation to -1/2 to -1 stop (this will darken everything, including the sky)
• Set Flash Exposure Compensation to -1/2 (or so) - this will provide light to the subject, helping it to stand out from the background.

Now, take your shot, chimp, if necessary make adjustments and take another shot.

NeilL

Nice tech points, Scott! Thanks much!!clap

Neil

urbanaries

Scott_Quier wrote:

I should add that speeding up the shutter to reduce the impact of the sky will only work if you also (at the same time) keep the aperture and ISO unchanged from a "normal" exposure.

One way to do this is:

• Set camera to manual
• Meter for the sky
• Increase shutter speed
• Set flash level to just fill the shadows a bit - don't want the flash to be to obvious

I don't know if Av mode on the G7 works as it does on the G9 and the 20D/30D/40D cameras, but....

• Set your camera to Av
• Set metering mode to Evaluative
• Set Exposure Compensation to -1/2 to -1 stop (this will darken everything, including the sky)
• Set Flash Exposure Compensation to -1/2 (or so) - this will provide light to the subject, helping it to stand out from the background.

Now, take your shot, chimp, if necessary make adjustments and take another shot.

Ok, I'm going to bring light (heh) to my dense and limited brain power here. I struggle with these settings you've suggested above. It seems to me that underexposing both the ambient and the flash will result in....an underexposed photo. There are definitely times I want to underexpose the bg don't like the flashy look I'm getting, but I'm afraid to turn the FEC down for this reason. I am 100% confident you are correct in what you are saying, and that it is my ignorance that prevents me from understanding the logic.

geospatial_junkie

I wouldn't change the background so much as it adds context to the shot. There are some technical things I would have changed though such as positioning, aperture, etc... Here are my tries!




I like this crop myself as it doesn't detract the context, but the people are in the forefront.

Anselina Adams

geospatial_junkie: thank you very much. i really loved N2 cropped one looks much better then mine

geospatial_junkie

Personal opinion is that the sky should be included in this shot and that toning it down would do less for the photo than the opposite. You could really tone down the blown out portions of the sky if you wanted to take more time, this was done relatively quickly though with the use of red filtering for the sky and yellow filtering for everything else.

The background is a little busy and you could argue I guess that there is a pole growing out of the gentleman's head (there isn't much we can do about that thought!).:D

Anselina Adams

Scott_Quier wrote:

I should add that speeding up the shutter to reduce the impact of the sky will only work if you also (at the same time) keep the aperture and ISO unchanged from a "normal" exposure.

One way to do this is:

• Set camera to manual
• Meter for the sky
• Increase shutter speed
• Set flash level to just fill the shadows a bit - don't want the flash to be to obvious

I don't know if Av mode on the G7 works as it does on the G9 and the 20D/30D/40D cameras, but....

• Set your camera to Av
• Set metering mode to Evaluative
• Set Exposure Compensation to -1/2 to -1 stop (this will darken everything, including the sky)
• Set Flash Exposure Compensation to -1/2 (or so) - this will provide light to the subject, helping it to stand out from the background.

Now, take your shot, chimp, if necessary make adjustments and take another shot.

Scott, thanks again. i am struggling with manual settings, always getting underexposed photos. AV works fine on G7. it's almost same as G9. i will try to take into account your suggestions!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Anselina Adams

geospatial_junkie wrote:

The background is a little busy and you could argue I guess that there is a pole growing out of the gentleman's head (there isn't much we can do about that thought!).:D

In my defence this shot was very spontaneous.:D <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Scott_Quier

urbanaries wrote:

Ok, I'm going to bring light (heh) to my dense and limited brain power here. I struggle with these settings you've suggested above. It seems to me that underexposing both the ambient and the flash will result in....an underexposed photo. There are definitely times I want to underexpose the bg don't like the flashy look I'm getting, but I'm afraid to turn the FEC down for this reason. I am 100% confident you are correct in what you are saying, and that it is my ignorance that prevents me from understanding the logic.

Lynne - Check out this old thread. I've actually tested this and posted the results and you've actually read at least some of the thread.

Based on these results, it could be argued a number of different ways as the conditions aren't quite the same as in the OP's photos as my DW is actaully standing in the shade of a tree.

• EC at -1 and FEC at 0 or -1 will get you a pretty good shot
• EC at -1 and FEC at +1 will cause the subject to stand out a bit more. Then the question becomes one of how much "flashy" effect do you want in the photo.

But the clincher, I think, is the set of photos in post #9 where I've held the EC constant at 0.

In the final analysis, it's an understanding of what the camera is trying to do when you have FEC set to 0. In Av mode, the camera wants the flash to be only fill but, for my cameras at least, fill is just too much!

Edit: I just remembered this. In Av mode, when you apply EC, you are modifying the shutter speed. This has, I think, little if any effect on the flash (it has a mind of it's own ) so you control the ETT-L flash with the FEC.

Scott_Quier

Anselina Adams wrote:

In my defence this shot was very spontaneous.:D <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

That is no defense. You must carefully consider all aspects and variables that go into making a photo BEFORE you press the shutter! That's my story and I'm sticking to it. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/mwink.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" > <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/rolleyes1.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" > <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/deal.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >

geospatial_junkie

Scott_Quier wrote:

That is no defense. You must carefully consider all aspects and variables that go into making a photo BEFORE you press the shutter! That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Bang on Scott.

urbanaries

Scott_Quier wrote:

Lynne - Check out this old thread. I've actually tested this and posted the results and you've actually read at least some of the thread.

Based on these results, it could be argued a number of different ways as the conditions aren't quite the same as in the OP's photos as my DW is actaully standing in the shade of a tree.

• EC at -1 and FEC at 0 or -1 will get you a pretty good shot
• EC at -1 and FEC at +1 will cause the subject to stand out a bit more. Then the question becomes one of how much "flashy" effect do you want in the photo.

But the clincher, I think, is the set of photos in post #9 where I've held the EC constant at 0.

In the final analysis, it's an understanding of what the camera is trying to do when you have FEC set to 0. In Av mode, the camera wants the flash to be only fill but, for my cameras at least, fill is just too much!

Edit: I just remembered this. In Av mode, when you apply EC, you are modifying the shutter speed. This has, I think, little if any effect on the flash (it has a mind of it's own ) so you control the ETT-L flash with the FEC.

I do remember that thread, thanks for bringing it back to light! And you know I have to learn lessons a few times before they sink in. :hide

This post from LiquidAir in that thread (along with your very complete examples) makes it click for me (again).

Thanks as always, Scott!

Anselina Adams

geospatial_junkie wrote:

Bang on Scott.

Ok, I will think carefully before pressing the shutter:ivar . thanks for your help, hope my next shot will be better:curtsey

NeilL

... if only I could get myself to continue to think at all when I have my camera in my hand. It overawes me! huh

Neil

Scott_Quier

geospatial_junkie wrote:

Bang on Scott.

It was supposed to be a joke!! I don't know many who actually have it that tightly wound up that they can have it all in mind when they press the shutter release.