Sharing An Image From A Bodyscape / Light Study Series

Brody · August 4, 2008

As I said, I'm just sharing a photo from a Bodyscape / Light Study series I did - Comments welcome. I'm assuming the image is quite acceptable here because I've seen hundreds on Smugmug of this type, and this is milder than most, and I think quite tasteful. And it more than meets the museum test mentioned in the rules.

And Mr. DavidTO - I think you're the Boss / Moderator here, so write me a note if you have any feedback, or better yet, just stroll over for a beer - we live in the same town

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

John Brody

Darren Troy C · August 5, 2008

Striking image...beautiful!

...and I'm only asking b/c I can't really tell....is she wearing some kind of shear garment from her waist down? Looks like there is a very fine line of sorts beginning just @ the hips....doesn't look that way on the feet....maybe just to the tops of her legs? It may be the way the light is hitting her skin @ that particular angle.

Nonetheless, great image!

ChatKat · August 5, 2008

Idlewild wrote:

Striking image...beautiful!

Looks like there is a very fine line of sorts beginning just @ the hips....doesn't look that way on the feet....Nonetheless, great image!

That's the line from her undergarments....she should have had them off for at least a day to avoid a line at her waist.

I like the image composition. I'd clone out the little bit of line. There's a touch of discomfort in her position - a lack of naturalness. It's a bit dark for my taste.

There are quite a few here that are in TO. Are we having a gathering at B.J's or something?

evoryware · August 5, 2008

I don't fully understand what to look for in a "bodyscape" shot yet, but I can say that her back looks sculptured. I'd say nice pose and lighting.

NeilL · August 5, 2008

You’ve taken a lot of care with this shot, John. And though the subject’s back is to us, her commitment, to you and the image, comes through too. It’s a quality which no image of this genre can succeed without.

It’s the quality which makes it possible for viewers to approach the intimacy of the image without the feeling of intrusion and embarrassment. Or, in the case of your shot here, almost!

I say almost because for me your pic does not achieve enough of a sense of a solid, living body, and consequently of a person possessing it, but more of a loose assembly of body parts. And it is this impression of seeing parts of a body, including the intimate part of the buttocks, which causes a certain uncomfortableness in the viewing, for me, at least. The main impact on my eye is the concave curve of the spine, and that exists largely out of any context. Another example is the cleft of the buttocks. They float, isolated by shadow and the constriction of the waist, in their own emphatic lighting, with no connection even to what they are supported by.

For me, too much of the substance, weight, solidity of the body is lost in shadow and indistinctness. It is fragmented into a few lit parts. It lacks connection with a context strong enough to help define it as an independent yet whole object.

I think only a forceful interplay-relationship of contrasts in the body itself can do this in your composition since context is so slight, really just ephemeral light reflections. I think the body needs to be much more assertive as an integral whole in the image, rather than some parts of it isolated from each other, and half-way emphasized independently by aloof lighting . Stronger, richer contrast and a unifying surface texture of the skin, strongly portrayed, could perhaps do it here.

To the extent that the body as a whole lacks impact, the feeling of person in the body is similarly weak. The lack of sense of person feeds back to the weakness of the sense of the body as a whole solid object. The effect is to see body parts mainly, and some of these in isolation cause me some slight discomfort. The pose itself, I think, is expressive. I like it. I think I would enjoy a little more of the sense of profile in the head, and a much stronger rendition of the hair in line with what I have said.

I'm grateful to see more quality work in this genre here in DGrin. Thanks, John!

clap

Neil

Nikolai · August 5, 2008

Hi John,
I didn't realize you're from TO, too:-) Good to know there is another talented photog and fellow dgrinner right here in my own town:-)
Soon we can open a TO Chapter of Dgrin/Smugmug

I like the general direction of the image. I have a few gotchas (a bit too much dead space on the top left, kinda bland bw, maybe reflector on the left), but I understand this is a work in progress, so I'm sure you'll come with more and better results soon!
Keep shooting and keep sharing, neighbour!

Brody · August 5, 2008

Idlewild wrote:

Striking image...beautiful!

...and I'm only asking b/c I can't really tell....is she wearing some kind of shear garment from her waist down? Looks like there is a very fine line of sorts beginning just @ the hips....doesn't look that way on the feet....maybe just to the tops of her legs? It may be the way the light is hitting her skin @ that particular angle.

Nonetheless, great image!

Thanks for your kind comment Idlewild.

I see your reason for asking, but I spent 6 hours with her taking 600+ photos from every conceivable angle, and I can assure you that she was wearing nothing waist down but nail polish. I had never noticed that before, so I went back and looked at the originals in full size and see no line whatsoever... So why does it seem like a line in this compressed photo... It's a good question for which I don't have an answer. Very puzzling. Looking at the jumbo photos, I see a very slight angle and crease in her skin from the way she's curved for the shot and maybe in the compressed photo that creates a line which feeds into the dark indentation on her back thus causing the illusion... That's all I can figure.

When I showed up at the studio (which she owns BTW) she was wearing nothing but a non-binding cotton robe, and she even told me the importance of avoiding garment lines and how it bothered her that some models won't make the extra efort to avoid that problem. Wendy is a very professional model and takes her work seriously. I would recommend her if anyone wants to do a series like this in L.A.

Well, I didn't answer your question, and unfortunaely, I don't have one.

Thanks again for your feedback, John

dlplumer · August 5, 2008

NeilL wrote:

You’ve taken a lot of care with this shot, John. And though the subject’s back is to us, her commitment, to you and the image, comes through too. It’s a quality which no image of this genre can succeed without.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
It’s the quality which makes it possible for viewers to approach the intimacy of the image without the feeling of intrusion and embarrassment. Or, in the case of your shot here, almost!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I say almost because for me your pic does not achieve enough of a sense of a solid, living body, and consequently of a person possessing it, but more of a loose assembly of body parts. And it is this impression of seeing parts of a body, including the intimate part of the buttocks, which causes a certain uncomfortableness in the viewing, for me, at least. The main impact on my eye is the concave curve of the spine, and that exists largely out of any context. Another example is the cleft of the buttocks. They float, isolated by shadow and the constriction of the hips, in their own emphatic lighting, with no connection even to what they are supported by.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
For me, too much of the substance, weight, solidity of the body is lost in shadow and indistinctness. It is fragmented into a few lit parts. It lacks connection with a context strong enough to help define it as an independent yet whole object.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I think only a forceful interplay-relationship of contrasts in the body itself can do this in your composition since context is so slight, really just ephemeral light reflections. I think the body needs to be much more assertive as an integral whole in the image, rather than some parts of it isolated from each other, and half-way emphasized independently by aloof lighting . Stronger, richer contrast and a unifying surface texture of the skin, strongly portrayed, could perhaps do it here.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
To the extent that the body as a whole lacks impact, the feeling of person in the body is similarly weak. The lack of sense of person feeds back to the weakness of the sense of the body as a whole solid object. The effect is to see body parts mainly, and some of these in isolation cause me some slight discomfort. The pose itself, I think, is expressive. I like it. I think I would enjoy a little more of the sense of profile in the head, and a much stronger rendition of the hair in line with what I have said.

I'm grateful to see more quality work in this genre here in DGrin. Thanks, John! <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="" >clap

Neil
<o:p></o:p>

In other words, up the contrast and brightness just a tad <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/rolleyes1.gif" border="0" alt="" >

Great photo John <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/clap.gif" border="0" alt="" >

evoryware · August 5, 2008

dlplumer wrote:

In other words, up the contrast and brightness just a tad

Brody · August 5, 2008

Nikolai wrote:

Hi John,
I didn't realize you're from TO, too:-) Good to know there is another talented photog and fellow dgrinner right here in my own town:-)
Soon we can open a TO Chapter of Dgrin/Smugmug

What??? I thought SmugMug and this forum were for TO people only... They let people from other cities/states/countries in here??

Silliness aside, I have a question that everyone in the world may know the answer to but me. I'll use the excuse that I've only been using forums (and this is my 1st forum other than support groups) for about 2 weeks now... The question is, how do I get notified when somebody posts on a thread that I've started? A couple of times I've put up an image on a thread and heard nothing, then I go back to the thread and there are a number of comments on there. There must be some sort of notification system or something.

Thanks for your help. John

evoryware · August 5, 2008

Brody wrote:

What??? I thought SmugMug and this forum were for TO people only... They let people from other cities/states/countries in here??

Silliness aside, I have a question that everyone in the world may know the answer to but me. I'll use the excuse that I've only been using forums, and this is my 1st forum (other than support groups), for about 2 weeks now... The question is, how do I get notified when somebody posts on a thread that I've started? A couple of times I've put up an image on a thread and heard nothing, then I go back to the thread and there are a number of comments on there. There must be some sort of notification system or something.

Thanks for your help. John

click on You! in the nav bar at the top, then click on Edit Options on the left side and you'll see this:

<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>When you post a new thread, or reply to a topic, you can choose to automatically add that thread to your list of subscribed threads, with the option to receive email notification of new replies to that thread.</TD></TR><TR><TD><SELECT id=sel_autosubscribe name=autosubscribe> <OPTION value=-1 selected>Do not subscribe</OPTION> <OPTION value=0>No email notification</OPTION> <OPTION value=1>Instant email notification</OPTION> <OPTION value=2>Daily email notification</OPTION> <OPTION value=3>Weekly email notification</OPTION></SELECT> <LABEL for=sel_autosubscribe>Default Thread Subscription Mode:</LABEL> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

NeilL · August 5, 2008

@ dlplumer & evoryware

Well, ain't you guys just so g'dam CLEVER!

And HILARIOUS!

And what a pity you are so desperate to knock someone, eh? Haven't you got a cat to kick, boys?

And what a drag your sour humor is, and your commitment to reducing photography to just adjusting sliders in post processing software.

Go right ahead, dear fellow DGrinners, and up the contrast and brightness. And don't forget to show us your world shattering results!

I doubt that you will achieve the effect I was describing, of conveying the solidity and wholeness of the body through the interrelationship of rich contrasts and skin texture, and so making the body express the person it is.

But your failure would be oh so CLEVER and HILARIOUS, woudn't it, you comedians, you!

Ha! Ha! Ha! I'm rolling on the floor.

Take your own advice, please, and use less words. None, preferably.

Neil

DavidTO · August 5, 2008

Brody wrote:

What??? I thought SmugMug and this forum were for TO people only... They let people from other cities/states/countries in here??

Silliness aside, I have a question that everyone in the world may know the answer to but me. I'll use the excuse that I've only been using forums (and this is my 1st forum other than support groups) for about 2 weeks now... The question is, how do I get notified when somebody posts on a thread that I've started? A couple of times I've put up an image on a thread and heard nothing, then I go back to the thread and there are a number of comments on there. There must be some sort of notification system or something.

Thanks for your help. John

Brody,

Nice shot! We should have a TO get-together! Not BJ's, though, I can't eat anything there (I know, I've tried!)

You can subscribe to threads by either choosing to subscribe to all threads you post to (in your control panel) or on a case by case basis. Next time you post, scroll down and you'll see subscription options.

Brody · August 5, 2008

evoryware wrote:

click on You! in the nav bar at the top, then click on Edit Options on the left side and you'll see this:

I followed the path you outlined in your pos above and the options are "No email Notification" and 3 other frequencies of email. I assume choosing the "No Email" option means I've subscribed automatically when I Post or have a thread, but won't recieve email? That seems like a good thing, but then where do the notes go to, and are they sent as private messages? Maybe I find them on my profile?

Sorrry to sound so dense... 8 years of college and this forum is kicking my butt... Wasted tuition ya think?

Thanks for your help, John

Qarik · August 5, 2008

NeilL wrote:

Well, ain't you guys just so g'dam CLEVER!

And HILARIOUS!

And what a pity you are so desperate to knock someone, eh? Haven't you got a cat to kick, boys?

And what a drag your sour humor is, and your commitment to reducing photography to just adjusting sliders in post processing software.

Go right ahead, dear fellow DGrinners, and up the contrast and brightness. And don't forget to show us your world shattering results!

I doubt that you will achieve the effect I was describing, of conveying the solidity and wholeness of the body through the interrelationship of rich contrasts and skin texture, and so making the body express the person it is.

But your failure would be oh so CLEVER and HILARIOUS, woudn't it, you comedians, you! Ha! Ha! Ha! I'm rolling on the floor.

Take your own advice, please, and use less words. None, preferably.

Neil

Neil,

Perhaps you could be more concise in your critique and also handle critiques of your critigues a little less heavy handedly. IMO it almost appears you enjoy listening to youself critique more than anything else. But hey that is just me!

Qarik

NeilL · August 5, 2008

Qarik wrote:

Neil,

Perhaps you could be more concise in your critique and also handle critiques of your critigues a little less heavy handedly. IMO it almost appears you enjoy listening to youself critique more than anything else. But hey that is just me!

Qarik

Thanks, Qarik.

It'd be a sad state of affairs if I got no pleasure from what I do, eh?

Thing is, I am a man, and I won't take being laughed at in the fashion we have seen above, juniors playground style.

If you are comfortable with that here in DGrin you got it!

We all know there are those who feel inadequate when something beyond the superficial is being attempted. I don't want to encourage that type in their deficiency.

A lot can be expressed in words and the way they are used. I guess that's why we have 'em, yes?

And why I try to say what I can see MIGHT be said, with effort.

If someone sees a long post, they should avoid it if they cannot handle it, don't you think?:D

Neil

Richard · August 5, 2008

OK, time out everyone. Let's get back to discussing Brody's very fine shot, OK?

evoryware · August 5, 2008

I responded to your msg Brody.

NeilL, I actually enjoy reading your post and then looking at the photos again to learn how you think about photography. I'm quite open minded when it comes to life.
I posted the smiley because I thought it was lighthearted what he said. Lighten up and get off your :soapbox .

In fact, how about you show us what you mean, find a model and photograph your comfortable interpretation - even if it's a self-portrait. Heck, draw a sketch. More than words for once.

Andy · August 5, 2008

evoryware wrote:

NeilL, I posted the smiley because I thought it was lighthearted what he said. Lighten up and get off your :soapbox .

+1

dlplumer · August 5, 2008

evoryware wrote:

I responded to your msg Brody.

NeilL, I actually enjoy reading your post and then looking at the photos again to learn how you think about photography. I'm quite open minded when it comes to life.
I posted the smiley because I thought it was lighthearted what he said. Lighten up and get off your :soapbox .

In fact, how about you show us what you mean, find a model and photograph your comfortable interpretation - even if it's a self-portrait.

It was intended to be lighthearted.

Obviously hit a nerve, but not intended to hurt.

Feedback should contain sonsory based descriptive language that others can turn into action. When such ambiguous language is used, it makes it difficult to translate into specific action.

No need to take it personally Neil, and no one was laughing AT you.

Best,

Dan

NeilL · August 5, 2008

Andy wrote:

+1

I know you are my friend, Andy. No need to keep proving it!

(Please don't take me seriously. Just being lighthearted)

Neil

NeilL · August 5, 2008

dlplumer wrote:

Feedback should contain

"Should" is a big, impressive word. I think I have used it myself once or twice, but I almost never act on it!

wink

Neil

Darren Troy C · August 6, 2008

There's quite a fine image @ the top of this post....maybe we should get back to it.

JB, the line, indeed, may be from the compression. No matter, the image stands just fine as is. Strong, powerful, and damn sexy....yep, I said it. Carry on....about the image, that is.

Brody · August 6, 2008

Idlewild wrote:

There's quite a fine image @ the top of this post....maybe we should get back to it.

JB, the line, indeed, may be from the compression. No matter, the image stands just fine as is. Strong, powerful, and damn sexy....yep, I said it. Carry on....about the image, that is.

Thank you much Idlewild, for the comments and for reeling it back in to the original thread. I was quite enjoying the discussion, from the tips from my Homeys in TO to living vicariously through the images of a fellow IT runaway wandering with camera in hand through Europe....

Take care, John

f64 · August 6, 2008

very nice quality.

snowalker · August 6, 2008

Nice

Nice picture!
I like specially the light. Maybe more contrast is required but whatever is an amazing photo. Thanks for sharing!