Usage/Licensing pricing for Assigned *Product Photography* Shots?

pmbpro

Hi everyone,

I've been researching Fotoquote for pricing guidelines, and it's a great resource. I intend to use it regarding licensing issues.

I'm in a situation where I have an opportunity to price Product Photography working on a Freelance basis (not "work-for-hire") for a major magazine. They would ship me the products (well-known household items/brands, gift baskets for ads, contests, etc...) and I shoot them, providing the images on CD.

I've already come up with a quoting system per shot (plus a minimum charge of a 1/2-Day Rate) and what it includes (web JPEG version, hi-res JPEG or TIFF, online review of photos, items on a CD). Any requested special Photoshop work, such as close-cropping, colour changes, etc, would cost extra, per hour. The prices completely cover my costs (plus profit) for shooting.

The thing I'm not sure about is the "Usage/Licensing" pricing.

***
Licensing

I've seen both of these scenarios before on different occasions:

1. Negotiating the licensing/usage similar to FotoQuote's guidelines -- the magazine circulation/print run, ad sizes, placement (cover, or inside), etc. for a certain duration (e.g. a year).

2. On the other hand, I've read of product photography companies granting exclusive license for unlimited use of the images, but with the condition that the images may not be re-sold, or distributed to pro image wholesalers or image galleries, etc. for example.

I was prepared to do the #1 scenario. Questions...

Would that work when the client is supplying the items to be shot, and that the images aren't that unique (where any other freelancer could do these types of shots)? Does them supplying the products (as opposed to me using stock), make a difference?

Re-running the Ads...
Also, say the client prints 1,000,000 magazines, and also after the first ad placement, they may want to run it again. If I go with #1, how would I negotiate the *re-run*? If so, do I use the same price I find in FotoQuote?


Any answers or feedback would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

pmb

Blaker

I'm a little confused- usually ads in major magazines are supplied by the manufacturers, not done in-house by the major magazine. It also sounds unusual that they would be sending the products to you to photograph.What kind of magazine is this that would place ads in this manner?
As to your first question- you are selling your services as a photographer, so it doesn't matter whether they supply the items to be photographed or whether you get them on your own. The only thing that would impact would be in obtaining model/product releases- if they are supplying the items , and if they are national brand items, then I would assume they have obtained the product release?
In terms of the mag doing a re-issue, this and all other scenarios should be covered in your initial contract. If you license the photos for one time use only, then they would have to come back to you and draw up a whole new contract should they wish to use the photos again. Or you could include that in your present contract. Just be sure that whatever usage you decide upon is spelled out clearly in your contract.
Also, I would not nickel and dime them to death with all those extra charges for cropping, coloring, and any other post processing you do. It is more professional to deliver a finished product for a specific price. You know you are going to be doing some post-processing, so just figure out the approx hours and be sure to take it into consideration when you come up with your final price.
Are you shooting these on spec or have you already been contracted for definite usage?
If you can supply more information, perhaps people here would have more specific advice for you?
Hope it all works out!

pmbpro wrote:

Hi everyone,

I've been researching Fotoquote for pricing guidelines, and it's a great resource. I intend to use it regarding licensing issues.

I'm in a situation where I have an opportunity to price Product Photography working on a Freelance basis (not "work-for-hire") for a major magazine. They would ship me the products (well-known household items/brands, gift baskets for ads, contests, etc...) and I shoot them, providing the images on CD.

I've already come up with a quoting system per shot (plus a minimum charge of a 1/2-Day Rate) and what it includes (web JPEG version, hi-res JPEG or TIFF, online review of photos, items on a CD). Any requested special Photoshop work, such as close-cropping, colour changes, etc, would cost extra, per hour. The prices completely cover my costs (plus profit) for shooting.

The thing I'm not sure about is the "Usage/Licensing" pricing.

***
Licensing

I've seen both of these scenarios before on different occasions:

1. Negotiating the licensing/usage similar to FotoQuote's guidelines -- the magazine circulation/print run, ad sizes, placement (cover, or inside), etc. for a certain duration (e.g. a year).

2. On the other hand, I've read of product photography companies granting exclusive license for unlimited use of the images, but with the condition that the images may not be re-sold, or distributed to pro image wholesalers or image galleries, etc. for example.

I was prepared to do the #1 scenario. Questions...

Would that work when the client is supplying the items to be shot, and that the images aren't that unique (where any other freelancer could do these types of shots)? Does them supplying the products (as opposed to me using stock), make a difference?

Re-running the Ads...
Also, say the client prints 1,000,000 magazines, and also after the first ad placement, they may want to run it again. If I go with #1, how would I negotiate the *re-run*? If so, do I use the same price I find in FotoQuote?


Any answers or feedback would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

pmb

pmbpro

Hi Blaker!

Thanks for your reply.

I'm a little confused- usually ads in major magazines are supplied by the manufacturers, not done in-house by the major magazine. It also sounds unusual that they would be sending the products to you to photograph.What kind of magazine is this that would place ads in this manner?

When I used to work in Design/Production at a magazine (it was a Bridal mag), I've actually designed and assembled ads for manufacturers/vendors who supplied their own photos and copy. The magazine's Production Dept. put it together for the client (for a fee). Some manufacturers sent in their ad designed all "ready-to-go" to press (just needed file spec checking), so it I guess it depends on the magazine. It appears this company works the same way.

A bit more background on this case...

I was contacted by someone I've worked well with before as a designer. She now works in the Marketing Services Dept. of this publisher (its initials are RD... a very well-known name, around for decades), coordinating the advertising for the varied magazines they have. Apparently they produce quite a few other publications, including a health magazine and even a Canadian magazine.

The product shots are varied, for contests and ads ... often gift baskets, medicine, books, sometimes cereal and other foods, toilet paper etc.

I was also sent a PDF sample of how the images have been used. It was of a full-page readers contest ad, a contest they held and with several products shown, offered as prizes.

She said that the products are generally sent by RD but sometimes directly from manufacturers themselves ... that it depends on the circumstances. Also, ads are done in-house *and* ads are done by the manufacturers as well and sent in (like what I've seen before as stated above). It again varies depending on their client's resources, time, etc.

As to your first question- you are selling your services as a photographer, so it doesn't matter whether they supply the items to be photographed or whether you get them on your own. The only thing that would impact would be in obtaining model/product releases- if they are supplying the items , and if they are national brand items, then I would assume they have obtained the product release?

Thank you for your answer. Yes, I was thinking that it shouldn't matter how I got the products, but I wanted to be sure what others thought... Oh, and yes they do have clearance/releases on the products to get them shot since they arrange with the manufacturers to get them shipped and done.

In terms of the mag doing a re-issue, this and all other scenarios should be covered in your initial contract. If you license the photos for one time use only, then they would have to come back to you and draw up a whole new contract should they wish to use the photos again. Or you could include that in your present contract. Just be sure that whatever usage you decide upon is spelled out clearly in your contract.

Thanks. Yes, I want to cover the bases before drawing up or signing anything with them. I was going to go with FotoQuote's pricing based on their print run and ad size, and non-exclusive usage for 1 year, then they would have to come back after that...

Also, I would not nickel and dime them to death with all those extra charges for cropping, coloring, and any other post processing you do. It is more professional to deliver a finished product for a specific price. You know you are going to be doing some post-processing, so just figure out the approx hours and be sure to take it into consideration when you come up with your final price.

Sorry. I should have clarified... I do post-processing and cleaning for all photos, so that was included in my price already. I was just preparing for special requests like changing a product colour completely (like change a red wrapper into a blue wrapper, etc) as extra because they would not always need work like that for each photo.

I actually just received another email from them for pricing "with no extra Photoshopping or close-cropping included" since their team does that stuff. I had already formulated a price excluding close-cropping/background removal. However, I will consider what you wrote though, about delivering a "finished product", based on what they always do. It seems like they do a lot of close-cropping after looking at more samples, so I will include this. I haven't submitted my rates yet anyway.

Are you shooting these on spec or have you already been contracted for definite usage?

No, not shooting on spec. She was familiar with my photography already since we know each other, and she said I would do well with them. She let them know about me. I had product samples I'd already shot before too, so I showed her those so they can get a better idea, and I was contacted again after she saw those, hence the opportunity to quote them rates, etc. I have not shot for this magazine before.

Hope it all works out!

Thanks! I hope I do get it. This is my first time pricing for this kind of service. With a magazine this big with numerous freelancers at their disposal (and my not knowing how they negotiate with them), I'm nervous about over-pricing myself. Though I'm not about to be cheap either. I'm prepared to walk away though if they expect to pay lower than my minimum or I won't be able to afford to shoot for them. Thank you again for your input. Much appreciated.

Blaker

Interesting set up!
Don't be afraid of overpricing- it's a lot easier to negotiate down than to negotiate up!!

pmbpro wrote:

I'm nervous about over-pricing myself. Though I'm not about to be cheap either. I'm prepared to walk away though if they expect to pay lower than my minimum or I won't be able to afford to shoot for them. Thank you again for your input. Much appreciated.