Which Long Lens to use at Austin City Limits Fest

davidweaverdavidweaver Registered Users Posts: 681 Major grins
edited September 16, 2008 in Cameras
I'd really like to hear from some of you festival shooters.
I did ACL last year. Lots of good results with my Nikon 70-300 VR on D200s. This year it is all D300s. I get pit access to all stages for the first 3 songs. This is fine and I'll probably shoot the Tamron 17-50 and the Nikon 70-300VR when in close. I found the 70-300 a bit short when shooting bands from the back of the crowds. Getting something a bit brighter would be nice but I'm really interested in sharp pics. This means a monopod and a good piece of glass. Do I want to do wildlife with it..sure. but I will use it a lot for festival shooting in Austin.

BTW: Brighter glass doesn't buy me much as I'm shooting with good stage lighting. Sharpness and fast autofocus are more important in this environment.

What would you get? Weight is not much of an issue. Price? Negotiable.

I've been thinking of the APO 150-500mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM

Other suggestions?

Comments

  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited August 6, 2008
    I'd really like to hear from some of you festival shooters.
    I did ACL last year. Lots of good results with my Nikon 70-300 VR on D200s. This year it is all D300s. I get pit access to all stages for the first 3 songs. This is fine and I'll probably shoot the Tamron 17-50 and the Nikon 70-300VR when in close. I found the 70-300 a bit short when shooting bands from the back of the crowds. Getting something a bit brighter would be nice but I'm really interested in sharp pics. This means a monopod and a good piece of glass. Do I want to do wildlife with it..sure. but I will use it a lot for festival shooting in Austin.

    BTW: Brighter glass doesn't buy me much as I'm shooting with good stage lighting. Sharpness and fast autofocus are more important in this environment.

    What would you get? Weight is not much of an issue. Price? Negotiable.

    I've been thinking of the APO 150-500mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM

    Other suggestions?

    David,

    The Austin City Limits shows that they videotape should have pretty good lighting.

    Fast glass is still a benefit in that you can get better seperation from the background as well as faster shutter speeds for the more animated/active groups.

    The D300 is so much better at high-ISO so stay around ISO 800-1600 but use the ISO 3200 if you need it.

    If you need the length, go with the Nikkor 300mm, f/4D ED IF AF-S and TC-14E II combination or, if you swing it, the Nikkor 500mm, f/4G ED AF-S VR. With the 300mm and TC be prepared to use manual focus with focus confirmation as you might find too much focus hunting otherwise.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • davidweaverdavidweaver Registered Users Posts: 681 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2008
    Hi Ziggy53,
    I've got a D300 in a the shop now so I'm shootign daily with a D200 an D300 in low light situations. Even at ISO 800 the difference is dramatic. I'll keep the D200 a a back until after ACL.

    I don't know if I buy much with a 300 f/4 and a TC over the 70-300 with a TC. Both combos would give me an effective 630mm on a DX sensor.
    With the 300mm f/4 I would get a 420 at f/5.6 (w/ AF)
    The 70-300 would get me 420 at f/8 (no AF)
    The 500mm is intriguing. It is a 750mm at f/4 on the DX sensor and it is an effective f/5.6 1050mm lens. (I think I got the math right)

    I'll have to ask my editor for a rate increase to cover that lens. :-)

    Thanks for the comments.


    ziggy53 wrote:
    ...
    The D300 is so much better at high-ISO so stay around ISO 800-1600 but use the ISO 3200 if you need it.

    If you need the length, go with the Nikkor 300mm, f/4D ED IF AF-S and TC-14E II combination or, if you swing it, the Nikkor 500mm, f/4G ED AF-S VR. With the 300mm and TC be prepared to use manual focus with focus confirmation as you might find too much focus hunting otherwise.
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited August 6, 2008
    ...

    I don't know if I buy much with a 300 f/4 and a TC over the 70-300 with a TC. Both combos would give me an effective 630mm on a DX sensor.
    With the 300mm f/4 I would get a 420 at f/5.6 (w/ AF)
    The 70-300 would get me 420 at f/8 (no AF)
    ...
    ... Sharpness and fast autofocus are more important in this environment. ... Price? Negotiable.

    Comparing the 70-300mm with a TC and the 300mm, f4 with a TC:

    There is obvious softness in the 70-300mm at 300mm alone. Adding a TC doesn't help.

    The 300mm prime and TC are still pretty sharp together and both our own HarryB and Thom Hogan recommend that combination.

    Harry, "300mm F/4D AF-S ED_IF
    This is my main lens for shooting flight shots. It's easily handheld or shot from a tripod. It works extremely well with the 1.4 TC."

    ... and, "I have found the F/8 is the sweet spot for this lens but the loss of image quality is very slight when shot wide open. Its probably the best buy out there in Nikon long glass on a performance to price basis."
    http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=357882&postcount=1

    Thom, "Better still, the lens is incredibly sharp when using the TC-14E 1.4x teleconverter ... And I do mean incredibly.
    http://www.bythom.com/300AFSlens.htm

    If you can't trust these guys, who can you trust?
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • davidweaverdavidweaver Registered Users Posts: 681 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2008
    ziggy53 wrote:
    ...

    If you can't trust these guys, who can you trust?

    True!!!

    Now I like the idea of a prime. I forgot to say I have the older and beautiful 300mm f/4 ED (the one with the drop in filter and attached metal lens shade) that is super-super sharp and a bit slow on the AF.
    I used it once during SXSW last year:
    Thomas Dolby

    142050499_vqwae-M-2.jpg


    Maybe I should test the 1.4 TC on it?. I don't take it with me to shows because I loose the flexibility of a zoom. I know I give up some sharpness and some brightness, but then I can think back to this shot.
  • kpoorekpoore Registered Users Posts: 15 Big grins
    edited August 8, 2008
    D300 in shop?
    Hi,
    I do not come to Grin much, but I am glad I did today.
    Please tell me what is wrong with your Nikon.

    I was lusting after the Nikon D300 untill I was reminded of the repair rate (7) of Nikon as compared to say the Canon (4) from Consumer Reports. That kind of put a damper on it.
    I was looking at that camera, Canon D40 and Sony A700.
    I have a Sony A100 now and wanted to upgrade to a CMOS.

    Geesh, the Nikon d300 only came out Aug. '07!

    Thanks for your time ...
    Karen
    www.kpoore.smugmug.com
    kpoore2001@yahoo.com
    Hi Ziggy53,
    I've got a D300 in a the shop now so I'm shootign daily with a D200 an D300 in low light situations. Even at ISO 800 the difference is dramatic. I'll keep the D200 a a back until after ACL.

    I don't know if I buy much with a 300 f/4 and a TC over the 70-300 with a TC. Both combos would give me an effective 630mm on a DX sensor.
    With the 300mm f/4 I would get a 420 at f/5.6 (w/ AF)
    The 70-300 would get me 420 at f/8 (no AF)
    The 500mm is intriguing. It is a 750mm at f/4 on the DX sensor and it is an effective f/5.6 1050mm lens. (I think I got the math right)

    I'll have to ask my editor for a rate increase to cover that lens. :-)

    Thanks for the comments.
  • davidweaverdavidweaver Registered Users Posts: 681 Major grins
    edited August 20, 2008
    kpoore wrote:
    Hi,
    I do not come to Grin much, but I am glad I did today.
    Please tell me what is wrong with your Nikon.

    I was lusting after the Nikon D300 untill I was reminded of the repair rate (7) of Nikon as compared to say the Canon (4) from Consumer Reports. That kind of put a damper on it.
    I was looking at that camera, Canon D40 and Sony A700.
    I have a Sony A100 now and wanted to upgrade to a CMOS.

    Geesh, the Nikon d300 only came out Aug. '07!

    Thanks for your time ...
    Karen
    www.kpoore.smugmug.com
    kpoore2001@yahoo.com

    Nikon needs to get more user feedback and to do a better job of watching what gets repaired and then try to incorporate changes in future bodies to reduce some of those repairs.

    Nikon repair is good. I'll bet Canon repair is good too. Nikon takes 3-6 weeks to get your gear back to you once you have sent it and that you don't delay in approving repairs. I plan for Nikon taking something about 6-8 weeks. I don't follow Canon repair threads but I'll guess that repairs are faster there hence the better rating.

    The problem with me D200/D300s is the hotshoe mount. Now the basic idea of putting a lot of weight on a camera and then mounting on a tiny hotshoe is just plain dumb. But it is a 'standard' so we live with it. I have worked lose the hotshoes on D200s and I have bent(damages) the hotshoe on a D300. It doesn't help that the SB-800 has a very firm metal base. It would be better to have the flash give way with a plastic base and then fix that for 50 bucks than getting the body to Nikon or to a local shop for an expensive repair (150-275 dollars)

    To tighten or repair the hotshoe requires the body be taken apart as the screws that tighten the hotshoe to the body are screwed in from the inside of the camera. Canon hotshoes can be tighten from the top!

    Is one camera better than another. No. I had a lot of Nikon and Nikon-mount glass when I switched to digital. For a good highend pro-sumer camera, and if I had to do it all over again, I'd give the Olympus stuff a good look.
  • davidweaverdavidweaver Registered Users Posts: 681 Major grins
    edited August 21, 2008
    Back on topic.

    I bought a new Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 from Amazon (of all places!) for under $2300. It will be here this weekend so I can test/practice with it at an event. I will prolly get a 2x Sigma TC from the local camera store. About the same price as online and it is important to support local businesses. ( they couldn't get close to that Amazon price and it is not a gray market unit either)

    This gives me a maximum effective 900mm at F/5.6. Woot!!!!

    Unfortunately my fees for the Austin City Limits event won't cover this purchase. I hope it will get me more gigs.

    Now I just need to find a monopod for it. Some Gitzo I assume with the RRS BH-55 head.
  • kpoorekpoore Registered Users Posts: 15 Big grins
    edited August 24, 2008
    Which Long Lens to use at Austin City Limits Fest
    Hi David and thanks for your post.

    I was going to say that's an argument for a wireless flash, but that would not work for your project since you will be moving around alot.

    I appreciate your input.
    Karen in Austin (-:
    Nikon needs to get more user feedback and to do a better job of watching what gets repaired and then try to incorporate changes in future bodies to reduce some of those repairs.

    Nikon repair is good. I'll bet Canon repair is good too. Nikon takes 3-6 weeks to get your gear back to you once you have sent it and that you don't delay in approving repairs. I plan for Nikon taking something about 6-8 weeks. I don't follow Canon repair threads but I'll guess that repairs are faster there hence the better rating.

    The problem with me D200/D300s is the hotshoe mount. Now the basic idea of putting a lot of weight on a camera and then mounting on a tiny hotshoe is just plain dumb. But it is a 'standard' so we live with it. I have worked lose the hotshoes on D200s and I have bent(damages) the hotshoe on a D300. It doesn't help that the SB-800 has a very firm metal base. It would be better to have the flash give way with a plastic base and then fix that for 50 bucks than getting the body to Nikon or to a local shop for an expensive repair (150-275 dollars)

    To tighten or repair the hotshoe requires the body be taken apart as the screws that tighten the hotshoe to the body are screwed in from the inside of the camera. Canon hotshoes can be tighten from the top!

    Is one camera better than another. No. I had a lot of Nikon and Nikon-mount glass when I switched to digital. For a good highend pro-sumer camera, and if I had to do it all over again, I'd give the Olympus stuff a good look.
  • davidweaverdavidweaver Registered Users Posts: 681 Major grins
    edited September 1, 2008
    Okay! I got the Sigma 120-300 f/2.8.
    thoughts:
    It's heavy.
    When will my monopod and head get here?
    It's heavy.
    I need a new camera strap...maybe a small roll of carpet padding too.
    It's fun to shoot.
    It zooms the opposite way of Nikkor lenses I think.

    I took it out this weekend on assignment shooting the Nike+ Human Race 10k here in Austin. I really like it and it focuses fast but seems to hunt focus even in S focus mode....hmmm

    Here are 2 pics with the same cropping, from the same location, One is 300mm (on the Sigma) and one is 30mm (on the Tameron17-50) at their 35mm equivalent:
    363796155_YxSHw-M.jpg
    Could it be sharper? Sure. But I wanted to show working conditions in a crowd. :-)
    and

    363796202_Xz7MK-M.jpg
  • davidweaverdavidweaver Registered Users Posts: 681 Major grins
    edited September 5, 2008
    [I wanted to share a PM and my response.]
    On Thu, September 4, 2008 10:12 pm, O'Sullivan Stephen wrote:
    > An interesting thread discussion.
    >
    > I was interested to see that the larger photo was taken at f/4.5 --
    > why not 2.8? That's why you got the thing, no? Otherwise you could
    > have used the Siggy 100-300 f/4. YOu could have reduced the ISO or
    > increased the shutter speed and got a cleaner shot.
    >
    > Have a look here (a recent find) for a whole lot of very impressive
    > photos taken with that lens:
    >
    > http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=277729
    >
    > Particularly as a result of the discussion there -- and their results,
    > I'm more inclined to pick up a copy of that lens.
    >
    > SOS
    >
    > ps. Please let me know if you post a bunch more pics from that event
    > with that lens!
    >

    Ah.
    I generally don't care much about f-stop for that kind of work at that distance. It's all shutter priority for stage work. I can easily fix plus or minus 2EV in workflow. The noise in the D300 is great (very low). You do point out that I would have still had very acceptable results with the tele-converter.

    What it didn't mention is the image is super bright in the viewfinder and that helps with focus and composition. It's also sharp. I'm happy with it. It did what I needed it to do at that show.

    I am keeping my Nikon 70-300vr f/4.5-5.6 as this is my choice tele for nightclub and small venue work. Taking the 120-300 into a small club isn't practical. I can keep the 70-300vr w/ body stuffed into my Think Tank Speed Racer bag while I use the Tameron 17-50 f/2.8 or Nikon 12-24 f/4 on a body around my neck.

    On the Siggy, If I can stop down at all from f/2.8 then I'm all over it. It buys me a tiny bit more depth of field. As 99% of my published work is cropped I also don't care much about the edges but that it is good at the edges gives me the ability to use them. I need to figure out why the focus tracking still wants to hunt on S. It's set up correctly on the body programming...time to read the manual I suppose.

    I bought this lens to cover large shows and festivals. The next step is to toss the Sigma 2x TC on it and see what happens. tests for that are next week when the monopod and head arrive from RSS.
  • luckyrweluckyrwe Registered Users Posts: 952 Major grins
    edited September 7, 2008
    I wanna go! I plan to be in Austin in late November. I can bring my 200-400mm :-)
  • davidweaverdavidweaver Registered Users Posts: 681 Major grins
    edited September 16, 2008
    luckyrwe wrote:
    I wanna go! I plan to be in Austin in late November. I can bring my 200-400mm :-)

    Unfortunately ACL won't allow you to bring in pro DSLR gear unless you are pre-approved press, and getting credentials is a bit of work at that! You might be able to get into the November Fun Fun Fun Fest however :-)

    Now, I've been playing with the Sigma 120-300 and 2xTC and here are a couple test shots from today shot on a D300, uncropped and uncorrected NEF/RAW except I turned them into jpegs.

    374236840_2BrEM-M.jpg


    374234954_6FphT-M.jpg



    374236118_8hh7R-M.jpg

    I'm happy with it!

    Cheers,
    David
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