Newb Question

Spectra

Yeah, so... I've been looking to get into photography and I know about the same as anyone who can search wikipedia or look up specs.

What I want from a camera is the ability to shoot anything, wether its moving slow or fast, a large landscape or a tiny insect. My friends all have 10 mega pixel SLRs and we're all trying to start a design company, so I don't really want anything less than 10MP (so I can keep up so to speak).

I want to be able to take all-around good shots no matter what I'm looking at and also be able to grow with my first camera with the hopes of getting into professional photography.

The Sony A200k caught my eye because it was reviewed by a bunch of places as an all around good entry-level camera and the price wasn't too far out of reach ($300-$500)

I'm wondering what the good folks at Dgrin have to say about entry-level cameras, this particular camera and newb photographers in general.

This grasshopper is seeking guidance.

Nikolai

Sorry, friend, but what you seek doesn't exist, not on this Earth that is.
Try to limit your appetite and adjust your requirements.
And is you want to keep up with your dslr-able buddies be prepared to pay through the nose both with your money and your time, cause quality doesn't come cheap or fast.
Welcome to Dgrin ... and to the real world!

Spectra

Nikolai wrote:

Sorry, friend, but what you seek doesn't exist, not on this Earth that is.
Try to limit your appetite and adjust your requirements.
And is you want to keep up with your dslr-able buddies be prepared to pay through the nose both with your money and your time, cause quality doesn't come cheap or fast.
Welcome to Dgrin ... and to the real world!

Well, what do you think of the Sony A200?

Nikolai

Spectra wrote:

Well, what do you think of the Sony A200?

According to Phil Askey (dpreview), it's a typical Sony:

Poor rendition of low-contrast detail in JPEG (shoot RAW to avoid this)
Large amounts of chroma noise and little shadow detail in high ISO images
Longer than average start-up time
Record review takes longer than average
No built-in AF assist
Poor white balance performance in artificial light
High ISO noise reduction blurs a lot of detail
Screen difficult to view in bright conditions and prone to smearing
Image quality suffers above ISO 800 (from both noise and excessive noise reduction)
Magnification factor in play mode not customizable (jumps straight to 6.1x)

But I'm a Canonite, so I'm biased...

Spectra

Nikolai wrote:

According to Phil Askey (dpreview), it's a typical Sony:
But I'm a Canonite, so I'm biased...

What would be a good entry-level Canon? Or ... Is there one?

Spectra

Spectra wrote:

What would be a good entry-level Canon? Or ... Is there one?

I am willing to pay through the nose in terms of time & money because this has been something I've wanted to do for a long time. Everytime I pick up any kind of camera I find it hard to put it down.

Now, you probably hate me because I asked about the A200k but after looking at some Canons the Rebel XS looks pretty good but, I'm wondering if its worth the price difference.

Nikolai

Spectra wrote:

What would be a good entry-level Canon? Or ... Is there one?

Any of the Rebels, including the latest XS.
However, my point was that no single body or lens (from whatever brand) allow you to cover all possible photographic venues. You will have to start at the very bottom of the food chain and will be limited by what you can and - mostly - cannot do. However, if you do start, you will eventually get a better concept on what you actually want to do, and that will allow you to concentrate on fewer areas more effectively.
Jut IMHO.

ChatKat

Not the camera....
Spectra,

The camera and gear help you make a good image. You as the photographer have to learn to make a camera do these things. it's the photographer who learns to pan action to get sports and animals. It's the photographer who learns what lens to put on to make the background blur. Or what angle to hold the camera to get the reflection just so in the image. It's the photographer who knows how to make the bride's face light up and her dress be white and not gray when her back is to the sun at the wedding on the beach.

It's not the camera but you still need the right tool for the job. It's not about keeping up with your friends gear. Go and learn. Dgrin is a good place to start. I suggest the Canon Rebel or the starter Nikon and a decent lens about the 24-80 focal range to start. Take some baby steps.

CWSkopec

My 2 cents...
Spectra,
Kathy makes a great point. I got my first dslr just about 4 months ago (maybe 5) and I had somewhat over inflated ideas that suddenly I was going to get it... it's not that simple. Any dslr will help you achieve what you want, but you're still going to have to put in the time... I'm definitely still learning. And dgrin is a GREAT place to do that!! I'm certainly a lot farther ahead than I would have been on my own.

That said, I also agree with Nikolai! My dad was a Canon guy so even though I looked at the current Nikon offerings at the time, it was pretty much a fore gone conclussion I was going to get a Canon. My dad loved his Rebel XT and I went one better with the XTi (he's still a little jealous) and as Nikolai mentioned, the newest version out is the XSi. I haven't read a bad review of it yet!! It's going to cost you more than the Sony, but based on the review Nikolai mentioned... well, it would be worth saving the extra $$ for a bit to get a Canon (or Nikon if you HAVE to). Plus with either, you'll have a much broader range of lenses you can experiment with. That way you'll have a broader range of situations you can shoot in. You could even check the Flea Market section here to see if you can find a deal on a Canon that suits your budget!

Hope that helps!!

jrmyrnsm

Since you're just starting with DSLRs I would make sure you pick a system you are gonna like. I know you said you want to try and go into professional photography but what kind of photography may determine what brand you go with. I would also recommend you go to your local Best Buy or camera store and try out the different brands, try the entry level stuff and the semi-pro or pro stuff and see how you like them. Odds are if you start investing in one system you will probably stay with it for a while especially as you put more and more money into lenses and accessories. For me I started with a Canon Rebel XTi and I loved it. I liked how it handeled, how the Canon line of cameras was layed out, the offerings for upper end models, etc. At the same time I also really like the Canon lenses so I knew down the line when I could afford the Canon L glass I would be glad I went the Canon route. Nikon at the time I started didn't have the D3 or D700 etc. and Sony's only camera was the A100 so I jumped on board with Canon and I'm happy. Sony is relatively new and they are putting out some decent stuff but I personally would be cautious of jumping on their train since the only "pro" model they currently have is equal to the semi-pro Canon and Nikon offerings but it looks like they have a lot of new stuff comming in the next few months, so who knows. Good luck with your choice and know that most any of the big 3 camera companies are going to be making good cameras for years to come! Have fun!

dlplumer

Spectra wrote:

What would be a good entry-level Canon? Or ... Is there one?

The best entry level Canon is the XSi/450D

zoeblue

Hi Spectra,

Welcome to the wonderful world of photography and to Dgrin. If you're serious about growing as a photographer, a dSLR is a must because it gives you so many more options with lenses, flashes, etc. As for whether or not you go with Canon or Nikon, you'll get many different opinions as most photographers are partial to a particular brand.

I'm a Canon girl as all my cameras have been Canons so that would be my brand of choice, but that doesn't mean Nikon or Olympus don't have great products either. Any of the Canon Rebels are great, with the XS being the newest model. If you are willing to spend more money, there is always the 40D, which I have and love. Nikon has the D60, D80, D200, and D300 to choose from. Olympus has the E420 and E520.

What camera you get depends on your budget and how the camera feels in your hands. Visit your local camera store and hold the camera to see how it feels. Don't go to overboard with lenses; start with a good mid-range zoom somewhere in the 18-85mm range. Then take the camera with you everywhere and photograph as much as possible! You have to learn to "see" as the camera sees because our eyes interpret light very differently than the camera's sensor does.

Learn how your camera works i.e. controls, etc. and learn to get the exposure and composition right "in camera" rather than trying to fix things in Photoshop. When I first started taking photos over 20 years ago, there was only film so I had to learn how to get exposures correctly the first time as there was no Photoshop!

So read all you can about photography. If you can find someone to mentor you, that would be even better. Dgrin is a great forum to learn more about photography. Although I must warn you, photography can easily become an addiction and obsession . I've been passionate about photography since I was 12 years old and I am most happy when I am taking photos.

Zoe

jrmyrnsm

dlplumer wrote:

The best entry level Canon is the XSi/450D

You also might be able to find a good deal on a used or maybe even new 30D which would be in a class above the Rebels. I recently upgraded to a 30D from an XTi for for about the same price and I love it. A much more solid camera. I would check the flea market on here or you could check the refurbished cameras at Adorama. There are some good deals out there especially if you dont mind it being lightly used.:D

NikonsandVstroms

Olympus

both the e420&520 are great entry level cameras, with the420 being smaller, and the 520 having built-in image stabilization. Plus the kit lens is a lot higher quality than nikon or canon and even Has decent macro capabilities (your not going to zoom in on a tiny insect but a flower can be done easily) they have great color reproduction, the only issue is with noise at ISO 800 & above (but from what I hear its pretty Comparable to Sony)just another option to check out,and I'm loving mine

swintonphoto

The Olympus E-520 & E-420 are the best in my opinion. Price for features they are really unbeatable.

Richard

There's lots of good advice in the above posts, but I'm going to suggest a slightly different approach. The Canon G9 costs a little under $500 and is probably the best P&S camera available today. It has a 6x optical zoom range, full manual and semi-automatic shooting modes and can produce RAW files. Plus great quality. Spend a year or so learning the basics of photography with this camera and then you will have a much better idea of what path you want to follow and what equipment your will need. You will certainly want a dSLR later, but many people here also have a P&S camera for convenience, so it would not be wasted money.

Good luck with your decision.

Grainbelt

Richard wrote:

There's lots of good advice in the above posts, but I'm going to suggest a slightly different approach. The Canon G9 costs a little under $500 and is probably the best P&S camera available today.

...

Spend a year or so learning the basics of photography with this camera and then you will have a much better idea of what path you want to follow and what equipment your will need.

Good luck with your decision.

Your desire to shoot everything from lanscapes to insects, your desire to learn and grow, to me indicate a need for an intro to manual controls in a forgiving package.

I was in a similar place a year ago, and bought a Canon S5 IS. It doesn't have the narrow depth of field of a DSLR, it isn't as wide of a lens as I'd like, and I'd prefer less shutter lag. That said, it has taken me the better part of a year to come up to these barriers, and I've learned alot along the way.

Now that I have some concept of what I'm doing and what I want, I feel much more informed on my pending DSLR purchase. Which, for what its worth, looks more and more like Pentax every day.

Happy Shopping!

Nikolai

Richard wrote:

There's lots of good advice in the above posts, but I'm going to suggest a slightly different approach. The Canon G9 costs a little under $500 and is probably the best P&S camera available today. It has a 6x optical zoom range, full manual and semi-automatic shooting modes and can produce RAW files. Plus great quality. Spend a year or so learning the basics of photography with this camera and then you will have a much better idea of what path you want to follow and what equipment your will need. You will certainly want a dSLR later, but many people here also have a P&S camera for convenience, so it would not be wasted money.

Good luck with your decision.

Richard, as always, speaking like a true prodigy!
I totally second that. Jumping directly onto dslr bandwagon never seem like a good idea to me. I only got carried away because of the direct A200 and then entry-level canon dslr question.. :bash

jziegler

Richard wrote:

There's lots of good advice in the above posts, but I'm going to suggest a slightly different approach. The Canon G9 costs a little under $500 and is probably the best P&S camera available today. It has a 6x optical zoom range, full manual and semi-automatic shooting modes and can produce RAW files. Plus great quality. Spend a year or so learning the basics of photography with this camera and then you will have a much better idea of what path you want to follow and what equipment your will need. You will certainly want a dSLR later, but many people here also have a P&S camera for convenience, so it would not be wasted money.

Good luck with your decision.

Fuji also has some nice advanced P&S models. The S100fs has a lot going for it. It has a larger sensor than most P&S models and a large zoom range. The reviews on it are mostly pretty good, other than it seems to have more purple fringing than most models. I don't have a DSLR (although I do want one) and have the discontinued S600fd, a predecessor to the S100fs. It does probably about 80% of what I want most of the time. You won't be able to do everything with this class of cameras, but you will get some very nice photos. They work well on trips due to their lower weight and smaller size. They offer a similar level of control to a basic SLR. In good light outside, the results will be similar to an entry leveel DSLR. They generally do not do well in low light or with action.

That said, it seems that all of the DSLRs on the market these days are capable of great results. The differences between them are not as great as many will say. If you do go with an SLR, try them in a store before you buy. I've done some looking, and there are models that just feel bad in my hand, I don't really want them, even if they have some of the best specs.