too many choices!!

erson83

I'm looking to update my bag to include a very respcetable portrait arsenal. As of now I have the lenses I want, 2.8 with all the focal points covered that I desire. Now for flash...I have a speedlight 430, lightsphere, omni bounce...have the flash bracket. Now the question--what is essential for off camera flash photography? I'd like to go with pocket wizards, but they are overly expensive. On the other hand, the canon transmitter has terrible reviews for outdoor work. Do I need two flashes off camera with a radio trigger? would one flash be ok with a radio trigger? Is the upgrade from the 430 really that important? How would two 430's be compared to a 430 and 520? could the canon transmitter get the job done for simple senior photos shoots and weddings? What do you all use for your outdoor and event portraits? Man, I could easily spend way to much money. Looking at what I already have listed as owning, what should I get now with a budget in mind? Lets assume I have a grand. Any and all suggestions would be wonderful. Thanks!

Art Scott

16 channel wireless Flash TRiggers
I just purchased 2 sets of this item on ebay......{i have just over $100 invested in flash triggers now and I can have all 5 of my studio lights firing off them and no worries about someone else firing my flash units at weddings or other location work}...they are 16 channel wireless flash triggers....work off your ISO hotshoe or by pc cord. I purchased one trigger and 1 receiver set a few months ago and played with it and really liked it so I bought the 2 sets mentioned above for a total of 3 transmitters and 5 receivers now.....for a person without a flash meter this might pose a problem as they are strictly manual transmitters and receivers...no data sharing just firing the flash....but I manual meter anyway so I do not need to go withthe expense of the PW's.............

jeffreaux2

Do you want to retain ETTL control that you enjoy through your off camera cord or shoot manual flash control?


That....is the question.

erson83

i have no idea!

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Do you want to retain ETTL control that you enjoy through your off camera cord or shoot manual flash control?


That....is the question.

Here comes my lack of knowledge! I have no idea!!! I need these to do pictures outdoors for senior portraits and others, as well as wedding reception shots. (though, would it be better to keep the flash on the flash bracket so I can freely move around during the reception?)

davidweaver

Ruh Roh!
<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/Laughing.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >...Are these AARP Seniors or HS seniors? <--actually a serious question as lighting youngsters and oldsters varies.
How big a group would you shoot?
Do you have umbrellas? Stands? Softboxes? StoFens?
How many flash units do you have? /want to have?

Since you used the W word you should also view this must-read piece by Scott Quier:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=83750

erson83 wrote:

Here comes my lack of knowledge! I have no idea!!! I need these to do pictures outdoors for senior portraits and others, as well as wedding reception shots. (though, would it be better to keep the flash on the flash bracket so I can freely move around during the reception?)

erson83

I have listed what I have currently in the original post...i do have light stands that I could use, however I ask that you re read my original post and help me out from there. The seniors are of the high school veriaty. Thanks for ur help<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >

davidweaver wrote:

Ruh Roh!
<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/Laughing.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >...Are these AARP Seniors or HS seniors? <--actually a serious question as lighting youngsters and oldsters varies.
How big a group would you shoot?
Do you have umbrellas? Stands? Softboxes? StoFens?
How many flash units do you have? /want to have?

Since you used the W word you should also view this must-read piece by Scott Quier:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=83750

davidweaver

Opps...my bad.

Two suggestions:
2 Stands (optional if your stand will do)
2 umbrellas
2 strobe mounts for the stands that allow for umbrellas
3 pocket wizards PLUS II (or the ones Art likes for 10% of the PW cost)
2 more strobes (get the vivitars for 75-80 bucks each.
Go look at packages at MPEX.COM
These are lightweight kits. All battery powered strobes. This all fits into a small over night bag with room to spare.

Are you a Strobist.com reader? If not I'd suggest that too.

If you get a little more serious with power needs then check out Alien Bees. There are some good kits. Get two of the same strobes B400 or B800. The umbrellas and stands are nicer than those at MPEX but it all works. you still need a remote (2 PW or one of Art's rigs) or you can get a 25 or 50' sync cable for a few dollars if you didn't want to go wireless.

Other than the extra back up gear that Scott is correct in saying you need you should be able to set up either package for under a grand.

Again, you should also view this must-read piece by Scott Quier:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=83750

erson83 wrote:

I have listed what I have currently in the original post...i do have light stands that I could use, however I ask that you re read my original post and help me out from there. The seniors are of the high school veriaty. Thanks for ur help

Scott_Quier

E-TTL is Canon's label for the technology Canon uses to communicate flash settings betwee the camera and the dedicated flashes. In my experience, it works so-so, not great, not bad.

Manual off-camera flash - now that's the way to go. Like David has said, if you aren't a strobist reader - become one. He has sooooo much information there and in an easy to understand format. In particular, read his Lighing 101 series. Great stuff.

If you do decide to go with manual flash, a flash meter is almost a requirement. My tool of choice is the Sekonic L-358 but there are others that are both more and less expensive. The strobist does most (all) his flash setups without a flash meter - but he's got lots and loads of experience behind him that I wish I had. Anyway, manual flash is not hard, nor does it take that much more time to set up than E-TTL.

You can get E-TTL working in off-camera scenarios. You can use the Canon ST-E2, but like you said, it has mixed reviews when used outdoors. Some folks have lots of success, other not so much. I don't have one and have never tried it so I have nothing more to offer there.

There is a new toy on the market, the Radio Popper that has also received some mixed reviews. Some have experienced absolutely no problems at all, others, well ....

One thought on the lighting gear. If you KNOW that you are in this for the long haul, buy as much quality as you can. It will pay off in the long run. You can do great work with a set of 3 or 4 inexpensive (but high quality) manual flashes and umbrellas. A decent umbrella bracket is this one - Impact Umbrella Bracket

If you are as yet unsure of the direction you will take, then the less expensive equipment might be the way to go - experiment with lower cost to see if it's what you want to do.

jeffreaux2

If you are wanting to do outdoor type portraits...and weddings....I suggest that you don't buy anything just yet. The flash you have is fine for simple fill light outdoors, and will get you by at a wedding reception with the bracket. Research which route you want to go, find out what the possibilities are in ETTL and manual. Eventually you will realize on your own what you NEED. I use ETTL which also has manual capability and so I use dedicated flashes. I have a 580EXII and use it with an STE2. I am anxiously awaiting a second flash that I bought this week. Later I will add Radio Poppers to allow me to retain the ETTL funtionality while skipping over any of the STE2 infra red shortcomings.

My advice....Find out what you cannot do with what you own, and build from there.

erson83

Ah Jeff, a sensable answer! Thanks for letting me know that I can take good stuff with what I've got! However, sensable doesnt equal fun...though it does equal less of a dent on my wallet!!

Thanks everybody for the advice, really appreciate everything

jeffreaux2 wrote:

If you are wanting to do outdoor type portraits...and weddings....I suggest that you don't buy anything just yet. The flash you have is fine for simple fill light outdoors, and will get you by at a wedding reception with the bracket. Research which route you want to go, find out what the possibilities are in ETTL and manual. Eventually you will realize on your own what you NEED. I use ETTL which also has manual capability and so I use dedicated flashes. I have a 580EXII and use it with an STE2. I am anxiously awaiting a second flash that I bought this week. Later I will add Radio Poppers to allow me to retain the ETTL funtionality while skipping over any of the STE2 infra red shortcomings.

My advice....Find out what you cannot do with what you own, and build from there.

pathfinder

I use PWs and the Canon IR Transmitter ( ST-E2) quite frequently, and like them both, but they are different tools for different purposes.

The PWs work great when shooting indoors or outside with manual strobes or speedlites. This means that the strobe to subject distance is controlled entirely by the photographer - "Stand right there!" Once you control the flash to subject distance, the exposure should not change, so manual strobes rock, whether battery powered speedlites, or AC drive studio strobes. PWs range is unlimited for practical purposes.

For candids, where people are moving about, and the shooter has absolutely no control of the flash to subject distance, manual strobes are much more challenging, and the Canon wireless system with the ST-E2 or a 580ex II really come into their own. The ST-E2 needs to 'see' the red lens of the receiving flash to work out of doors in sunlight. Mine will trigger out to about 20-25 feet if I am careful in my setup. If the flash is behind you, this is not going to work. The IS trigger really depends on walls to bounce the signal around to the flash some. Indoors, I can get the ST-E2 to trigger from over 30 feet away. With an off camera ETTL flash cord, the ST-E@ can be mounted on a bracket to help bounce off an indoor wall to trigger the strobes. I will control separate two separate sets of lights and can vary the lighting ratios back and forth from the shooter's position.

I have written more on this PWs and the ST-E2 here