Are you ready for some flag football!!??
First games of the season yesterday. All with D300, 300 2.8 and 1.4 TC. I had some nice, light cloud cover for most of the game. :biggrin:
The first shot is my pick of the night, maybe the season.
1
2
(looks like a young Bret Favre)
3
4
5
6
7
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9
10
When I first got to the field of the game I was scheduled to shoot, I ran into a parent who is one of my best baseball customers. She has orederd many shots of her two sons the last two seasons. One son was in yesterday's game(below). his little brother plays in the K-2 league, which I start shooting in three weeks.
Thanks for looking.
The first shot is my pick of the night, maybe the season.
1
2
(looks like a young Bret Favre)
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
When I first got to the field of the game I was scheduled to shoot, I ran into a parent who is one of my best baseball customers. She has orederd many shots of her two sons the last two seasons. One son was in yesterday's game(below). his little brother plays in the K-2 league, which I start shooting in three weeks.
Thanks for looking.
0
Comments
A football shooters dream, great lighting and no helmets
#7 is my fav.
You should sell a bunch.
www.socalimages.com
Artistically & Creatively Challenged
Thanks, John.
Thanks, Eddie. I have to shoot helmets next month. :cry
Thanks, Chuck.
http://www.knippixels.com
These are great shots. This is the kind of work I hope to be able to do in my area. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of agreement with the park do you have if any? I have parents ask me to take pics of their kids while I was taking some of my son. I've done it for friends for free for the last two years. I have many parents I don't know asking and are willing to pay. How do you handle permission to shoot for profitt?
Wes
www.clix-photo.com
Wes,
I have never had to have permission from a "park" to shoot photos. I have heard that some parks regulate this type of thing, but I have yet to find one in my area. When I shoot baseball, I do make it a point to ask permission from the umpire, because if you are not in the dugout, you are technically in the field of play. This has never been an issue for me until I got to the high school level. At this level, I get permission from both the home team coach and the umpire. if you are allowed inside the fence, you are restricted to the dugout only. Except for the time between innings.
Georgia High School baseball rules state that no one not in uniform is allowed inside the fence. I have yet to find a game where this is enforced. Just don't bother the players, and stay out of everyones way.
For most youth sports, just show up, hand out your business card, and shoot away. You will make a lot of parents happy. Well, maybe not every parent. Once this lady cussed me good for standing where she could not see little Johnny hit the ball. She was not nice about it at all
This was what I had intended on doing but have heard a few comments that I need permission from the park or parents to put pictures on my website. Do you use a web site to sell your work?
I'm a fellow Bulldawg by the way. Only I'm the Mississippi State variety.
Wes
www.clix-photo.com
Yes, I have recently upgraded to a smugmug pro account. You can see it by clicking on my user name, then visit my homepage.
Go Dawgs!!!
I'm going to disagree with this approach. For several reasons:
1. It's unprofessional. If you want to be a professional you should act like one. Go thru the proper chanels - it can save you headaches with parents that may not like someone taking photos of their little kids.
2. Also it avoids conflicts if the league in question has a contract photographer.
This is where things get tough when you want to stop being just a guy with a camera and actually start selling work and getting the benefits of being a professional (i.e. making some extra cash). In the end, having a good relationship with the league is incredibly important.
Also, don't forget about liability. Guess what happens if Little Johnny crashes into you and your gear? Can you survive a lawsuit? You're no longer just a fan there - you're there for commercial gain - and all the "witnesses" have your busines card to prove it. Sure the likelihood is remote a kid will get injured because of you. But also ask yourself if you're ready to take that risk. And, of course, if you're relying on homeowners or personal articles insurance policies for your gear - those go out the window when using it for business purposes. So even if Little Johnny doesn't get hurt if your camera gets broke you're either on the hook for the loss or you can commit insurance fraud by lying about the circumstances. I'm not trying to dissuade you at all. I'm just trying to point out there is more to being a professional than charging money.
How do you handle the parents that don't want pictures of little Johnny on the internet? You obviously can't find each players parent and ask permission.
www.clix-photo.com
A former sports shooter
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John,
I can't really disagree with anything you have said. For somebody that is showing up as just a photographer to make money you are absolutely correct.
My point of view may be a little different than most. I don't consider myself a professional because I don't do this for a living. Sure I make a little extra money but I already have a good job. The other thing is that I have not only been taking photos of kids playing youth sports for the last 12 years, I have also been coaching youth sports during the same period. I also serve on the board of our local youth athletic association.
Both of my sons are active in sports. One in High School & travel ball and youngest playing Rec. ball. And I am currently getting my team ready for fall baseball.
This is not a real big town. I already know or are friends with the school board members, the county recreation director, most all of the other coaches, and more players and parents than I can name.
The kids all call me Coach Eddie or they call me Camera Man. My team even won the county Pony League Championship last year. :ivar
In all of my years doing this I have never met a "contract" photographer. Sure, there are a few "professional" shooters that show up, but they never ask permission. That's probably because we have known them for years.
In fact, just for the heck of it, I just called the county rec. director and asked him if ever in the past 20 years he has been director, has anyone ever asked for permission to take photos. His answer, "No, why would they have to do that?"
He also said that he has never heard of a parent that objected to someone taking pictures of their kids playing sports. I am sure it happens, but it must be extremely rare.
Most parents say, "make sure you get some shots of my kid".
So I admit my perspective on the subject is not as professional as yours. And I surely don't shoot any professional sporting events like you probably do.
So, your advice is well taken. And I thank you for it. If I ever go somewhere to take sports photos out of "my circle of friends" I will definitely follow your advice.
I would like to know, if you don't mind my asking, what kind of insurance policy and at what level of coverage do you carry for this sort of business. I ask because I have thought about doing this "for a living" when I retire in the not to distant future. Better act like a pro if I'm going to be one.
Thanks
Edit -
John,
You got me thinking, so I just called another friend of mine, out of town, that I got to know through my sons travel baseball team. He is the president of a much larger league than we have here, and I asked him about how they handle the photography issue, and he said it was just like you said. They have a contract with "School Days Photography" and if he notices someone taking photos with more than a P&S camera, he will ask them what they are going to do with the photos, and if they say they are going to sell them, then he will tell them that is not allowed, and that they have a contract with another company, so if they don't stop taking photos they will be asked to leave. He said everyone is very understanding when he explains it to them.
In fact, he said that the for the upcoming year, the contract only covers team and individual posed photos, not action shots, and he would like to know if I would be interested in being their action photographer for the season.
He has seen my work for the last few years and said I do as good of a job as any pro they have used. He said the league would get 15%. Is that a normal cut?
I appreciate your help with this, and I'm sure Clixphoto does too.
Thanks again
Nippirdog - sorry for hijacking your post and getting off on the tangent.
I think you bring up a good point - things will differ by area. Small towns where you already know everyone are going to be different than larger suburbs or big cities. It's always best to check with the league first though. If there are no restrictions and no contract - great! no harm done.
As to parents asking you to not shoot or post photos of their child: I've never run into a parent yet that has asked me not to - but I look and act like a professional. I think parents are more woried about some random guy with a camera that just seems to be taking photos but no one knows him. But, here is my advice if anyone asks you not to post photos - simply ask which child is theirs. Tell them you'll do your best not to include them but can't guarantee anything. Give them your card and ask them to review the gallery and if they find a photo of their child send you an email and you'll be glad to remove the photo from the gallery.
In gneral it's just a good idea to always stay on peoples' good side - they're your potential customers. By checking with the league first - if a coach or parent asks you you can simply tell them you've got league permission (give them the name of the person you spoke with) and again offer a card and ask them to review your photos - and if they have any objections to the photographs posted you'll be glad to discuss it. More than likely no one will ever have a problem. But I don't agree with the confrontational approach of telling someone "hey it's a public place and if I want to take photos of your kid in a public place I will". The fact you have approval from the league/team and the fact you're willing to have them review your shots and contact you with any complaints should diffuse any situation. No need for confrontation.
As far as league kick backs - 10-15% is pretty common. I myself don't shoot leagues right now - I have a 2 year old son and a day job an hour from home so I can't commit to covering a league. Mostly just do freelance work for local paper and a few games here or there. Wish I could do more but the day job and my son are the priorities.
Insurance: Here is a link discussing insurance with a couple leads:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=27700
Hope some of this was helpful. Good luck everyone!
Sorry for the lare reply, but luckily, John covered for me.
I don't shoot any where, without first getting approval from the league. Period. My reasons are pretty much what John said.
This issue gets hotly debated here on occasion. Here is a post of mine in one of those threads;
http://www.knippixels.com
I am all for using password protected galleries for my youth shots but how do you get the passwords to all the parents?
www.clix-photo.com