Model Releases Needed In Public Places?

imax · April 26, 2005

OK, I have been to the links provided by many, I have searched model releases on this site and I still am not finding what I am looking for. Perhaps someone might know the answer.

I recently took photographs at a Renaissance Festival here in South FLorida. The pictures can be seen here

http://imax.smugmug.com/gallery/431216

http://imax.smugmug.com/gallery/426124

The organizers of the event want to use some of the shots for their website and also in the promotion of next years event. They are not paying me for the photographs per say just giving me credit for them and giving me free access to their future events to shoot them.

In addition, I have a magazine that is interested in the photographs as well to use in a magazine spread. (they are requesting releases) Now since I am new to this business and my main interest right now is getting my worked published I am more then willing to provide the photographs to them for free and hope that in the future my generosity will pay off..

The photographs were taken in a public area, each person was dressed in costume and had to know that photographs were going to be taken. So here's my questions:

1. If the photo's were taken in a public place at a festival where they are dressed in costume and they pose for the pictures, are model releases needed?

2. If I am not getting compensated for the pictures do I need a release?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this matter.

Joe

dragon300zx · April 26, 2005

If the person in the picture is recognizable yes you do need a model release.
Even if you are not making money off the images the magazine, the event, etc. Are making money off of the images. Even if they weren't for a persons photos that can be recognized to be published you need to have a release. Legally you technically should have the release to post them here. Several reasons without it you can be sued, and second what if the person in the photo (i know this is rare and if you want to hide dont get your photo taken but what if) what if that person is hiding from someone. For example, woman hiding from abusive husband, someone hiding from someon who wants to hurt them, etc. I'm sure you get the picture. This person is in hiding you publish the picture and then they get found. Not good. You have to get a release.

photoshow · April 26, 2005

Hi, ff the magazine is going to use the images in an Editorial fashion (news reporting, educational or descriptive, illustrative manner) then they should not need a release. In the USA if you are in public all expectation of privacy is removed. Of course this gets a little tricky because you have to take into account if you are on public or private property when shooting. It is this lack of expectation of privacy that allows the Paparazzi to capture and publish the images they sell. They shoot them in public, on public ground, from public ground and then the magazines and papers publish them in an editorial fashion.

So depending on the style in which the magazine intends to publish the story you may be able to get the shots published. If anyone in the images is recognizable the images absolutly can not be used without a release for commercial porposes so, the festival organizers will be unable to use the images without signed model releases from the models or their parent or legal gaurdian if the model is underage. Promotion and advertising do not fall under Editorial useage. Since the magazine is asking for releases it would lead me to believe that they are intending to run a piece that would be deemed promotional rather then editorial (informational)

Hope that helps,

LiquidOps · April 26, 2005

So let me get this straight.....

If you plan on going somewhere, with hopes of having your images published at one point, or turning some sort of profit, you must have a model release form signed and completed by any person that is "recognizable" in the photo?

wow... that just kind of busts my bubble. I mean... street shooting is about candids and capturing that moment, not going up and saying, "Hey, ummm... this might be a good picture, can you take the time to fill out this form and sign here please?"

Am I missing something, or do I need to carry release forms with me everywhere I go now?

Thanks,

Steven

wxwax · April 26, 2005

dragon, you have mistakes in this post.

dragon300zx wrote:

If the person in the picture is recognizable yes you do need a model release.

The above is incorrect.

dragon300zx wrote:

Even if you are not making money off the images the magazine, the event, etc.

The above is incorrect.

dragon300zx wrote:

Are making money off of the images. Even if they weren't for a persons photos that can be recognized to be published you need to have a release. Legally you technically should have the release to post them here.

The above is incorrect.

dragon300zx wrote:

Several reasons without it you can be sued, and second what if the person in the photo (i know this is rare and if you want to hide dont get your photo taken but what if) what if that person is hiding from someone. For example, woman hiding from abusive husband, someone hiding from someon who wants to hurt them, etc. I'm sure you get the picture. This person is in hiding you publish the picture and then they get found. Not good. You have to get a release.

The above is almsot entirely incorrect.

Here's the deal. You can take people's pics in public places to your heart's content. You can post them here and on other forums, and give away prints, as long as you're not making money.

If the pics are likely to damage their reputation or lead to their humiliation, you run the risk of being sued. So with those kinds of shots, either get a release or don't post those kinds of pics. News organizations are exempt.

If someone's image is being used for any kind of commercial activity, you need a release. Period. Lots of folks, including here, dance around that issue, figuring the subject will never know. They're taking a risk.

If the magazine is asking for releases, then they figure they're not covered by the Fair Use doctrine, or they're playing it safe. Either way, you need releases.

I don't know enough about the Rennaissance Fair to know if it's a commercial endeavor. If it is, you need model releases.

ginger_55 · April 26, 2005

I, anonymously, who have never submitted, yet, a person who was not an adult family member, without a release, and have never had anything accepted whatsoever, wonder with trepidation re KPOTD. What others are doing in that area, anonymously, of course.

It is a commercial endeavor, or Kodak is. I have good people photos that I have hesitated to use.

Recently I did take some shots of friendly adults doing a sport, I would not hesitate to use them, I do not think they would mind, just feel it in my bones. But so many pictures are going by the wayside because they are of people, and no releases. Alot of them are kids. And I have an issue about kids. I post them all the time, but not on Times Square. These are usually kids whose parents have alot of money and are savvy about their rights and very protective of their kids. Oh, and I think they, or their friends, may travel alot, and NYC is a destination.

ON those releases, I don't like them at all. I would not sign one for my kid, all grown up, but I would not sign one for a kid. Those releases that I have seen say you can do anything you want with the photos. In this day of internet porn, and worse, I hesitate to ask a parent who does not know me to sign such a release. I think they need updating.

Also, the idea of asking everyone who I take a photo of to sign a release fills me with horror. One is that the expectations of the person being photographed could be raised that I would use their picture, and they want it used, and maybe it ends up in the trash, so to speak. I take hundreds of photos. I am often asked if I am with the paper. That is usually asked hopefully with some sort of expectation. Or I am hesitantly asked what I am going to do with the pictures. Those questions are not usually asked as happily. They are usually posed politely but with a bit of wariness. I start dancing at the questions. NOt being a good bender of the truth, I usually mumble something about a group, club, whatever, on the internet. I have never been told to go away, but I have been looked at like I am nuts. The dancing come in as I watch their expressions and try to emphasize that I am not going to harm them.

And I have alot of photos I am afraid to use. I, who park where ever I want, regardless of warnings, risk death, jail time, whatever, to get a picture, food, anything. I am pretty generally, in a small way, lawless......... My husband has drilled it into me not to use my photos with people. He also will not park anywhere without an invitation, he is so law abiding it drives me nuts.

I realized that with these photos I am taking the advice of a man, my husband, whose advice I never take on law abiding issues.

anonymous (I have stolen the identity of the person whose avatar and name appear in anticipation of future lawless activity)

dragon300zx · April 26, 2005

Hmm... Ok. Guess I'll throw away the books I had found that said that. Although I'll still carry the release's just to be on the safe side.

wxwax · April 26, 2005

dragon300zx wrote:

Hmm... Ok. Guess I'll throw away the books I had found that said that. Although I'll still carry the release's just to be on the safe side.

If you ever plan to sell your work, that's an excellent idea.

wxwax · April 26, 2005

Ginger, re: KOPD, I know what a cautious attorney would say: get a release.

imax · April 26, 2005

This is crazy........

Example

If I take a picture at a racetrack like this for example

Or this

or this

I am going to need a signed release from each of them?

It is my understanding that if someone is at an event like this, and the pictures are going to be used as either news reporting or showing the event for future events then releases are not needed.

I guess what it comes down to is getting releases signed for every picture that I intend to sell. But how do I know what I'm going to want to sell and not sell. Like I said, this is crazy.......

wxwax · April 26, 2005

imax wrote:

This is crazy........

Not so crazy if your likeness is used to make money, and you're not getting paid for it. Or if you're humiliated or your reputation is damaged by a photo that shows you in an unfair and unflattering situation.

As I said, Fair Use covers legitimate news organizations. And if you're using the photos for personal stuff, not commerce, then you're OK.

As for promoting an event.... if it's a 'for profit' event, then that promotion is called advertising. You better believe people will want to be recompensed if their likeness is used for advertising.

BTW, read the fine print on the back of tickets for large events. I bet you find language that says the ticket is in essence a contract giving them the right to use any images shot at the event, for their own purposes. 'Them' being the folks who issue the ticket and organize the event, and *not* any person who happens to take a shot at said event.

imax · April 26, 2005

Hey Sid, Thanks for taking the time to discuss this.

It's certainly a grey area and I guess the simplest way to avoid any difficulties in the future would be to get a release signed for each picture. A valuable lesson indeed!

Joe

rutt · April 26, 2005

wxwax wrote:

Here's the deal. You can take people's pics in public places to your heart's content. You can post them here and on other forums, and give away prints, as long as you're not making money.

If someone's image is being used for any kind of commercial activity, you need a release. Period. Lots of folks, including here, dance around that issue, figuring the subject will never know. They're taking a risk.

If the magazine is asking for releases, then they figure they're not covered by the Fair Use doctrine, or they're playing it safe. Either way, you need releases.

I don't know enough about the Rennaissance Fair to know if it's a commercial endeavor. If it is, you need model releases.

I'm a little confused. I took pictures in the Apple Store and posted them here. The Apple Store is certainly a commercial endeavor, but I was certainly not making any money. Did I need a realase from the subjects?

Signed:
Clueless engineer trying to think about the law.

wxwax · April 26, 2005

rutt wrote:

I'm a little confused. I took pictures in the Apple Store and posted them here. The Apple Store is certainly a commercial endeavor, but I was certainly not making any money. Did I need a realase from the subjects?

Signed:
Clueless engineer trying to think about the law.

No, you're fine. You didn't post the pics for financial gain nor for the store's financial gain. You were simply sharing your shots with us.

Now, if Apple wanted to use your shots, then you'd need releases.

wxwax · April 26, 2005

imax wrote:

Hey Sid, Thanks for taking the time to discuss this.

It's certainly a grey area and I guess the simplest way to avoid any difficulties in the future would be to get a release signed for each picture. A valuable lesson indeed!

Joe

Well, for sure if you ever think you might sell the shots. Otherwise, you might find it's a hassle!

Angelo · April 26, 2005

I believe there's some confusion regarding the commercial aspect of a photograph. I'm no lawyer but here's my understanding of two distinct differences based on my advertising and marketing experience.

1) If you use a photograph, in which recognizable individuals appear, for the purposes of promoting or marketing a product or service then you must have releases. Example #1: A photograph of people at a mall used in the mall's proprietary advertising. Example #2: Your situation! The organizers/promoters of the Renaissance Faire will use the photo for their advertising/marketing efforts. In either case, it could be argued that the "client" attempted to avoid modeling fees by using unsuspecting members of the public. In this instance, if the RF has secured their rights with public announcements and they indemnify you contractually you're in a better position. Remember though, we live in a litigious society and people can still file suit against the promoters and you to try to claim damages.

2) If you photograph people at events or in public and then promote your own photographs as works of art and not as merchandising tools for a third party then the law is more on your side and you probably do not need releases. Example #1: You photograph a woman at a mall, sitting surrounded by shopping bags, rubbing her foot and you title it "Shopper's Revenge" - In this instance you are showcasing your artistic ability to frame a photograph, regardless of the content, without "using" someone to their detriment. Keep in mind that unflattering/embarrasing photos do NOT fall into this category precisely for the reason that you would be using the person to their detriment.

Make sense?

There are two very famous photographs floating around for years that two prominent retailers have tried to squash without success. They show a homeless woman walking the streets of NYC carrying a shopping bag (one photo is with a Bloomingdale's bag, the other photo is a Lord & Taylor bag). Keep in mind the common nomenclature "bag lady" and you recognize the humor of these photos. No releases were needed from the homeless women (obviously) and the two giant retailers could not, despite many legal attempts, win their case to kill the pictures. They went so far as to find one of the homeless women and bring her into court, claiming her rights were infringed and still the judge ruled in favor of the photographers.

ginger_55 · April 26, 2005

wxwax wrote:

Ginger, re: KOPD, I know what a cautious attorney would say: get a release.

I guess the answer for me would be to do it the same way I would do all, or most, unlawful things I do, just do what I think is right or can live with. Darn!

Or get away with.............. is more like it. I mean would the repercussions bother me that much.

If a kid got raped, yes, if a parent took me to court in my community, yes. If an adult is on a public beach letting me photograph him/her, the person is not humiliating him/herself, in other words, is not in a bikini (man or woman), I am going to plead all sorts of things where I am not guilty.

In other words, I am not always a law abiding citizen, but in order to live that way, I have to be willing to live with the consequences and not feel guilty about what I have done.

OK, most adults who don't travel to NYC are fair game. Young children whose parents might travel to NYC are not fair game. (I know what about the ones who might not travel, am I not being discriminatory, yes, maybe, I do that sometimes under the heading of consequences and what I can get away with and the potential for danger to anyone.)

And the adults are OK, if I think they have participated in the process by showing off for me. In a non embarrassing fashion. Such as a sport.

There are lots of qualifying aspects, but for me, I know I park where it is illegal, not frequently, but sometimes, you gotta do whatever...........
So I am going to break the law, or not be conservative, I suppose I would say, but I need to have a good story as to why I did it........... and not feel guilt. Guilt just ruins a good defense.

In other words, with kite surfers, say, no idea where to find them, thought they wouldn't mind, etc.

I personally can't mess with kids. Usually. Parents can be vicious these days. The darn media is scaring them.

Everything I do is just for fun, no profits, no gain for anyone.......... I don't think I am living right. If I am going to live dangerously, there should be a gain.

gsgary · April 26, 2005

Do we have this same law in the UK

Gaz

ubergeek · April 26, 2005

Event tickets may be releases
It's been pointed out that at many a professional sporting event, there is probably some language on the back of the ticket pretending to be a contract allowing the event promoters to use your image. Presumably each attendee of the Renaissance Festival purchased a ticket. Notwithstanding arguments as to whether such a "contract" is binding, it's possible that something similar was printed on the tickets for the RenFest (or may have been present at the admission gate). Have you checked yours?

Cheers,
Jeremy

Model Releases Needed In Public Places?

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