New Camera Advice-Motorsports

PalBay

Hey guys I'm new to this forum,although I use SmugMug to post some of my pic's.I'm an amateur car spy photographer and also attend some ALMS races w/ my son.I happen to live in the town where BMW has their North American Auto Plant.They have a test track at the Plant and you also have the opportunity to see test cars around town as the cars are tested by the engineers. Here are a couple of galleries that I just posted: http://palbay.smugmug.com/gallery/5769508_YY8wP/1/356924832_MoLGP http://palbay.smugmug.com/gallery/5763560_adiyz/1/356439066_wXPBz .I've been published in some mainstream auto websites and most of the BMW Auto Forums.This is really a hobby so far....if I sell some pic's down the road that would be great. I shoot now w/ an Olympus SP-550UZ.I got the camera mainly for the 18x zoom.I can't trespass when I shoot at the BMW Plant...most all the shots are long distance.The cars are also traveling at 50-80 MPH when they come by my vantage point.I need to upgrade to a D-SLR camera.I need a fast camera to freeze the speed and at least 10MP.I crop very tight to highlight small details on new prototype cars.I've seen the NikonD40x referred to on this forum as well as other photo forums.Also,was leaning toward the Canon EOS XSi as a very good camera.The XSi is a little more expensive than I really wanted to go.Maybe $500.00 max for the camera only.Sorry for the long post.Any suggestions would be most appreciated!!!!! Thank you very much! PalBay

jjvfx

Here is what I would do if I wanted to only spend $500 on a camera. You could buy a new Canon eos Rebel XTI, or look for a used Canon eos 30d or XTI for that matter. Since you're going to be shooting from a far distance you're looking lenses at 200mm and up without breaking the bank you could buy the Canon Zoom 70-200mm f4.0L. Camera and body around $1000.00. The Canon eos xxd line shoots at a higher frame rate then the Rebels, I would keep that in mind when thinking about cars moving fast also for fast moving objects you need a lens where the auto focus is fast as well.

PalBay

jjvfx wrote:

Here is what I would do if I wanted to only spend $500 on a camera. You could buy a new Canon eos Rebel XTI, or look for a used Canon eos 30d or XTI for that matter. Since you're going to be shooting from a far distance you're looking lenses at 200mm and up without breaking the bank you could buy the Canon Zoom 70-200mm f4.0L. Camera and body around $1000.00. The Canon eos xxd line shoots at a higher frame rate then the Rebels, I would keep that in mind when thinking about cars moving fast also for fast moving objects you need a lens where the auto focus is fast as well.

Thanks for the info!!! PalBay

brncr6

Olympus E-300
The Olympus E-300 is the camera I use with the kit 40-150 and it works well for me. Not very fast but it gets the job done and you might be able to find them pretty cheap now. Very tough camera also.

PalBay

brncr6 wrote:

The Olympus E-300 is the camera I use with the kit 40-150 and it works well for me. Not very fast but it gets the job done and you might be able to find them pretty cheap now. Very tough camera also.

Thanks for the recommendation! PalBay

bato

Choose a brand wisely... I shoot sports wit my Pentax k10d. I love my camera but for sports it not the greatest. There are two limiting factors. Lens selection and fps (frames per second).

If you really get into sports photography your going to want to get some long fast glass. Canon and Nikon are the best choices. The both have a great lens selection. I shoot with a 300mm f2.8 that I had to order from Japan. You'll be able to get easier access to Nikon and Canon lens' locally. You'll also be able to rent them if you want that big lens for that special trip to the track. It's much harder to find places that rent non Nikon/Canon. Big fast glass is $$$$$, but worth the cost if you're really into sports photography. If your shooting a lot of racing, you going to want to get a 300mm. You could start of with a ~70-300mm f4.0-5.6 for a couple hundres dollars and grow to faster glass from there

The other thing that limits me is low fps (~3). The faster the action the more you'll miss while the camera is in between shots. With a high fps, especially shooting car racing, you'll be more apt to get the shot.

$500 is a very small budget to get setup to shoot sports. So prepare for expansion. If you buy a Nikon camera, your pretty much locked into Nikon. So don't just look for what you can get now... think about what you will be adding later as well.

All that being said... The equipment doesn't get the shots. It takes a lot of practice to get good. Luckily it doesn't cost anything to delete a digital image.

This was kind of long. I hope it helped

PalBay

bato wrote:

Choose a brand wisely... I shoot sports wit my Pentax k10d. I love my camera but for sports it not the greatest. There are two limiting factors. Lens selection and fps (frames per second).

If you really get into sports photography your going to want to get some long fast glass. Canon and Nikon are the best choices. The both have a great lens selection. I shoot with a 300mm f2.8 that I had to order from Japan. You'll be able to get easier access to Nikon and Canon lens' locally. You'll also be able to rent them if you want that big lens for that special trip to the track. It's much harder to find places that rent non Nikon/Canon. Big fast glass is $$$$$, but worth the cost if you're really into sports photography. If your shooting a lot of racing, you going to want to get a 300mm. You could start of with a ~70-300mm f4.0-5.6 for a couple hundres dollars and grow to faster glass from there

The other thing that limits me is low fps (~3). The faster the action the more you'll miss while the camera is in between shots. With a high fps, especially shooting car racing, you'll be more apt to get the shot.

$500 is a very small budget to get setup to shoot sports. So prepare for expansion. If you buy a Nikon camera, your pretty much locked into Nikon. So don't just look for what you can get now... think about what you will be adding later as well.

All that being said... The equipment doesn't get the shots. It takes a lot of practice to get good. Luckily it doesn't cost anything to delete a digital image.

This was kind of long. I hope it helped

Absolutely helps! I've kidda been leading toward Nikon...I guess the brand and all that brings to the table.I can go higher than $500 if need be.I appreciate the writeup. Thanks again! PalBay

mercphoto

PalBay wrote:

I need a fast camera to freeze the speed and at least 10MP.I crop very tight to highlight small details on new prototype cars.

Well, to freeze the speed requires a fast shutter, not a fast frames-per-second, and just about any camera you buy will have shutter speeds fast enough to freeze the speed. (Though for motorsports freezing the action is usually NOT what you want to do).

With regards to a high frames-per-second rating that's also not usually a requirement either. If you are using a high f.p.s. so that can hold down the shutter and hope that one of the captures is good you'll not be overly successful. Better to track the action, anticipate the shot you want, and capture that particular shot. Get practiced at anticipating and grabbing just the frame you want, rather than a rapid-fire sequence where you hope something is good. And in this situation a very short shutter lag (the time from pressing the shutter button to the time the image is actually captured) is far more important -- you want a responsive camera.

I've shot an awful lot of karts and MX racing and almost never shot-gunned a sequence, even when I had an 8 f.p.s. 1D Mark II.

PalBay

mercphoto wrote:

Well, to freeze the speed requires a fast shutter, not a fast frames-per-second, and just about any camera you buy will have shutter speeds fast enough to freeze the speed. (Though for motorsports freezing the action is usually NOT what you want to do).

With regards to a high frames-per-second rating that's also not usually a requirement either. If you are using a high f.p.s. so that can hold down the shutter and hope that one of the captures is good you'll not be overly successful. Better to track the action, anticipate the shot you want, and capture that particular shot. Get practiced at anticipating and grabbing just the frame you want, rather than a rapid-fire sequence where you hope something is good. And in this situation a very short shutter lag (the time from pressing the shutter button to the time the image is actually captured) is far more important -- you want a responsive camera.

I've shot an awful lot of karts and MX racing and almost never shot-gunned a sequence, even when I had an 8 f.p.s. 1D Mark II.

Thanks much...what is considered a very short shutter lag time? Is that number published in the camera specs? Thanks again! PalBay

mercphoto

PalBay wrote:

Thanks much...what is considered a very short shutter lag time? Is that number published in the camera specs? Thanks again! PalBay

Just about any dSLR is going to have a short shutter lag, especially compared to point-and-shoot or other fixed-lens cameras. And yes, the shutter lag is often quoted in the camera specs. But, in general, the more expensive the body the shorter the shutter lag.

If you're coming from a P&S that has the typically slow-as-much shutter lag then just about any dSLR will be a huge step up for you. And again, don't sweat the frames-per-second either. Learn to capture the moment YOU want rather than hoping the camera gets it for you by rapid-fire.

PalBay

mercphoto wrote:

Just about any dSLR is going to have a short shutter lag, especially compared to point-and-shoot or other fixed-lens cameras. And yes, the shutter lag is often quoted in the camera specs. But, in general, the more expensive the body the shorter the shutter lag.

If you're coming from a P&S that has the typically slow-as-much shutter lag then just about any dSLR will be a huge step up for you. And again, don't sweat the frames-per-second either. Learn to capture the moment YOU want rather than hoping the camera gets it for you by rapid-fire.

Thanks I appreciate the input.Is the Sony A200 a decent D-SLR camera?The only reason I ask is B&H has that camera w/ a 18-70 and 55-200 lens for 599.00.Price is not the deciding factor for me...but this seems like a good price for the equip you get.Thanks.

JBHotShots

mercphoto wrote:

Just about any dSLR is going to have a short shutter lag, especially compared to point-and-shoot or other fixed-lens cameras. And yes, the shutter lag is often quoted in the camera specs. But, in general, the more expensive the body the shorter the shutter lag.

If you're coming from a P&S that has the typically slow-as-much shutter lag then just about any dSLR will be a huge step up for you. And again, don't sweat the frames-per-second either. Learn to capture the moment YOU want rather than hoping the camera gets it for you by rapid-fire.

What exactly is "shutter lag"? As far as going with Nikon or Canon, ask anyone what they use and that's pretty much what they will try to "sell" you just for the fact that's what they know more about. It's really about preference.

mercphoto Pretty much said it all when he said it's not all about freezing the action all the time. There is a time and situation for it.

I use Canon and have found out that some of my best pictures have come with using a 85mm 1.8 w/o flash. Even though I have the 70-200 2.8L, it quite wide enough to shoot w/o a flash. The 85mm was under $400 and the L was over $1,000.

Here is the most recent gallery of what I am talking about http://www.jbhotshots.com/gallery/5807346_NYEvY#P-9-15.

PalBay

LouDoggsRuca wrote:

What exactly is "shutter lag"? As far as going with Nikon or Canon, ask anyone what they use and that's pretty much what they will try to "sell" you just for the fact that's what they know more about. It's really about preference.

mercphoto Pretty much said it all when he said it's not all about freezing the action all the time. There is a time and situation for it.

I use Canon and have found out that some of my best pictures have come with using a 85mm 1.8 w/o flash. Even though I have the 70-200 2.8L, it quite wide enough to shoot w/o a flash. The 85mm was under $400 and the L was over $1,000.

Here is the most recent gallery of what I am talking about http://www.jbhotshots.com/gallery/5807346_NYEvY#P-9-15.

Cool pics. Thanks for the help!

shoppix

BMW spy shots
I'd look for used canon or nikon high end body. Overalll you'll get more camera for your money than buying new. I'd not consider the Nikon 40/50 or 60. The d80 would be minimum starting point, with the D2 series pro bodies the next step up. Shop around from a reputible dealer. I just bought a used 300mm F4 from KEH. Excellent piece of glass.

In Canon world, the brand which I believe has been primary choice of sports photogs over the years, although back and forth with Nikon, as already suggested a used 30d is good choice. With a higher end body you generally get faster focusing, using same brand of lens. A 70-200 or 70-300, or 100-400 good choices. Since you are always shooting from a distance, the 100-400 type range maybe better.

For lenses, consider getting a 1.4x teleconverter with a lens to extend it's reach.

PalBay

shoppix wrote:

I'd look for used canon or nikon high end body. Overalll you'll get more camera for your money than buying new. I'd not consider the Nikon 40/50 or 60. The d80 would be minimum starting point, with the D2 series pro bodies the next step up. Shop around from a reputible dealer. I just bought a used 300mm F4 from KEH. Excellent piece of glass.

In Canon world, the brand which I believe has been primary choice of sports photogs over the years, although back and forth with Nikon, as already suggested a used 30d is good choice. With a higher end body you generally get faster focusing, using same brand of lens. A 70-200 or 70-300, or 100-400 good choices. Since you are always shooting from a distance, the 100-400 type range maybe better.

For lenses, consider getting a 1.4x teleconverter with a lens to extend it's reach.

I appreciate the info.Thanks!

mercphoto

LouDoggsRuca wrote:

What exactly is "shutter lag"?

Ever used an inexpensive Point and Shoot camera, press the shutter button, and then count to two before it actually takes the shot? That is shutter lag. Its annoying. And it can crater the chance of taking "the moment", especially when doing the of candid and "spy" photography he is doing.

JBHotShots

mercphoto wrote:

Ever used an inexpensive Point and Shoot camera, press the shutter button, and then count to two before it actually takes the shot? That is shutter lag. Its annoying. And it can crater the chance of taking "the moment", especially when doing the of candid and "spy" photography he is doing.

Oh, OK. I thought that was the "buffer time" but it's probably one in the same.

mercphoto

LouDoggsRuca wrote:

Oh, OK. I thought that was the "buffer time" but it's probably one in the same.

Its only the buffer time when its your 8th or 10th or 15th shot in a row. But when it happens on the very first click of the shutter button that has nothing whatsoever to do with how long it takes to empty the buffer to the flash card.

jbr13

If you are leaning toward Nikon, I would not suggest the D40, D40X, or D60 without looking at the lenses they take. These cameras do not have the drive unit to auto focus the AF lenses. They are fully functional with new DX series, but it you want to pick up an older used lens you will have to manually focus. You could get a D70, D50, or D80 used and use almost any Nikon lens with them. The 80-200 F2.8 nikon lense is a good buy used and a very sharp lens, or a used 300mm F4.

J

PalBay

jbr13 wrote:

If you are leaning toward Nikon, I would not suggest the D40, D40X, or D60 without looking at the lenses they take. These cameras do not have the drive unit to auto focus the AF lenses. They are fully functional with new DX series, but it you want to pick up an older used lens you will have to manually focus. You could get a D70, D50, or D80 used and use almost any Nikon lens with them. The 80-200 F2.8 nikon lense is a good buy used and a very sharp lens, or a used 300mm F4.

J

Thanks! PalBay

HarveyMushman

PalBay wrote:

I shoot now w/ an Olympus SP-550UZ.I got the camera mainly for the 18x zoom.I can't trespass when I shoot at the BMW Plant...most all the shots are long distance.

So you have 500mm on the long end, right? It'll be awfully tough to reach that far on a budget with a dSLR. Sigma and Tamron make tele-zooms that will reach 500mm but they won't AF on budget bodies like Nikon's D40x or D60.