Upgrade D50 to Fuji s5 Pro? Photos??

PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
edited September 16, 2008 in Cameras
The fire sale price of $899 Cdn for the s5 is tempting me to upgrade my D50 now vs. saving more for the D300. Anyone able/willing to comment on the pros & cons of the s5 particularly noise management at high ISO and performance in low light (ie concerts)?
I'd also love to see photos taken with this camera.

Thanks,
Patti
The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
... I'm still peeling potatoes.

patti hinton photography

Comments

  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited September 2, 2008
    I can't speak for the Fuji, but I can say save your money and get the D300.

    Google search Fuji s5 pro yields numerous reviews and samples.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=Fuji+s5+pro&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
    www.jonimages.com
  • Shane422Shane422 Registered Users Posts: 460 Major grins
    edited September 2, 2008
    Or just get the Nikon D90. Its got the D300 sensor in it for quite a bit less money. Body is $1000US.
  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    Shane422 wrote:
    Or just get the Nikon D90. Its got the D300 sensor in it for quite a bit less money. Body is $1000US.

    I've thought about that too. I wonder how good it will handle low light high ISO compared to the D300.
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
  • swintonphotoswintonphoto Registered Users Posts: 1,664 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    Nothing beats the wide dynamic range of the S5 pro. For the price, I would go for it. I am a dedicated Olympus user. But, if I was to ever change camps, Fuji would be my first pick.

    Here is discussion regarding its noise: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms5pro/page17.asp
    Jonathan
    http://www.jonathanswinton.com
    http://www.swintoncounseling.com
  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    swintonphoto wrote:
    Nothing beats the wide dynamic range of the S5 pro. For the price, I would go for it. I am a dedicated Olympus user. But, if I was to ever change camps, Fuji would be my first pick.

    Here is discussion regarding its noise: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms5pro/page17.asp

    I took a look at the noise discussion. The s5 produces much softer images based on what I see posted for comparison. Not terribly impressed with the noise either but I'm just a rookie.
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
  • swintonphotoswintonphoto Registered Users Posts: 1,664 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    ]z s
    Patti wrote:
    I took a look at the noise discussion. The s5 produces much softer images based on what I see posted for comparison. Not terribly impressed with the noise either but I'm just a rookie.

    There is no question you will get better high ISO noise results from the D300. It is really superb in this area. The S5 pro is the best camera on the market for wide dynamic range. So, if noise is the most important thing to you than the D300 might be better. The S5 is really well priced now and has an amazing dynamic range. So, whatever is most important to you.
    Jonathan
    http://www.jonathanswinton.com
    http://www.swintoncounseling.com
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,082 moderator
    edited September 3, 2008
    It is true that the FujiFilm S5 Pro has really superb dynanic range and a usable extra 2-3 stops over other dSLRs, but the camera is somewhat lacking in other regards.

    One thing to point out is that the Fuji "Pro" imagers use an unusual pixel array. A result of this arrangement is that the Fuji cameras have to interpret the array from the diagonally shaped arrangement into a standard bi-linear array that all other software and computer hardware can understand, process and display.

    The S5 uses an imager with 6 megapixels sampled by 2 sites per pixel. The 2 photo-sites have different sensitivity and that design difference is what gives the S5 its extended dynamic range (DR). The combining of the 2 sites is done internally for JPGs and in software for the RAWs. Both the 6 megapixel and the 12 megapixel resolutions are interpolated, unlike conventional Bayer designs. (Yes, luminance and chrominance is interpolated but not the "position" which the S5 Pro also has to interpolate.)

    The advantage of the 12 megapixel files is that the interpolation from the 6 megapixel sites into the bi-linear arrangement, and especially using the expanded dynamic range, allows detail extraction similar to that from an 8 megapixel Bayer imager with a traditional pixel layout. Some fine detail responds better and some fine detail responds poorly.

    Bottom line is that in 6 megapixel mode, with the DR extension turned on, I think performance is OK. It is behind the other competing cameras, but if you need the extra DR I think you will be OK. At 12 MP mode and extended DR, the camera slows considerably. In some situations it may feel very sluggish. In RAW mode, it will not seem anything like the Nikon D200 on which it is based. The RAW files are just enormous and take a long time to shove around.

    An additional thing to consider is the extra time it takes to get the most from the files. You must use additional time to compress the extra tonality of the S5 into usable tonality for printing and display. This is not a bad thing, and if you need the extra DR you will be thankful. Just don't think that the S5 will somehow simplify your life, because it demands as much as it gives.

    If you need a digital camera which can produce rich tones in difficult lighting, I think the S5 Pro is an excellent candidate. Just realize that it is a bit of a special purpose tool and there are many circumstances where there might be better choices.

    An S5 Pro in addition to a Nikon D300 would be a killer combination in Nikon lens mount crop format cameras.

    Concert samples from the S5 Pro:

    http://www.pbase.com/kkbut/image/92183298
    http://www.pbase.com/kkbut/image/92183302&exif=Y
    http://www.pbase.com/sjel/image/84643194
    http://www.pbase.com/sjel/image/84643495
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    Shane422 wrote:
    Or just get the Nikon D90. Its got the D300 sensor in it for quite a bit less money. Body is $1000US.
    Cameta Camera in NY is selling the D300 body for ~$1225usd......not very far off the D90 price..............

    Fuji was where AI was headed but they do not have direct hook up to GPS as Nikon does......and I do need that.
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    ziggy53 wrote:
    It is true that the FujiFilm S5 Pro has really superb dynanic range and a usable extra 2-3 stops over other dSLRs, but the camera is somewhat lacking in other regards.

    One thing to point out is that the Fuji "Pro" imagers use an unusual pixel array. A result of this arrangement is that the Fuji cameras have to interpret the array from the diagonally shaped arrangement into a standard bi-linear array that all other software and computer hardware can understand, process and display.

    The S5 uses an imager with 6 megapixels sampled by 2 sites per pixel. The 2 photo-sites have different sensitivity and that design difference is what gives the S5 its extended dynamic range (DR). The combining of the 2 sites is done internally for JPGs and in software for the RAWs. Both the 6 megapixel and the 12 megapixel resolutions are interpolated, unlike conventional Bayer designs. (Yes, luminance and chrominance is interpolated but not the "position" which the S5 Pro also has to interpolate.)

    The advantage of the 12 megapixel files is that the interpolation from the 6 megapixel sites into the bi-linear arrangement, and especially using the expanded dynamic range, allows detail extraction similar to that from an 8 megapixel Bayer imager with a traditional pixel layout. Some fine detail responds better and some fine detail responds poorly.

    Bottom line is that in 6 megapixel mode, with the DR extension turned on, I think performance is OK. It is behind the other competing cameras, but if you need the extra DR I think you will be OK. At 12 MP mode and extended DR, the camera slows considerably. In some situations it may feel very sluggish. In RAW mode, it will not seem anything like the Nikon D200 on which it is based. The RAW files are just enormous and take a long time to shove around.

    An additional thing to consider is the extra time it takes to get the most from the files. You must use additional time to compress the extra tonality of the S5 into usable tonality for printing and display. This is not a bad thing, and if you need the extra DR you will be thankful. Just don't think that the S5 will somehow simplify your life, because it demands as much as it gives.

    If you need a digital camera which can produce rich tones in difficult lighting, I think the S5 Pro is an excellent candidate. Just realize that it is a bit of a special purpose tool and there are many circumstances where there might be better choices.

    An S5 Pro in addition to a Nikon D300 would be a killer combination in Nikon lens mount crop format cameras.

    Concert samples from the S5 Pro:

    http://www.pbase.com/kkbut/image/92183298
    http://www.pbase.com/kkbut/image/92183302&exif=Y
    http://www.pbase.com/sjel/image/84643194
    http://www.pbase.com/sjel/image/84643495


    Thanks for all the info. I've got to say I think my D50 takes as good or better concert photos (mind you I'm not shooting at 2000ISO).
    Does anyone know yet if the D90 has the same low light high ISO performance as the D300 has? I know it has the same sensor.
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,082 moderator
    edited September 3, 2008
    Patti wrote:
    Thanks for all the info. I've got to say I think my D50 takes as good or better concert photos (mind you I'm not shooting at 2000ISO).
    Does anyone know yet if the D90 has the same low light high ISO performance as the D300 has? I know it has the same sensor.

    While there is a lot of speculation about the sensor, and it is the same physical size and resolution as the D300 sensor, Nikon is not saying how the two sensors are related if indeed they are related.

    It appears to be likely that they are very similar and possibly the only significant difference being the number of communications channels from the imager to the processor (similar to the differences between the D80 and D200 imagers.) If the only difference is the speed of transfer then I would expect very similar images from both the D300 and the D90, especially from RAW files.

    There may still be differences in JPG processing etc. so I'm afraid that we will have to wait for more formal reviews to make true distinctions between the two cameras.

    I don't believe that the D90 is in production yet so it will be a while.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    ziggy53 wrote:
    While there is a lot of speculation about the sensor, and it is the same physical size and resolution as the D300 sensor, Nikon is not saying how the two sensors are related if indeed they are related.

    It appears to be likely that they are very similar and possibly the only significant difference being the number of communications channels from the imager to the processor (similar to the differences between the D80 and D200 imagers.) If the only difference is the speed of transfer then I would expect very similar images from both the D300 and the D90, especially from RAW files.

    There may still be differences in JPG processing etc. so I'm afraid that we will have to wait for more formal reviews to make true distinctions between the two cameras.

    I don't believe that the D90 is in production yet so it will be a while.

    Thanks ziggy. Isn't the D90 set for late Sept. release or am I dreaming?
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    I want to ammend my original advise.

    If you want the absolute best low noise performance, save up for the D700. You will get a greater bang for the buck than going from a D50 to the fuji or D300. I have both the D300 and D700 and I have to say the there is a better noise performance with the D300 over the D50, but the D700 makes both of them pale in comparison.

    I would not get the D300 or Fuji if noise performance is or a major reason to upgrade.
    www.jonimages.com
  • kini62kini62 Registered Users Posts: 441 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    Patti wrote:
    Thanks for all the info. I've got to say I think my D50 takes as good or better concert photos (mind you I'm not shooting at 2000ISO).
    Does anyone know yet if the D90 has the same low light high ISO performance as the D300 has? I know it has the same sensor.

    I read (can't remember wherene_nau.gif ) that the D90 uses a Nikon made sensor (whoever it is that makes "Nikon" sensors) and that the D300 uses the Sony made sensor it shares with the A700.

    Given the video mode I would have to think that they are indeed different sensors.

    And if anything the D90 (if it is a new sensor) would have at least as good if not better high ISO performance as the D300, which IMHO is OK to about 1600 but then NR leads to too much loss in detail. But hey, I'm a Canon guy:ivar

    Gene
  • Shane422Shane422 Registered Users Posts: 460 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    kini62 wrote:
    I read (can't remember wherene_nau.gif ) that the D90 uses a Nikon made sensor (whoever it is that makes "Nikon" sensors) and that the D300 uses the Sony made sensor it shares with the A700.

    Given the video mode I would have to think that they are indeed different sensors.

    And if anything the D90 (if it is a new sensor) would have at least as good if not better high ISO performance as the D300, which IMHO is OK to about 1600 but then NR leads to too much loss in detail. But hey, I'm a Canon guy:ivar

    Gene

    The video comes off of the live view sensor. So the main sensor can still be the same sensor as the D300. No one knows for sure, but the speculation is that the D90 might have a bit better High ISO performance over the D300 merely from having a newer processor. We'll know for sure in a few weeks.
  • hschlessphotohschlessphoto Registered Users Posts: 207 Major grins
    edited September 3, 2008
    I'm thinking of getting a D90. I have a D50, too, and I mostly want better low-light performance. I think the D90's is supposed to be pretty solid, which isall i need after the red+noisy images from last year's basketball season.


    Something to think about, though, is your lenses. Will they convert?
    www.hankschlessphoto.com

    Follow me on Instagram! @hankschlessphoto

    Nikon D90, 85mm f/1.8, 18-70mm f/3.5, 70-300mm f/4.5, Nikon SB-800, MX-600 tripod
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited September 4, 2008
    Here's a link comparing the D90 to the D300 and other cameras. For what it's worth, I think having the mode changed by buttons instead of a dial is something to consider. With the D50, the dial can be easily changed by accident to another mode. With pro-style mode switching, there is little chance of shooting in a mode not chosen.

    http://www.digitalreview.ca/content/Nikon-D90-D80-D300-Canon-50D-Compared.shtml#D90_D300
    www.jonimages.com
  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 4, 2008
    Shane422 wrote:
    The video comes off of the live view sensor. So the main sensor can still be the same sensor as the D300. No one knows for sure, but the speculation is that the D90 might have a bit better High ISO performance over the D300 merely from having a newer processor. We'll know for sure in a few weeks.

    Here's hoping that is true. If so, there may be a D90 in my future. Apart from the added expense of the D300, I'm concerned about the weight and size of that body. Small hands, carpal tunnel...and how do I get THAT body into concerts???
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 4, 2008
    jonh68 wrote:
    Here's a link comparing the D90 to the D300 and other cameras. For what it's worth, I think having the mode changed by buttons instead of a dial is something to consider. With the D50, the dial can be easily changed by accident to another mode. With pro-style mode switching, there is little chance of shooting in a mode not chosen.

    http://www.digitalreview.ca/content/Nikon-D90-D80-D300-Canon-50D-Compared.shtml#D90_D300

    No kidding. It's a pain, that and having to route thru menus to change settings in a hurry. Grrrrrrrrrrgerg.gif

    Anyone know if the D90 allows wireless release which is not available on the D50? Also, is there slave capability?

    I pre-ordered one yesterday to at least take a look at when they arrive. I was told that the 'body only' packages won't be shipped till Nov. What's with that?? The last thing I need is another kit lens. Been there, done that.
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
  • nightowlcatnightowlcat Registered Users Posts: 188 Major grins
    edited September 4, 2008
    On Nikon's web site for the D90, I checked the accessories and it shows this, same one that works with the D50 :)
  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 4, 2008
    nightowlcat wrote:
    On Nikon's web site for the D90, I checked the accessories and it shows this, same one that works with the D50 :)

    Yeah but it's infrared requiring line of sight to work ie. can't be standing behind the camera or off to the side. The D50 doesn't even have capabilty to use a plug in remote release.
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 6, 2008
    jonh68 wrote:
    I want to ammend my original advise.

    If you want the absolute best low noise performance, save up for the D700. You will get a greater bang for the buck than going from a D50 to the fuji or D300. I have both the D300 and D700 and I have to say the there is a better noise performance with the D300 over the D50, but the D700 makes both of them pale in comparison.

    I would not get the D300 or Fuji if noise performance is or a major reason to upgrade.

    I had a D700 in my hands yesterday. I think I'm in love. iloveyou.gifiloveyou.gifiloveyou.gif I wish I had the $$$ to buy that little baby. Yowzer it's sharp and ISO 6400 in low light is actually useable. They're not joking.
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 6, 2008
    Here are a few taken today with a s5 PRO that I borrowed for the weekend. I love the colour out of the camera. Even with my 85mm 1.4D it's not as sharp as I'd hoped but that could easily be a case of the camera being in rookie hands of an amateur.

    2833323641_9cb94428c4_b.jpg


    2832988717_16b2970c1b_b.jpg

    2833995158_52c9d2edf5_b.jpg
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 15, 2008
    Ever feel like you're talking to yourself. Well self, I bought the Fuji S5 Pro today. Really? How's the colour? Fantastic!
    iloveyou.gif
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
  • swintonphotoswintonphoto Registered Users Posts: 1,664 Major grins
    edited September 16, 2008
    Patti wrote:
    Ever feel like you're talking to yourself. Well self, I bought the Fuji S5 Pro today. Really? How's the colour? Fantastic!
    iloveyou.gif

    Congratulations! I have always wanted to try one. Lets see some more pixs!
    Jonathan
    http://www.jonathanswinton.com
    http://www.swintoncounseling.com
  • PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited September 16, 2008
    ]
    swintonphoto wrote:
    Congratulations! I have always wanted to try one. Lets see some more pixs!

    Wellllllll if you insist.... mwink.gif

    2861351632_ef891b751e_o.jpg

    2856729605_0d0a3c5dca_o.jpg
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
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