Questions regarding day-rate, etc

FatNakedGuy

Hey all!

I enjoy shooting concerts and only shoot bands that interest me. I will allow the bands to link to my galleries free of charge to share the images with their fans, etc. All images are watermarked and right-click protected, and if someone is interested in purchasing a print, the option is there for them. I do not actively try to sell the images shot (I've got a great day-job that pays the bills).

In the past, bands would ask for a specific image for promotional/merchandise usage and I'd create a contract with usage rights and payment terms. More often than not now, bands are wanting the entire collection of images on CD for promotional/merchandise/website usage, and they do not want to pay an arm & leg for them (you should hear all the sad stories I get about how they are all broke and can only offer me photo credit, and how important is to my career for credit, etc... too bad for them I was a fellow touring recording artist in my past life and had to have a budget for images just like everyone else).

My question is, when a band wants the images for commercial usage, how does one go about being fairly compensated for time spent shooting the event as well as for the licensing usage of hundreds of images?

Do I charge a 1/2 day rate of say $450 for my time spent on the 1 hour shoot, travel time, and 2 hours of processing, PLUS create a contract with specific licensing fees for the hundreds of images on top of that? And how does one determine licensing for hundreds of images? Or is it just the 1/2 day rate and they get the CD? (I don't think this would be right)

I'd like to help these folks out but refuse to give away my work for free or lose rights to the images when they stand to make money from them.

Thanks for any info you may have, I really appreciate it.


Rick
http://weller.smugmug.com/music

KMCC

I think that you're on the right track with what you've outlined.

You might find this information helpful: http://tinyurl.com/qlxkq

I'm always amused when folks who want photographs for free attempt to justify their request by suggesting that it will somehow be "important to (the photographer's) career" to let them have them for nothing.

As if they're doing the photographer a great favor and getting absolutely no value from the photographs themselves.

From time to time, I get requests from regional publications for permission to use my photographs for free. After quoting them my rate for use of the photographs, they typically reply that they don't pay for photographs. (This happened again yesterday, as a matter of fact.)

In one case recently, I asked if the publication charged its clients for all of the advertising that they publish. When my contact said, "Of course!", I asked, "Then why do you believe that I should be willing to just give away my photographs?"

He smiled and walked off.

Mr. 2H2O

Rick,
I checked your galleries - nice work - I've shot stage also and you do a very nice job.

If I'm contracted to shoot an event whether it a concert or corporate gathering, I have a per hour charge that I use as a guideline for the total cost in the contract which covers my time at the event. I know about how many images I produce per hour so the charge covers the post-processing. The fee also covers rights to the digital images and to print for the organization's use, but not promotional/commercial use or use outside of the organization.

For promotional use, I have a fee for an image under a seperate contract. That way, it I take 500 pics and cull it down to 300 or so and one or two of them stand out for the client who wants to use it for adverts or commercial use, they can obtain rights under seperate contracts which list the fee per image.

I would recommend considering a fee for promotional use per image. You can search the threads for folk's opinions about how to determine the fees and come up with something that seems reasonable for you but also keep in mind the fee should also be "saleable" - meaning the client would be willing to pay the price you would list.

- Mike

davidweaver

FatNakedGuy wrote:

...All images are watermarked and right-click protected,

Doesn't matter.

...I do not actively try to sell the images shot (I've got a great day-job that pays the bills).

Nice that you are a hobbyist. It is not a put down at all as every pro I know started that way. There is a substantial difference between pro-pricing and hobbyist-pricing. Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist at all except hobbyist pricing beats up on the pros sometimes.

For the rest of your post...
Bands don't make a lot (how many of them have day jobs?)
Ask them what they would pay.
Get CDs...makes for good holiday gifts.
Get credits.

If you piss them off then they won't work with you and there are others in hte wings that will give their work away to them.

It is not a market I would suggest cultivating. I know. Still, I do a lot of band work and have lots of credits and free shows I can attend. I've even been courted to follow along on a road trip to shot. For a fee, of course. :-)

My calculation of the fee was based upon what I could normally make over that period of time plus a meal/travel allowance. Its easy to justify that rate when they ask where I came up with that number. So if you take time off from work the sum of the fee+experience gained needs to equal the income you would have made in your other job over the same period of time.


Good luck.
David

FatNakedGuy

Thanks everyone for your input. I opted for 1/2 day rate of $450 + usage fees for a year (using fotoQuote). Haven't heard back so am assuming it didn't fly. No big deal.

And you are absolutely correct in that there are better avenues of work than concert photography. Almost EVERY SINGLE artist I have worked with has tried to get free images or offered extremely valuable photo credit in return..

I used to be a touring musician in a past life so am drawn to the stage, guess that is why I enjoy it. I'm working on portrait and landscape now though as I realize stage won't bring any $ to buy new equipment.