Event photo usage rights?
Marlowe
Registered Users Posts: 219 Major grins
Hi , I'm an event photog in Canada and I've generously (I thought) offered to donate (with a few restrictions - I made myself clear on limited rights) a few high-res jpegs for promo ONLY for a local event which will attract national attention within the cycling community. The organizer emailed me back with the following:
"basically we are fine with your terms except for the period of time. We expect that those people who use the functions we finance to take photographs of for personal or news purposes to give us unlimited length of use licence for promotion of our activities; advertising, promotion and/or editorial usage. While every effort will be made to give photo credit, it cannot be guaranteed. These terms have been acceptable even to news photographers with the caveat that if a photo they take is sold to another body we won't use it without ensuring first that such use doesn't breach the licence they issued to the buying body. It is the photographer's obligation to notify us of limitation of use. Hopefully this is acceptable to yourself.
"basically we are fine with your terms except for the period of time. We expect that those people who use the functions we finance to take photographs of for personal or news purposes to give us unlimited length of use licence for promotion of our activities; advertising, promotion and/or editorial usage. While every effort will be made to give photo credit, it cannot be guaranteed. These terms have been acceptable even to news photographers with the caveat that if a photo they take is sold to another body we won't use it without ensuring first that such use doesn't breach the licence they issued to the buying body. It is the photographer's obligation to notify us of limitation of use. Hopefully this is acceptable to yourself.
Jon, we do not grant sponsors rights to use the photos for two primary reasons:
- to date there has not been a contract between ourselves and our sponsors for permission to use other than in company internal communications ("see what we're involved with" news and marketing reports communications) and
- because the waiver signed by all participants limits the use of their images to that of promoting the sport but does not grant said rights for commercial purposes such as endorsements.
Note, do not take from this correspondence that we do grant any photographer rights to take photos of individuals at our events for commercial non news purposes. Note, just because we do not charge admission to our events that we do not have copyright to them and the images arising from them. But currently we feel the rights to use said images issue is between yourself and the person whose image you took and it is not a matter that we wish to get involved with. Jon, I don't wish to get into a discussion of rights to use images from such forms other than to say my copyright lawyer has Quebec case law where an individual has successfully sued for such breach of their likeness rights when the photo was taken in a public, streetscape venue. To put it into context, it was an image photographed by a professional and latter used in an advertising campaign so the sums were worth suing for versus a few dollars for copies of a photo like you are charging.
Jon as mentioned hopefully these terms are acceptable to you. If yes, we prefer raw, uncropped images, the largest file size possible and if and when you post them to the FTP site kindly identify the folder as "photocredit - copyright photographer's name".
Thank you"
Just wondered what you all thought of this or if you've heard this before. Whould you be OK with this? It's the 2nd last paragraph in particular that bothers me. I've done other events for which I've been paid, NO problems. I thought I was providing a service shooting numerous local events (a few organised by this person) for which I have many online albums. As a photographer granting limited use of MY photos ( for FREE!) I thought I was the one who dictated the terms.
Any thoughts/recommendations? This event is two months from now.
Jon
- to date there has not been a contract between ourselves and our sponsors for permission to use other than in company internal communications ("see what we're involved with" news and marketing reports communications) and
- because the waiver signed by all participants limits the use of their images to that of promoting the sport but does not grant said rights for commercial purposes such as endorsements.
Note, do not take from this correspondence that we do grant any photographer rights to take photos of individuals at our events for commercial non news purposes. Note, just because we do not charge admission to our events that we do not have copyright to them and the images arising from them. But currently we feel the rights to use said images issue is between yourself and the person whose image you took and it is not a matter that we wish to get involved with. Jon, I don't wish to get into a discussion of rights to use images from such forms other than to say my copyright lawyer has Quebec case law where an individual has successfully sued for such breach of their likeness rights when the photo was taken in a public, streetscape venue. To put it into context, it was an image photographed by a professional and latter used in an advertising campaign so the sums were worth suing for versus a few dollars for copies of a photo like you are charging.
Jon as mentioned hopefully these terms are acceptable to you. If yes, we prefer raw, uncropped images, the largest file size possible and if and when you post them to the FTP site kindly identify the folder as "photocredit - copyright photographer's name".
Thank you"
Just wondered what you all thought of this or if you've heard this before. Whould you be OK with this? It's the 2nd last paragraph in particular that bothers me. I've done other events for which I've been paid, NO problems. I thought I was providing a service shooting numerous local events (a few organised by this person) for which I have many online albums. As a photographer granting limited use of MY photos ( for FREE!) I thought I was the one who dictated the terms.
Any thoughts/recommendations? This event is two months from now.
Jon
0
Comments
Is this a private event that they are giving you credentials for? If so, then they can dictate the terms by making you sign an agreement in order to obtain the credential to shoot the event. In this case you have 3 options:
1) Sign the agreement and agree to their terms
2) IF you are not in agreement to the terms, then renegotiate the terms and get that in writing
3) If you don't like options 1 or 2 , then pass up the credentialled access to the event
I guess I'm unclear about what you would be getting out of this- do you sell these photos as stock photos? Do you sell to the participants? It doesn't sound like he is restricting how you can market these photos ( except for the part about not using participants photos commercially). He just wants total access to the photos you give him, without even having to credit you as the photog.
Also, don't take what he says in an email as a binding contract- be sure that everything is spelled out in the contract that you sign with him.
I keep hearing he's not making anything off promoting these events but he usually lists a good number of sponsors, and even though he continues to use images I gave him over a year ago for one poster for distribution in local middle schools to get the kids out, if anything, I only see my name in small print in a corner of the promo poster or online event listing.
I guess he feels he can get shots from any number of other photogs at these events, why pay me. I've more or less decided not to give him anything this time, I just wondered if any of you have dealt with this attitude before.
Thanks,
Jon
www.cxphotos.smugmug.com/Cyclocross%202007
I shoot rockstars with LOTS of $$ and when they start playing that FOR FREE game, I cut them off, no exceptions. Everyone wants something for nothing these days...
Nice shots! Ever see these nuts race in the snow? I shot one of their events a couple years ago and it was crazy.
http://www.cxphotos.smugmug.com/Cyclocross%202007/439394
Jon
It is my understanding that (generally) if an organization has obtained rights to use a public park for a commercial purpose such an event, they have control of what goes on at that event. You, for instance, can't just wonder in an set up a concession booth. You need the promoter's permission. Same with pix.
On top of that, many (of not most) municipalities have by-laws regulating commercial photography in public spaces. To shoot a wedding in a public garden, for instance, you generally require a permit from the municipality.
And always keep in mind that, if you are using someone's likeness in a commercial way, you almost certainly need their permission -- even if the pic was shot in a public space.
Now there's a lousy deal.
(subject to local legislation) you both have the right to dictate terms on the use of photography - as the organiser of the event they may be able to claim that their IPR is infringed if any old tog comes along and photographs the event- e.g. Red Bull Air Race allow photography but not the commercial use of any photography and the Premiership (UK football/soccer top-tier) wouldn't let you take photos for free and stick them on your website either.
Of course you own the copyright of the images and can negotiate their acceptable usage, though if they're not happy they might walk away and not grant you the right to use the photos you took commercially, (or if held privately not admit you).
From the looks of things they 'allow' you to photograph the event and say that they 'could' insist you don't use them for commercial use. They then go on to say they don't mind really and you just negotiate with the subject of the photo.
The issue is your not providing a service to them - you may want to but really they are saying, it's OK for you to come and photo our event, and even sell the photos, as long as you give us a copy. Whether the prestige and nature of the event means this is a good deal for you, is for you to decide - if it was the Superbowl/Olympics Opening Ceremony then hell yes, if it's a small town bike ride perhaps not.
PS Other crafty approach is used by the Thames Festival www.thamesfestival.org - a major event in London - rather than use pro photographers they hold a 'photography competition' with T&Cs that photos can be used in publicity. Ratbags!