Volleyball: Shooting advice sought
rockcanyonphotos
Registered Users Posts: 117 Major grins
Based on your experience I am looking for advice on shooting HS volleyball. In particular:
1) best lens to use (I have a choice of 70-200/f2.8, 200mm/f1.8, 85mm/f1.8)
2) best locations (ie., by the net, in the stands, behind the endlines)
3) type of shots to work for (diggs, net action, serve, etc)
4) lighting (strobes are not an option for me, I can do high ISO or EX580 flash)
If you have galleries of volleyball work you can point me to so I can get a better sense of what you are suggesting that would be a bonus :-)
Regards, Kevin
1) best lens to use (I have a choice of 70-200/f2.8, 200mm/f1.8, 85mm/f1.8)
2) best locations (ie., by the net, in the stands, behind the endlines)
3) type of shots to work for (diggs, net action, serve, etc)
4) lighting (strobes are not an option for me, I can do high ISO or EX580 flash)
If you have galleries of volleyball work you can point me to so I can get a better sense of what you are suggesting that would be a bonus :-)
Regards, Kevin
0
Comments
1) Corner of the court. This way you can shoot down the line for close saves, and gives a good 'through the traffic' look at the net. From here I shoot serves and try to get a dig or two.
2) Parallel to the front line players. From here I look to shoot our team through the net. I like the angle with 2-3 of our girls in the air blocking a shot.
3) Parallel to the net. From here I shoot into our girls, looking for facial expressions, digs, blocks and the occasional spike. NOTE: It's stupid hard to get focus right from parallel to the net (in my experience.) Perhaps you'll have better luck.
Have fun!
"Your decisions on whether to buy, when to buy and what to buy should depend on careful consideration of your needs primarily, with a little of your wants thrown in for enjoyment, After all photography is a hobby, even for pros."
~Herbert Keppler
there are tons of threads about this.
but I find that only the 70-200 2.8 to be usefull ... i frame too randomly and too quickly to want to crop all of the photos from an 85mm standpoint...
i hear that for high school you need 3200 iso and 1.8 F but i don't like that idea
then again i only shoot for college d 1 shots... but have also done indoor stuff for high school level and been fine with 1600 and 2.8 ....
also the 2.8 zoom will be usefull for everything else in life too!
i sugges that one
hit up my flickr for numerous examples of the 70-200 2.8IS
http://stridephoto.carbonmade.com
When you shoot at the ends of the court, pre-focus on the girls at the net before the ball is served. The action will take place at the net so you may not have to focus too much, just shoot when the action takes place at the are you focused on. A 200mm lens is great for the ends of the court, and even a 300mm is nice too if you really want to fill the frame.
Whatever you do, make sure you get on the side of the spikers where their right arm is not coming across their face if you shoot from the side since most will be right handed. If the girl is left handed, adjust accordingly.
Try different angles and see which ones work best for your lenses. If you shoot with a 85mm, getting behind the benches and shooting towards the net is good, and getting digs from the side is good. For digs, getting midcourt, or even slightly to one side is good at getting digs kind of straight on. If you do get on the floor like that, I recommend NO FLASH.
Get in the stands and shoot down too. The lighting will be better as the light falls on their faces and reflects back up.
JOHNG: a few clarifying questions... for pre-focusing do you mean just focusing on the net using AF so you are locked in close to what you want or are you suggesting going MF? If AF, do you adjust your main focus point up from dead center to try and avoid focusing on the net as the players elevate above it? same on the ground level shots... do you find picking a higher AF point helps?
Also, for bouncing the flash, do you expose for ambient and use the flash to fill on auto or do you under expose and have the flash freeze the shot?
FOR ALL, do you prefer shooting VB in landscape or portrait? Also, no one really mentioned getting the server, I know it is probably the tried and true shot that everyone gets but I always thought of those as my "safety" shots.
regards and thanks again, kevin
Canon 1DM4, 300mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 200mm 1.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 85mm 1.8
What this does is allow me to pre-focus on the net while still in AF, or the girls just behind the net. I can take pics without focusing, or I can AF on the action to areas around the net. If you take pics pre-focusing, you run the chance of not having the action focused, but you also get the shot of the action quicker too rather than waiting on AF. Having the shot set at shutter+release gives you the benefit of manual focus, but still retaining AF when the action takes place in other areas.
I usually pre-focus like this when I am at the end of the courts when I can get the action right at the net. When I am in other part of the court, like to the side, I will still pre-focus on a girl or area when there is a serve and I want to get the dig, but I will use AF after that. Pre-focusing on one area/girl before the play helps the camera be in the ball park when you do AF.
I also use that for baseball. I will get focused on the batter, then move slightly ahead of the batter and fire away when the ball gets in frame.
P.S. I probably made that more complicated than it really is. Basically, I have my camera set so I can take a pic regardless if the subject is focused, but I am still in AF. I focus on the net and then fire away. Some shots are OOF, some are not, but you get some good action when the focus is in the spot you pre-focus on. Since most of the action you get at the end of the courts is the net anyway, it's a way to limit the AF without actually limiting AF if that makes sense. Other times I will just follow the ball and use AF, but in bad light, slow focusing lens, I get just as many OOF shots if I just focus on one area and wait for the action to take place there.
kevin
Canon 1DM4, 300mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 200mm 1.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 85mm 1.8
You can play with SS and see if you can get faster SS with flash if your camera and flash allow you to get faster than sync speed.
i will say in the gyms I shoot, 2.8 requires higher than ISO 1600 - standard settiings in gyms around me are 1/400-1/500 ISO 3200 f2.8. So if you're going to go the non-flash route be prepared for high ISO with your 2.8 lenses.
The 85 1.8 should be a really great lens for this - many sports shooters use this for basketball you'll be roughly the same distance from your subjects as well if you plan on moving around the baseline.
Conversely, if you can find a slightly further out position from the action, I imagine the 200 1.8 would give some really great shots. Which lens is this, by the way? I didn't know there was a 200mm 1.8 lens available. Is this an older lens, perhaps? Just curious...
Regardless, good luck shooting the match and please share your results so others can learn from you as well.
www.rfcphotography.com
kevin
Canon 1DM4, 300mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 200mm 1.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 85mm 1.8
I would say that the best spot for photos is to be on the side of the court like i_worship_the_King pointed out. This gives you access to frontal shots of the back row to catch digs, setters and such. You will also be able to get good OH/RH Kill shots when they are on the other side from you. The 85 is too close to get ones on your side. You can move to the other side of the net to get the block shots thru the net. Just need to make sure you camera doesnt focus on the net. If you find this happening, increase aperature to get DOF thru net. You will also be able to get the serve shots, and catch their faces as they serve.
If stuck at the end of the court, you should always be on the right side. This will ensure the line judge doesnt get in your way. From your side, you can get some good OH kill shots. The only other shots that will be good are of the setter. The rest will be mainly pics of people backs, which are not always good.
If you go to the opposing end, you can get some good blocking and kill shots thru the net. When I have my 1.8 lens on, I will close it down to 2.0 to get the DOF needed in case my camera focuses on the net.
I use Manual except focus for all of these shots . I take test shots while they are warming up, and set everything manual. SS - 1/160th will get some blurr of ball and arms. Aperature 1.8-2.0. The gym I took the pics in my link were at ISO 400 which is great for most Gyms.
For focus, I will set up the camera to use 1-focus point. I always take the pictures vertically/portrait, so I adjust the focus point usually 1-2 right of center, which puts them up from center in vertical. This will ensure you get enough of the girls jumping to catch distance above the court they are jumping, and swing of arms with ball in the frame.
FLASH is always a NO-NO. Most judges will stop you, and you should refrain from using it even if they dont object. It will cause your players to see spots, and affect their play. Unless you are going to use it on the opposing team!
Dont know if this is what you were hunting for, just figured I would pass on my experiences! Good luck, and crank up the FPS!
Mike
http://beatyphoto.smugmug.com/
Kevin -
I'm shooting vball with a 50mm 1.7, which is not ideal.
As I get more brave with higher ISOs I may use a different lens.
But to compensate, I often get behind the ref, on the floor.
That way I can get a lot of shots all over the court. Usually the
ref doesn't mind my being there, or even notice.
Bob
http://atlantasports.smugmug.com/gallery/5763167_NuH3X/1/367719854_uEbEK
I have shot volleyball in MS and AL and have not been told not use flash. It depends on the arena. When I am close to the court, I will not use a flash, but if I am at the ends or in the stands using a zoom, I will use flash to fill in the light. When you bounce, the effect is not as bad as straight on flash. Coaches will let you know if it affects players because their jobs depend on good play by their players.
Thanks for taking the time to offer your experiences.
regards, kevin
Canon 1DM4, 300mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 200mm 1.8, 24-70mm 2.8, 85mm 1.8
Fixed it for you. I read your post, and looked at your sight.
SS of 1/160 are too slow for ANY sport.
ISO 400 is too low for any indoor sports. Thats why many of your shots are blurry.
You're shooting a D300. Crank up the ISO. You can shoot it at ISO 800-1000, without having to use any NR software. Which means you can at least double your SS, and cut down on blurry photos.
And don't be afraid to shoot at ISO 1600 and above. With some NR, you can still get some good shots.
http://www.knippixels.com
And just in case it's a bright gym
http://www.knippixels.com
I tend to use my 28-70/2.8 the most as it gives me the option of widening out the shot or getting somewhat up close so I don't have to crop as much. I like to sit on the floor along the net a lot and I'll shoot our girls on their side of the net and sometimes through the net as well. I also roam up and down the sidelines taking other shots (serves, diggs, etc.). Getting closer to the action is easier with club games than school (middle/high) as the courts are typically much closer together and therefore you are basically forced on top of the action. I occassionally use my 80-200/2.8 with the club games but I find that I'm sometimes too close and miss something that a wider lenses may have caught (and which I can crop to). For school games, the 80-200 is handier as you're typically in the stands and can better make use of the greater zoom. School refs/coaches will let
you get "close to the action" next to the court but ALWAYS ask them if it's OK before the match so you're not just suddenly down there without permission (you may see school photogs roaming about but they're kids and are supposed to be there).
A word of advice on the flash - you should NEVER, EVER use it for volleyball (or any indoor sport for that matter). If the refs don't ask you to stop doing it, I will if I'm around. My daughters have been playing for 6+ years (the youngest is still going strong at 13, her club team finished 13th overall at the Junior Olympics this year losing in the 1/4 finals to the team that won it all) and using flash is something that is never allowed. Flash is distracting and can actually temporarily blind one of the participants during play. CLub tournaments tend to be in facilities with better lighting whereas school games are in gyms but I've been to games where you think they're playing in caves in both cases so be prepared to crank up the ISO if you have to.
I hope this helps.
Nikon D3/D80, Nikkor 80-200/2.8, 28-70/2.8, SB800
Again, it depends on the arena. I shot basketball under the goal,baseline, and bounce flashing off the back wall. Not one complaint. I'm sorry, but as a parent, the arena is not yours to make demands like that. It is up to the refs, coaches, and administration, not parents.
Frankly, I should not have to say anything to anyone because common sense and courtesy should prevail, but if someone is using a flash - particularly in club volleyball where they are VERY close to the action - then I will say something to the ref first if they happen to miss it. If the people persist, then I will say something directly. If my daughter is on the court and they are using a flash that is either distracting or possibly harmful, it is certainly my option to request that it not be done. I am sure there are rules about using flash in most of the tournaments at the various venues but they don't typically hand those out to the average person in the crowd. I have never been to a match - club, middle or high school - where you were allowed to use a flash. I'm sure college is different but you certainly aren't going to be clsoe to the court for those games (unless you are the offiicial photographer) but if you have a decent camera the lighting in college arenas is very good so you shouldn't need one anyway (I've never seen them used at college games either for that matter). Further, given where many tournaments are held (large convention or club facilities), the ceilings are very high and getting anything useful from a bounce flash is most likely not going to happen anyway.
Nikon D3/D80, Nikkor 80-200/2.8, 28-70/2.8, SB800
It shouldn't be about what you can get away with it should be about conforming to the rules and regulations in place. At the end of the day these events aren't put on for the benefit of the photographer. Doing your homework prior to the event will forestall any issues with either officials, coaches or parents.
Again, situations are different. In Ohio, the OHSAA and every High School I've shot in allows flash use for basketball and wrestling but does NOT allow it for volleyball or gymnastics. I only point this out to show that rules can be specific to the sport and not necessarily the venue. You really want approval from the sport's governing body (if there is one) and from the venue at a minimum. Even if no one stops you, you don't want a coach to file a complaint after the fact - you suffer and potentially the team you are covering suffers.
The latest pics, I bumped up the SS to 1/200, and got some better pics. I also had to increase ISO 800. I hate noise, so I keep away from higher ISO. I do like a little blur from motion, but not blur from me moving!
Thanks,
Mike
If there is a rule of no flash, then you have every right to say something. If your team travels to a venue or the governing body allows flash, you don't. I am with you on not using flash as I don't like using it. However, to make a blanket statment that NO FLASH should be used is just plain wrong. I have yet to shoot in a venue that doesn't allow flash.
I have been asked by coaches not to use flash when positioned on the court by the players and I have done so. It depends on the situation.