Settings for 580EXll Flash

canon400d

I have a Canon Speedlite 580EXll and I have never really known the guidelines or the correct settings for indoor and outdoor usage. I also use a diffuser which is attached at all times. Am I doing right to keep it on all the time? My settings appear to be ETTL - M Zoom - 14mm. If anyone can help me on this one I would really appreciate it.
Regards
Bob

LiquidAir

canon400d wrote:

I have a Canon Speedlite 580EXll and I have never really known the guidelines or the correct settings for indoor and outdoor usage. I also use a diffuser which is attached at all times. Am I doing right to keep it on all the time? My settings appear to be ETTL - M Zoom - 14mm. If anyone can help me on this one I would really appreciate it.
Regards
Bob

The diffuser is a special purpose tool and you should only use it occasionally. In particular the diffuser only helps when you are in a small enough space that there are walls to bounce the light so you can fill the room; as a general guideline you should only use it in small rooms with relatively neutral walls.

urbanaries

I recommend everyone new to the Canon Speedlite system watch this DVD...great return on the $20 and an hour's time

I personally find the manuals to the lighting accessories in the Canon lineup sorely lacking versus the camera and lens.

canon400d

LiquidAir wrote:

The diffuser is a special purpose tool and you should only use it occasionally. In particular the diffuser only helps when you are in a small enough space that there are walls to bounce the light so you can fill the room; as a general guideline you should only use it in small rooms with relatively neutral walls.

Thanks Liquidair, for the advice of using the diffuser. I will certainly do that in future.
Regards
Bob

canon400d

urbanaries wrote:

I recommend everyone new to the Canon Speedlite system watch this DVD...great return on the $20 and an hour's time

I personally find the manuals to the lighting accessories in the Canon lineup sorely lacking versus the camera and lens.

Thanks Urbanaries you are quite right about the manual for the 580, I just found it so unclear to follow in practice. I will certainly order the dvd you have recommended.
Regards
Bob

cmason

I leave my 430 in full ETTL indoors. Outdoors, I set it to manual, -1 2/3 in midday sun, and adjust more power as it gets darker later in day. I leave the zoom on auto.

jeffreaux2

Outdoors, I use the histogram to expose to the right...then use the flash for fill...and use FEC to control that. I adjust the FEC wheel for each shot so as not to introduce flashy looking shadows.

There is a ton of reading on the Canon EOS flash system here in the technique forum at the top of the board.
Or...here's the link,
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=70330

canon400d

cmason wrote:

I leave my 430 in full ETTL indoors. Outdoors, I set it to manual, -1 2/3 in midday sun, and adjust more power as it gets darker later in day. I leave the zoom on auto.

Thanks Cmason I have tried it on Manual but have been unable to get a setting -12/3 Also my zoom shows Mzoom I cannot get it to show Auto zoom.
Regards
Bob

cmason

canon400d wrote:

Thanks Cmason I have tried it on Manual but have been unable to get a setting -12/3 Also my zoom shows Mzoom I cannot get it to show Auto zoom.
Regards
Bob

After pressing the "M" key, press the button in the middle of the wheel, then spin wheel backwards.

To change zoom, push Zoom button and spin the wheel. With a Canon lens (and some others), the zoom will set automatically.

canon400d

cmason wrote:

After pressing the "M" key, press the button in the middle of the wheel, then spin wheel backwards.

To change zoom, push Zoom button and spin the wheel. With a Canon lens (and some others), the zoom will set automatically.

Thanks ever so much for that I have tried it and it works.
Regards
Bob

divamum

Wow - great thread, and thanks for all those links!

A related question to which I haven't yet found an answer (point me to the relevant thread/article if I've simply missed it!): Flash Exposure Compensation.

I undesrtand how regular EC works, and I understand that on an XT (which I'm using with a 420ex) I will need to use FEC to adjust the fill flash effect. I do not yet understand, however, what exactly the FEC does, by how much, or in what context. For starters, does it alter the FLASH settings (by reducing that by +/-), or the camera's settings by changing the ambient exposure by +/-?

The 420ex has no capacity to dial in fill flash amounts and, while I've been very impressed with it in the couple of days I've had it and been playing around with it, in general I prefer fill flash to be on the subtle side, perhaps more subtle than the camera's defaults, so if FEC is a way to trick the flash into that, I'd be very happy!


Here's what I got from it pretty much "out of the box" - I can't complain, but my preference would be for just the tiniest bit less fill so it's ever so slightly more natural-light looking. (This was taken in P mode, but I was about 25ft away and it was the 55-250@ 214mm/5.6, so presumably that's why it gave me such a nice blurred background).






In any case, just trying to figure out how this all works so I can get what I want by design instead of by accident!

Thanks again, for those great links - wonderful (and clear!) info!

ian408

I have been experimenting with FEC recently. I too prefer to have a more subtle look.

I won't say I've been 100% successful but the results have been pretty interesting.

cmason

One of the most helpful things for me was this PopPhoto 'cheat sheet':

http://www.popphoto.com/assets/download/821200311318.pdf

Read it, print it off, keep it in your camera bag...I did.

As for the question: FEC alters the light output of the flash, it does not alter the camera. So when you dial in a -1 1/3, it is simply instructing the flash to reduce the output by that many stops. ETTL is still working, you have just told it to stop down.

Of course, a must read is the comprehensive guide to Canon Flashes, another must read. In this you will learn about FEC

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

Here is what it says regarding FEC:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Flash exposure compensation (FEC). [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]There are times when you may want to adjust the total flash output from a flash unit above or below what the assumed mid-tones that the camera thinks you probably want. For example, a scene that’s mainly white or mainly dark will fool automated sensors, so you may want to override the flash unit. This is flash exposure compensation; referred to as “fill-in ratio control” or “flash level control” in older Canon material.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]As noted in the section on fill flash, a common application for flash is lightening shadows and toning down the high-contrast nature of full sunlight. Adding a subtle catchlight in someone’s eyes is another. For cases like this you might want to dial in an additional minus stop or two of flash compensation over the camera’s built-in flash program since you don’t want to blast out a ton of fill flash that will wash out the subject’s face or cast flash shadows. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Or perhaps you want to take a harshly lit flash photo, like old paparazzi photos from the days of non-electronic bulb flash. You could then dial in additional flash compensation. Yet another common situation is overriding the default flash controls in situations that are hard for the flash system to meter. Wedding photos of a man in a black tuxedo in a large room or a woman in a white dress next to a white cake are typical examples.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]FEC is adjustable in half or one-third stop intervals, depending on the camera and flash. You can apply both positive (more light from the flash) or negative (less) compensation, usually by up to three stops. Remember that, on cameras which have it, FEC is completely independent from regular exposure compensation on your camera. (cameras which lack FEC simply adjust flash and ambient compensation simultaneously) It’s quite possible to, for instance, apply plus 1 stop FEC and dial in minus two stops exposure compensation at the same time. Just like regular light metering, one stop represents a doubling or halving of light output. Altering FEC means altering power output, not distance. (see the section on guide numbers for more information)[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]As noted earlier, EOS bodies automatically apply by default auto fill reduction under brighter ambient lighting conditions. So it may not be necessary to dial in any FEC if you just need fill flash - particularly if you’re using E-TTL rather than TTL. E-TTL is generally agreed to have improved and more subtle fill flash when ambient light levels are bright. You’ll probably want to run some tests to see how your camera and flash combination works for you. Remember that any FEC you apply manually will be in addition to any auto fill reduction that the camera may apply.[/SIZE][/FONT]

divamum

cmason wrote:

As for the question: FEC alters the light output of the flash, it does not alter the camera. So when you dial in a -1 1/3, it is simply instructing the flash to reduce the output by that many stops. ETTL is still working, you have just told it to stop down.

Bingo - that's the piece of information needed!

And thanks for quoting the relevant section of the EOS flash article; I was working my way through it, but either missed (or hadn't got to) that section!

Great stuff. Now, to process and assimilate it all...

jeffreaux2

divamum wrote:

Bingo - that's the piece of information needed!

And thanks for quoting the relevant section of the EOS flash article; I was working my way through it, but either missed (or hadn't got to) that section!

Great stuff. Now, to process and assimilate it all...

I am not familiar with the 420EX and its menus or lack thereof. A workaround would be to control FEC through the camera's menu.

Yes, FEC only affects flash output.

divamum

One of the most helpful things for me was this PopPhoto 'cheat sheet':

http://www.popphoto.com/assets/downl...1200311318.pdf

Just read it, and not only is this article informative, but it's hilarious! ("+1 - harsh, burned-out faces; portraits of your enemies".

Thanks again, cmason (and also for the help/info/advice in acquiring the flash - don't know if you saw my follow up in the gear forum, but I got a significant discount on it for some cosmetic damage, and talked them down to $120. Not as good a deal as yours, but not bad!)

cmason

divamum wrote:

Just read it, and not only is this article informative, but it's hilarious! ("+1 - harsh, burned-out faces; portraits of your enemies".

Thanks again, cmason (and also for the help/info/advice in acquiring the flash - don't know if you saw my follow up in the gear forum, but I got a significant discount on it for some cosmetic damage, and talked them down to $120. Not as good a deal as yours, but not bad!)

Excellent divamum, glad you got a deal. Post some pics when you get a chance, lets see that new gear in action!

canon400d

cmason wrote:

Excellent divamum, glad you got a deal. Post some pics when you get a chance, lets see that new gear in action!

Those are great posts and I have done as you said by printing the Cheat Sheet and also the other article is excellent information and a great help. I have one wee problem and it is a reading on the 580Xll in the display next to MZoom is 14mm I don't really understand what it refers to. I have tried everything to change the 14mm but have been unable to do so.
Regards
Bob

cmason

canon400d wrote:

Those are great posts and I have done as you said by printing the Cheat Sheet and also the other article is excellent information and a great help. I have one wee problem and it is a reading on the 580Xll in the display next to MZoom is 14mm I don't really understand what it refers to. I have tried everything to change the 14mm but have been unable to do so.
Regards
Bob

The 14mm indicates that the flash is set to illuminate for a 14mm lens. The M indicates it is set that way manually. Obviously if you dont have a 14mm lens, this wont be optimal. Usually its best to leave it on auto, where the flash will read the focal length from the lens and set accordingly.

I dont have a 580, so I am simply translating from a 430 into how the 580 works. So in order to get manual zoom off, you have to hit the "Mode" key to get it in Manual, then the 'Zoom' key. Once you do that, spinning the wheel backwards till the 'M" disappears from the display. Then hit the 'auto' button to return to fill ETTL.

patsy easley

canon400d wrote:

Those are great posts and I have done as you said by printing the Cheat Sheet and also the other article is excellent information and a great help. I have one wee problem and it is a reading on the 580Xll in the display next to MZoom is 14mm I don't really understand what it refers to. I have tried everything to change the 14mm but have been unable to do so.
Regards
Bob

My flash was flashing 14mm the other day when I did not have the in flash diffuser pushed in all the way. When I finally realized what what wrong and pushed it in the extra mm or so it was fine.

canon400d

cmason wrote:

The 14mm indicates that the flash is set to illuminate for a 14mm lens. The M indicates it is set that way manually. Obviously if you dont have a 14mm lens, this wont be optimal. Usually its best to leave it on auto, where the flash will read the focal length from the lens and set accordingly.

I dont have a 580, so I am simply translating from a 430 into how the 580 works. So in order to get manual zoom off, you have to hit the "Mode" key to get it in Manual, then the 'Zoom' key. Once you do that, spinning the wheel backwards till the 'M" disappears from the display. Then hit the 'auto' button to return to fill ETTL.

Yes I fully understand what you have said. I don't have a 14mm lens. I will set it on Auto and return to ETTL. You have really been great with these posts and I am sure a lot of people will have learned quite a lot from what you have displayed.
I am awaiting the dvd to give me the extra confidence
Regards
Bob