Help with Football

Novice311Novice311 Registered Users Posts: 4 Beginner grinner
edited October 7, 2008 in Sports
I recently took a job as a reporter/photographer for a small town newspaper. I'm a writer, not a photographer! I've managed to take decent pictures, except at high school football games. These are examples:

DSC_20.jpg

DSC_0079.jpg

It's like Salvador Dali on acid!

Can anyone explain to me (using as little photography jargon as possible) what is wrong? I'm using a Nikon D70.

Thanks!

Comments

  • jbr13jbr13 Registered Users Posts: 251 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2008
    I would be happy to try to help but I am at work and can't see pictures posted threw photobucket. Can you attach one or post threw another site? Work has photobuckets photos block for some reason..

    J

    Thanks![/quote]
    Jason

    http://jbr.smugmug.com/

    "When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced... Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice"
  • Novice311Novice311 Registered Users Posts: 4 Beginner grinner
    edited October 6, 2008
    Try this: http://photographybydale.shutterfly.com/sports/3
    Click on slideshow.
    Thanks!
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2008
    Novice311 wrote:
    I recently took a job as a reporter/photographer for a small town newspaper. I'm a writer, not a photographer! I've managed to take decent pictures, except at high school football games. These are examples:

    It's like Salvador Dali on acid!

    Can anyone explain to me (using as little photography jargon as possible) what is wrong? I'm using a Nikon D70.

    Thanks!

    The reason your photos look like they do is your shutter speed (1/4) was too slow. You have both motion blur (from your subjects moving) and camera shake (pretty tough to hold a camera steady at 1/4 shutter speeds).

    What lens(es) and flash(es) do you have access to for your job? I'm guessing no one is going to splurge for a D700 and 400mm 2.8 lens so it comes down to how to get the best results out of the gear you do have.
  • jbr13jbr13 Registered Users Posts: 251 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2008
    As John said, post what gear your using and it will help with total setup.

    For motion at football, you will have to keep your shutter speed up to about 1/320. Sometimes I will drop to 1/200 but not often. Aperture (F#) as low of a number as you can go. I shoot at F2.8 at night to collect as much light as possible. Then I have to take my ISO up untill I get the exposer that will work. If you have a flash, you can vary these things depending on the flash, and the distance the play is from you. That is about my 2 cents worth. I am sure John can help you more once you post your gear.

    J
    Jason

    http://jbr.smugmug.com/

    "When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced... Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice"
  • Novice311Novice311 Registered Users Posts: 4 Beginner grinner
    edited October 6, 2008
    johng wrote:
    What lens(es) and flash(es) do you have access to for your job?

    Um, the ones that are standard on the camera. I looked through the manual but couldn't find any specifications.

    The camera has a feature called "Digital Vari-Programs." One of these is "sports" and the manual describes this as "High shutter speeds freeze motion for dynamic sports shots in which main subject stands out clearly."

    That is what I used for the football pictures. It worked great in daylight at football practice, but obviously not so well as night at the actual game.

    Anyway, I guess my complete lack of understanding of my camera and of photography jargon is going to limit your ability to help me. But thanks!
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2008
    Novice311 wrote:
    Um, the ones that are standard on the camera. I looked through the manual but couldn't find any specifications.

    Anyway, I guess my complete lack of understanding of my camera and of photography jargon is going to limit your ability to help me. But thanks!

    My recommendation at this point is to take a course in photography. You took a job as a writer/photographer correct? There is just way too much to cover here. Unfortunately, shooting low light action is a difficult thing to do. A basic understanding of photography and photographic principles is going to be key to success. I'm not blowing you off here. But if you're at all serious about being able to perform the job you were hired to do you need to invest time/money on a class. And, if your editor doesn't already know I would strongly suggest a face-to-face explaining your lack of experience as a photographer. It's not something you're going to be able to hide for very long and honesty with an employer is a very good thing.
  • Novice311Novice311 Registered Users Posts: 4 Beginner grinner
    edited October 6, 2008
    I thought the answer might as simple as "Just stick a whatchamacallit on your camera." I'll look into taking a class.

    I sincerely appreciate everyone's time and help! :):
  • bandgeekndbbandgeekndb Registered Users Posts: 284 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2008
    Although I wholeheartedly second the idea of taking a class, let me attempt to summarize this just so you understand a bit of why this is happening:

    First, some definitions:
    • Aperture: The size of the hole that allows light into the camera
    • Shutter Speed: How fast the shutter opens and closes once you've pressed the button
    Alright, here we go:

    To get a really sharp picture of figures in motion (such as running football players), you need the shutter to open and close really fast! This means, the Shutter Speed value has to be high. To be exact, most experienced shooters recommend a value of "1/500 of a second" or better. By better, I mean that the bottom number gets larger: 1/1000 of a second is faster than 1/500 of a second, and so on.

    In that short, 1/500th of a second, we need to let in enough light to expose the picture correctly, otherwise you're going to have a VERY dark picture! This is where the Aperture comes in. Since we are only opening the shutter for a very short time, we need to let in as much light as possible during that time, so we want the hole letting light in to be REALLY BIG!

    Have you ever looked down to the sidelines during a pro football game and seen those MONSTROUS lenses on cameras? That is how they let a lot of light into the camera so they can get that really fast shutter speed we were talking about.

    The lens on your camera can only open a hole so big.

    Since your lens can't open that wide, we need to do one of 2 things:
    1. You need to slow down the shutter speed, so the shutter will stay open and more light can stream in through the smaller hole. For sports photography, this won't work, since we need that fast shutter speed to freeze the action.
    2. You need to add more light so in the short time the shutter is open, MORE light is available to enter into the camera. This is one of many reasons sports fields (good ones that is) are SO well-lit!

    SO, in summary, you need to do any of a few things:
    1. Please, go take a photography class, I promise, you'll like it. I am pretty much a newbie myself, so I've taken a class or two and I'm always trying to learn more. It will help IMMENSELY!
    2. You need to add a lot more light so you can freeze the motion.
    3. If you can't add light, or even if you can add light, a more professional lens intended for sport photography in day/night conditions will help. Sadly, these are anywhere from $1000+. There are also some other things you'll need if you get a lens like this, so unless work is paying for more equipment, I'd hold off. Also, as above, the photography class will help you understand what to do with this hunk of glass.
    Hopefully, this hasn't confused you, I tried to keep it simple as you asked for. Any photography course worth its salt will cover things like shutter speed and aperture and if you learn nothing else, you will take better pictures just with that knowledge. I am always happy to help, feel free to PM me or ask more questions if you'd like! Also, the search feature here is a godsend and you'll find a lot of posts about football photography including some neat techniques for adding light with a flash unit, among other things.

    Welcome to dgrin! I hope you end up enjoying photography as much as the rest of us here!

    ~Nick
    Nikon D7000, D90

    Sigma 18-50 f/2.8, 70-200 f/2.8
    Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6, 50mm f/1.8
  • zack75144zack75144 Registered Users Posts: 261 Major grins
    edited October 6, 2008
    a general understanding of photography is your best bet, but you also have an equipment problem. If you take nothing else from this post know this:

    your lens is not fast enough to do what you're trying to do.

    you need a lens with a f/stop number or 2.8 or less. This number translates to how wide the aperture opens. the smaller the number, the wider the lens opens. The wider it opens, the more light enters and therefore the faster it can shut. Set your camera to Av mode (aperture priority) and dial in the smallest number possible. This is the first step in making your camera shoot as fast as it can. You will also have to adjust how sensitive the camera is to light. This is ISO setting. It is probably set a 100. This is great for a sunny day but no good for low light. Crank the ISO up to 800 or 1600. (don't forget to change it back for your daytime photos)

    If you want to just stick something on your camera, go to the camera store and tell the guy you need a "fast lens" They aren't cheap. I paid $1100 for the lens I shoot football with.
    HTH's
    Zack
    Zack www.zackjonesphotography.net
    EOS 7D, Zeiss 50mm f/1.4, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 200mm f/2.8L II, EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 1.4 Ext II, 430EX, ST-E2, Tamrac Velocity 10X & Expeditioner 7 Bags.
  • PeterLyonsPeterLyons Registered Users Posts: 158 Major grins
    edited October 7, 2008
    zack75144 wrote:
    a general understanding of photography is your best bet, but you also have an equipment problem. If you take nothing else from this post know this:

    your lens is not fast enough to do what you're trying to do.

    you need a lens with a f/stop number or 2.8 or less.

    Not sure I agree here. For the newspaper, you don't need to worry about noise. (digital fuzz in your image). It won't be visible. Set your camera to aperture priority (on Canon it's AV... on Nikon... what's it called?) Dial your aperture down as low as it goes. Then set your ISO as high as it goes. Then shoot away. You'll do fine. Have fun!
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited October 7, 2008
    PeterLyons wrote:

    Not sure I agree here. For the newspaper, you don't need to worry about noise. (digital fuzz in your image). It won't be visible. Set your camera to aperture priority (on Canon it's AV... on Nikon... what's it called?) Dial your aperture down as low as it goes. Then set your ISO as high as it goes. Then shoot away. You'll do fine. Have fun!

    Actually noise isn't the issue. For nighttime football, ISO 3200 1/400 and f2.8 are pretty common settings. If all you have is a 5.6 lens then shutter speeds will be around 1/100. That will make things challenging. And, of course, there's the fact that if you let the camera meter it will underexpose if the team being covered is in white. Given the very poor high ISO performance of the D70 the combination of underexposure and slow shutter speeds are going to pose a problem. It's just not as simple as dialing in lowest aperture and you'll do fine.
  • PeterLyonsPeterLyons Registered Users Posts: 158 Major grins
    edited October 7, 2008
    ...never mind...
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