Volleyball

sportsshooter06

volleyball

Matt336

I think they are dark and are far too warm.

I edited one of them, if this is unacceptable, I will remove it immediately.

johng

I tend to agree with Matt. I would also suggest staying away from serves except as sales. Many editors won't accept photos of serves and it's generally a 'boring' shot - like many freethrows in basketball.

The net play are nice shots - good focus and timing. But I agree a slight tweak to exposure and a cooler WB is an improvement.

Good job.

sportsshooter06

Matt336 wrote:

I think they are dark and are far too warm.

I edited one of them, if this is unacceptable, I will remove it immediately.

I appreciate your thought, but since i was there, i will use my wb.
you are way off. wb is partially subjective, i like warm.

sportsshooter06

johng wrote:

I tend to agree with Matt. I would also suggest staying away from serves except as sales. Many editors won't accept photos of serves and it's generally a 'boring' shot - like many freethrows in basketball.

The net play are nice shots - good focus and timing. But I agree a slight tweak to exposure and a cooler WB is an improvement.

Good job.

thanks for looking.

johng

sportsshooter06 wrote:

I appreciate your thought, but since i was there, i will use my wb.
you are way off. wb is partially subjective, i like warm.

With all respect, if you're going to post in a public forum and especially if you're going to offer criticism yourself you need to do a better job of accepting it yourself. While you might like warm, there is nothing "way off" about the comment that the WB is off. White is white. If you intentionally put it off because you prefer warmer tones that's your preference. But the comment was hardly "way off".

JESTER

Just my 2 cents worth. I like Matt's version much better. I think whites should look like white and not yellowish. I shoot in a gym and have to adjust my white balance to look like Matt's. The parents and the players seem to enjoy them more that way. But please, if you put them up on the forum for viewing don't get your feelings hurt because someone tries to help you. If you like them "yellow" then so be it. Warm is definately okay and some folks do prefer it. But honestly, yours are a little too warm. They are nice actions shots and you almost got the ball in focus which is Extremely hard to do with the lighting in a high school gym.

photomania

I have taken some volleyball shots, and yours are much sharper and in better focus that mine. What is your camera/lens set up for these shots?

Lens, shutter speed, aperture?

I think they are beautiful!

mike_k

johng wrote:

With all respect, if you're going to post in a public forum and especially if you're going to offer criticism yourself you need to do a better job of accepting it yourself.

No kidding.

Not only that, but some of your shots were horizontal. You need lessons.

sportsshooter06

unfortunately, the background was not white, it was more of a blah cream?

sportsshooter06

mike_k wrote:

No kidding.

Not only that, but some of your shots were horizontal. You need lessons.

Yes, you are right, they also can be easily cropped to vertical. Just did not take the time.

thanks

sportsshooter06

johng wrote:

With all respect, if you're going to post in a public forum and especially if you're going to offer criticism yourself you need to do a better job of accepting it yourself. While you might like warm, there is nothing "way off" about the comment that the WB is off. White is white. If you intentionally put it off because you prefer warmer tones that's your preference. But the comment was hardly "way off".

You are right, however, the background was not white, therefore the gentlemen and you who made the assumption.

WAS WRONG

South Shore Snapshots

monitor issues

Matt336 wrote:

I think they are dark and are far too warm.

I edited one of them, if this is unacceptable, I will remove it immediately.

Perhaps it's just a monitor issue, but I would disagree. Here on my iMac (noted to be VERY bright), the original photos are fine as is. Granted, I haven't seen any of them in "print", but that's a whole 'nother ball-game.

Secondly, the warmer shots - not in terms of the wall - but the players' skin colours, do the shots more justice. Your revised image makes the wall, net, etc. look whiter, but also renders the athletes rather pale looking.

Lastly, to second what an earlier poster had asked, what camera/lens/specs?

johng

sportsshooter06 wrote:

You are right, however, the background was not white, therefore the gentlemen and you who made the assumption.

WAS WRONG

Actually I look at the ball and net tape not the wall. Unless that gym uses a custom ball and net tape they do not appear white in your images. The skin tones were also slightly off.
Or would it make more of an impression if I put it in caps?

In the end the WB isn't dramatically off. My criticsim was more of the attitude than the shots. If you're going to post in public expect others to disagree with your work. How you react to those criticisms says a lot about you as a professional. Especially considering the choice of words you choose when reviewing others' work. The old adage is: "if you're going to dish it out, you better be willing to take it". So, it's not so much about someone being right and someone else being wrong. It's about professional behavior. And why am I bothering to point this out? Because it's important for other aspiring photographers who might be reading the thread. How you act and interact with others goes a long way towards determining your success as a photographer. Very few people are good enough photographers that people skills don't matter.

Matt336

South Shore Snapshots wrote:

Perhaps it's just a monitor issue, but I would disagree. Here on my iMac (noted to be VERY bright), the original photos are fine as is. Granted, I haven't seen any of them in "print", but that's a whole 'nother ball-game.

Secondly, the warmer shots - not in terms of the wall - but the players' skin colours, do the shots more justice. Your revised image makes the wall, net, etc. look whiter, but also renders the athletes rather pale looking.

Lastly, to second what an earlier poster had asked, what camera/lens/specs?

I am also on an Imac.

to the OP, good luck with your photography.:D

sportsshooter06

johng wrote:

Actually I look at the ball and net tape not the wall. Unless that gym uses a custom ball and net tape they do not appear white in your images. The skin tones were also slightly off.
Or would it make more of an impression if I put it in caps?

In the end the WB isn't dramatically off. My criticsim was more of the attitude than the shots. If you're going to post in public expect others to disagree with your work. How you react to those criticisms says a lot about you as a professional. Especially considering the choice of words you choose when reviewing others' work. The old adage is: "if you're going to dish it out, you better be willing to take it". So, it's not so much about someone being right and someone else being wrong. It's about professional behavior. And why am I bothering to point this out? Because it's important for other aspiring photographers who might be reading the thread. How you act and interact with others goes a long way towards determining your success as a photographer. Very few people are good enough photographers that people skills don't matter.

john

I am sure you are a wonderful shooter, caring , professionall . Get off your soapbox. These are just photos on a public forumn.
They were posted to offer others , who want to shoot volleyball, the ability to view some shots, that did not have motion blur, maybe properly framed, maybe properly wb(96%), fairly sharp, show good action, backgrounds as clean as we could get them etc.
volleyball is fun, it can be difficult, 1. inside poor lite. 2. shutter speeds lower, 3. lots of movement and interference from other players, refs etc.

but it is fun, so get off the soapbox, you have no idea how professional, i am or anyone else is.

we wish you the best of luck in your endeavors, keep making great photos.

monchee10

Man, everybody's gettinng all aggro in here... Think I'll go and look at some landscapes... sheesh

photojen1

Easy does it....
I was going to send this thread to a friend of mine whose daughter plays volleyball and the Mom has asked me questions re: best ways to photograph the sport in the high school gymnasiums... Unfortunately, instead of an enlightening educational thread, it seems a bit more intimidating and aggressive; so I'll choose not to share. I would imagine there is a lot of talent and wisdom on the part of the initial poster as well as all the participants, so the tone and direction is regretable. Words are powerful, as are images.

MSCampbell

sportsshooter06 wrote:

I appreciate your thought, but since i was there, i will use my wb.
you are way off. wb is partially subjective, i like warm.

Allow me the pleasure of criticizing your work before I give you a kiss.

If you used your white balance correctly, it certainly doesn't show. A little warmth would have been great if you were shooting outdoor beach volleyball or trying to give your photos that aged, urine-stained patina that is so popular with the portrait photographers (including myself), but this just doesn't cut it for high school court volleyball. And don't give me that "white balance is partially subjective, I like warm" crap. The fact of the matter is that white balance is always a problem with cameras and shooters at all levels, not just you. I suspect if you haven't "mastered" your wb yet, then you probably haven't achieved nirvana in your post-processing correction techniques either and the color correction you submitted shows it. Nothing to panic about though. Some pro shooters I work with swear by the ExpoDisc or some other gadget to clean up their wb but the mere fact that they have to use it at all, or some other little gizmo, tells you you're in the company of giants. In fact, I've yet to duplicate those "in-camera" successes some claim they get so I fudge a little with Lightroom to help me over the wb hurdles and get rid of awful bile acid color inherent in high school gyms everywhere. And don't mistake that for "warmth." But it's not the white balance in your photos that bothers me so much - that can always be corrected in post-processing (Work on those skills too). I like your eye and ability to anticipate the action. You've got some great shots here and you seem quick to capture the central action, body language, and facial expressions of the player's ("Gee, how hard can that be?" You'd be surprised). I would recommend that you work on perfecting your shooting positions a little more and don't be afraid to shoot vertically (I don't think I've shot horizontal action in years. Don't say it you guys, and if you do, keep it clean). And make a friend of that crop tool as well. In event photography, as in a photojournalistic approach, you're typically focusing (no pun intended) on one player, occasionally two. And that's exactly what you should be doing. Remember, a spectator is not interested in buying a photo of 5 or 6 players, or the kids off to the left and right, just their own kid. And a photo is not worth a thousand words. It should only be worth one. "WOW!" So crop, crop, crop. In that way, the attention goes right to the action you're trying to capture, not all the extraneous detritus. And don't tell me you like detritus! Keep up the good work and we'll look forward to seeing you implement these suggestions in your next volleyball shoot. And be sure to share them with us so we can encourage you more and, if we see something we don't like, we'll just slap you around a little bit.

Michael
ARIZONA SPORT SHOTS
MICHAEL CAMPBELL PHOTOGRAPHY

nipprdog

deleted.

Not a way for me to welcome a new member.

MSCampbell

photojen1 wrote:

I was going to send this thread to a friend of mine whose daughter plays volleyball and the Mom has asked me questions re: best ways to photograph the sport in the high school gymnasiums... Unfortunately, instead of an enlightening educational thread, it seems a bit more intimidating and aggressive; so I'll choose not to share. I would imagine there is a lot of talent and wisdom on the part of the initial poster as well as all the participants, so the tone and direction is regretable. Words are powerful, as are images.

Rachel, Joe, & SS06,

You're not kidding. Definitely a little hostility going on here. Just look at Jim's reply to my tongue-in-cheek remarks to SS06 (amazing who they let in SportsShooter these days. Just kidding folks). In all seriousness SS06, you're old enough, I'm sure, not to be treated like a child. If you came to work for me, I wouldn't hesitate to tell you what adjustments you'd need to make to get your shots right-on. And frankly, it's only a few, but critical things. And, of course, I'm referring to the shots that you submitted from your first time volleyball event. I haven't seen your other work. Still, some things are just basic, like wb. The positioning and angles, discovering the world of verticality (yes Jim, that really is a word but feel free to whip out your pocket dictionary again), and a touch of sharpening is pretty much what you need to "focus" on along with some of the other valuable suggestions made here. So take the learned advice of others to help improve your abilities. But if you need us to sugar coat every point of corrective criticism so that you're not offended, as Jim's veiled remark suggests (curiously followed by "Sorry"), then this probably isn't the right Forum for you. For that matter, I'm not sure it's the right Forum for me either.

Michael
ARIZONA SPORT SHOTS
MICHAEL CAMPBELL PHOTOGRAPHY