Need Help with D300 SB 800 Fill Flash Outdoors

photomania

I am going to be shooting some youth soccer Team and Individual photos outside. It will be out in the daylight with NO shade from 7:30 am until 2 pm. I've been reading various forums (here and elsewhere) and I have some technical questions.

After reading a number of forums, I have decided to use my SB 800 as fill flash. However, I'm confused about something. I read at another forum to set up the shot manually (i.e. shutter speed, ISO, f stop), use matrix metering, then turn on the SB800, adjust the EV settings down as much as necessary to get the correct exposure, and shoot away.

However, the flash sync speed on the D300 is 1/250. Does this mean that I need to manually set up the shot at 1/250, or say can I set it at 1/500?

In addition to this question, any suggestions on shooting this event would be appreciated.

Ferguson

photomania wrote:

However, the flash sync speed on the D300 is 1/250. Does this mean that I need to manually set up the shot at 1/250, or say can I set it at 1/500?

The D300 with the SB800 will do FP sync at the full range of shutter speeds, so you can set the shutter to any speed and still have the flash sync. This is not true of the built in flash, just the SB800.

HOWEVER... HOWEVER... the technique used to make this work means that the flash power drops rather dramatically as speed goes up.

Try this: put the SB800 on, make sure in TTL mode, it should have the display on the back of the flash saying "TTL" "BL" "FP". Particularly FP.

Set the camera to manual and 1/250th and some F-stop (doesn't matter much which). Note the distance range (for me right now it says 2-21').

Now change to 1/500th, and watch the distance change. Mine goes to 2-8.8'. As you increase the speed you decrese the effective distance due to the power falloff required to do FP sync.

This means for fill out doors you may have ample shutter speed, but not have enough power for distance. You'll have to play with the ISO you are using and how much light you need, but the falloff (as you can see) is pretty significant.

On the other hand, if you let the camera do its thing for exposure anyway, and just expect some fill (as opposed to primary lighting) it can not HURT to use it. If you are too far, you just won't get fill.

Wineman

you may also use a bounce card on the sb-800, I have used the better bounce card (www.abetterbouncecard.com) very succesfully outdoors for filling light, but you must be close to your subject.

Good luck!!!

Z.

jfriend

photomania wrote:

I am going to be shooting some youth soccer Team and Individual photos outside. It will be out in the daylight with NO shade from 7:30 am until 2 pm. I've been reading various forums (here and elsewhere) and I have some technical questions.

After reading a number of forums, I have decided to use my SB 800 as fill flash. However, I'm confused about something. I read at another forum to set up the shot manually (i.e. shutter speed, ISO, f stop), use matrix metering, then turn on the SB800, adjust the EV settings down as much as necessary to get the correct exposure, and shoot away.

However, the flash sync speed on the D300 is 1/250. Does this mean that I need to manually set up the shot at 1/250, or say can I set it at 1/500?

In addition to this question, any suggestions on shooting this event would be appreciated.

The CLS flash control on Nikon's is pretty amazing. I use my SB-800 all the time for outdoor fill on candid people shots. All I do is set the camera to program mode (I'll explain why I use that mode in a moment), set the flash to -1/3EV (on the flash, not on the camera), set matrix metering, put the diffuser on the flash (as long as you don't need fill at great distances) and then shoot away.

This is basically the only time I use program mode on any of my Nikon bodies and here's why. If I use aperture mode to control the depth of field precisely, then I have to keep a serious eye on the shutter speed to make sure that it doesn't want to be over 1/250th or it will overexpose. If I use shutter speed mode at 1/250th, then I have very little control over the aperture.

Program mode actually gives me the best of both worlds. The camera picks an intelligent default exposure. There is no danger of overexposing because of too much light for 1/250th because the camera will just adjust the aperture if that is happening. On the other hand, I can tweak either the aperture or the shutter speed with the front or rear dial and I can get any exposure I want for any shot. So, if I have time, then I have full control. If I don't have time (which I don't always in outdoor candids), then the camera will make sure I don't miss the shot. I know that many think that program mode is an amateur mode, but if you are watching it and making sure it is set the way you want, it actually gives you more control than A or S modes.

The other options is to turn FPSync on which will then allow the shutter speed to be much higher than 1/250th, though at a significantly reduced flash power. If I know I will never have much distance from my subject and/or I know I will never be shooting at small apertures like f/8 and f/11 where high flash power is needed, then you can use FPSync and then just use your camera in aperture priority and let it set the shutter speed wherever it wants. The problem with this is you get about 1/8 power and daytime fill at any distance of small aperture can sometimes require pretty significant power and the last thing you want is to be shooting fill flash without enough power to actually do the filling.

dangin

photomania wrote:

I am going to be shooting some youth soccer Team and Individual photos outside. It will be out in the daylight with NO shade from 7:30 am until 2 pm. I've been reading various forums (here and elsewhere) and I have some technical questions.

After reading a number of forums, I have decided to use my SB 800 as fill flash. However, I'm confused about something. I read at another forum to set up the shot manually (i.e. shutter speed, ISO, f stop), use matrix metering, then turn on the SB800, adjust the EV settings down as much as necessary to get the correct exposure, and shoot away.

However, the flash sync speed on the D300 is 1/250. Does this mean that I need to manually set up the shot at 1/250, or say can I set it at 1/500?

In addition to this question, any suggestions on shooting this event would be appreciated.

there's no universal answer for this. it depends on the amount of sun, cloud coverage, etc. if it's hard sun, i'm usually at around f/11-16, 1/250, ISO 100 with the flash set to pop between 1/2 - full power depending on distance from the subject.

i don't believe in fp sync; it doesn't produce good results imo. if i'm doing large group shots, i'm ditching the sb-800 and putting up a 300ws strobe.

photomania

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I'm going to practice some of the techniques you all have suggested and see what the results are!

jasonstone

I just tried some flash fill last weekend at a hillclimb
Nikon D80 + SB-800
I used shutter priority - 1/500s
I forgot to set to matrix meter though and had it set to centre balanced
All in all the photos are ok - some i like more - although I didn't think that the flash would make the reflective number plates so errr white

hey live and learn

Oh and flash was set to TTL - could have been useful to make it -1/3 but I was shooting from 4+metres away so I though there wuold be enough flash drop off to not worry about that

If you want to check out some of the photos it may give you an idea of results - some limited PP in LR2

http://jasonstone.smugmug.com/gallery/6219812_2AMxF#392350238_QoMwD

Cheers, Jase

davidweaver

Hmmm...
Lots to consider here.

* Learn to read a histogram.
* Shoot at 200-400 ISO.
* I might go Shutter priority at 125/sec
* SHOOT IN RAW
* PROCESS in Lightroom or Bridge. You can do some considerable tweeking with fill light and black controls.
* DO NOT OVEREXPOSE. Maybe set the D300 to overlay the overexposed areas in the screen...I think I've done that on my D300s.
* Learn how to read a histogram and do not overexpose.

go practice a couple days in advance. That will REALLY pay off when you have to shoot it for real.

davidweaver

Hmmm...
Lots to consider here.

* Learn to read a histogram.
* Shoot at 200-400 ISO. Bump on TTL FP setting too.
* I might go Shutter priority at 125/sec
* SHOOT IN RAW
* PROCESS in Lightroom or Bridge. You can do some considerable tweaking with fill light and black controls.
* DO NOT OVEREXPOSE. Maybe set the D300 to overlay the overexposed areas in the screen...I think I've done that on my D300s.
* Learn how to read a histogram and do not overexpose.

go practice a couple days in advance. That will REALLY pay off when you have to shoot it for real.

Mitchell

How did you get this gig??

These kids and their parents are counting on you to take some nice portraits and team photos. You're asking how to set your camera and use your flash? You had better get out there and practice.