National Parks Commercial Photo Permit?

CWSkopec

Somewhere, and I can't remember what park I was in, I saw a sign to the effect that Commercial Photography in National Parks was prohibited without a permit. I've attempted searching the NPS.gov site and only found information that appeared to pertain to commercial movie making, with extra fees for Ranger overtime to accompany the movie crew and such.

Does that mean that I am free to sell any images I took on my recent trip through Yosemite and Crater Lake and Lassen Volcanic Park? Or is that in violation of the law since I didn't have a permit?

Now the chances that I would be caught selling them are pretty slim (I'm not even sure if there are any that I would feel comfortable selling, from a quality standpoint), but if I ever intend to make a little money doing something I truly enjoy, I would like to start off on the right foot and do things the "proper" way.

Has anyone ever obtained one of these permits? I've seen quite a few pictures from National Parks here on DGrin, are you folks selling them? Or like me at this point, taking them because you love it?

Thanks for you thoughts!!

Angelo

Chris

regardless of park policy if you're selling prints of images you snapped as art pieces you did not need a permit nor do you need any sort of releases.

"Commercial" means the use of images for third party affiliates for the purpose of advertising or marketing a commercial product or service.

example: you selling your image to a camping goods retailer to use in a magazine advertisement for their products.

Foochar

CWSkopec wrote:

Somewhere, and I can't remember what park I was in, I saw a sign to the effect that Commercial Photography in National Parks was prohibited without a permit. I've attempted searching the NPS.gov site and only found information that appeared to pertain to commercial movie making, with extra fees for Ranger overtime to accompany the movie crew and such.

Does that mean that I am free to sell any images I took on my recent trip through Yosemite and Crater Lake and Lassen Volcanic Park? Or is that in violation of the law since I didn't have a permit?

Now the chances that I would be caught selling them are pretty slim (I'm not even sure if there are any that I would feel comfortable selling, from a quality standpoint), but if I ever intend to make a little money doing something I truly enjoy, I would like to start off on the right foot and do things the "proper" way.

Has anyone ever obtained one of these permits? I've seen quite a few pictures from National Parks here on DGrin, are you folks selling them? Or like me at this point, taking them because you love it?

Thanks for you thoughts!!

Generally speaking photography as an individual or as part of small group does not require a permit. The applicable law that pertains to this is known as Public Law 106-206 (text available at http://www.usbr.gov/lc/hooverdam/pl106-206.pdf), which actually forbids a fee for still photography unless certain conditions are met. Generally speaking taking landscape and wildlife shots while the park is open and selling them does not require any permits.

The specific times that a fee can be imposed for photography are
1) It takes place at a location, or at a time, when members of the general public are not allowed (an example would be that Antietam Battlefield closes at dark, if I wanted to photograph there after dark they could charge me a fee, in part because they would have to have someone come out and unlock gates etc.)

2) If the photography involves models, props, etc that are not part of the natural or cultural resources of the park, especially if that photography is commercial in nature (an example would be using a park as a setting for a off road vehicle shoot for an advertisement). This can also be extended to using the park as a setting for portraits that you are being paid to take, some parks have developed a streamlined process for permitting for this, assuming all your equipment can be hand carried etc. If you only do it occasionally chances are no one will ever notice or say anything. If you are using the same locations on a regular basis then you should probably contact the park. Part of the issue here is that you are now using the park as a place to conduct a commercial endeavor, i.e. you are actually transacting business with a client in the park.

3) If the park will incur administrative or personnel costs in the course of your photography, or in mitigating you impact on the park or other visitors (you want exclusive access to a certain area, if the park feels that this is not a substantial detriment to other park visitors they can allow this but charge you for the staff to keep other visitors out and to redirect them to other activities, locations etc.)

It should also be noted that organizations offering a formal photography workshops at a park are generally required to have a permit. Again this is mainly an issue of using the park for a commercial endeavor. Someone offering guided hiking trips for a fee, or fly fishing trips for a fee would be required to do the same. Informal gatherings without a paid guide typically don't run into this problem, however group of more than 5 or 10 people may want to contact the park in advance in large part due to the potential for damage in areas that are not designed for groups that large. I'm a believer in photographers trying to practice Leave No Trace principles, and it is hard for large groups to adhere to those principles.

CWSkopec

Angelo wrote:

Chris

regardless of park policy if you're selling prints of images you snapped as art pieces you did not need a permit nor do you need any sort of releases.

"Commercial" means the use of images for third party affiliates for the purpose of advertising or marketing a commercial product or service.

example: you selling your image to a camping goods retailer to use in a magazine advertisement for their products.

Thanks for the clarification Angelo!!

I was thinking of commercial in terms of anything that's for sale.
Hopefully now I'll be able to find a couple images that are good enough to have worried about...

CWSkopec

Foochar wrote:

Generally speaking photography as an individual or as part of small group does not require a permit. The applicable law that pertains to this is known as Public Law 106-206 (text available at http://www.usbr.gov/lc/hooverdam/pl106-206.pdf), which actually forbids a fee for still photography unless certain conditions are met. Generally speaking taking landscape and wildlife shots while the park is open and selling them does not require any permits.

The specific times that a fee can be imposed for photography are
1) It takes place at a location, or at a time, when members of the general public are not allowed (an example would be that Antietam Battlefield closes at dark, if I wanted to photograph there after dark they could charge me a fee, in part because they would have to have someone come out and unlock gates etc.)

2) If the photography involves models, props, etc that are not part of the natural or cultural resources of the park, especially if that photography is commercial in nature (an example would be using a park as a setting for a off road vehicle shoot for an advertisement). This can also be extended to using the park as a setting for portraits that you are being paid to take, some parks have developed a streamlined process for permitting for this, assuming all your equipment can be hand carried etc. If you only do it occasionally chances are no one will ever notice or say anything. If you are using the same locations on a regular basis then you should probably contact the park. Part of the issue here is that you are now using the park as a place to conduct a commercial endeavor, i.e. you are actually transacting business with a client in the park.

3) If the park will incur administrative or personnel costs in the course of your photography, or in mitigating you impact on the park or other visitors (you want exclusive access to a certain area, if the park feels that this is not a substantial detriment to other park visitors they can allow this but charge you for the staff to keep other visitors out and to redirect them to other activities, locations etc.)

It should also be noted that organizations offering a formal photography workshops at a park are generally required to have a permit. Again this is mainly an issue of using the park for a commercial endeavor. Someone offering guided hiking trips for a fee, or fly fishing trips for a fee would be required to do the same. Informal gatherings without a paid guide typically don't run into this problem, however group of more than 5 or 10 people may want to contact the park in advance in large part due to the potential for damage in areas that are not designed for groups that large. I'm a believer in photographers trying to practice Leave No Trace principles, and it is hard for large groups to adhere to those principles.

Foochar,
Thank you for taking the time to go so far in depth of the subject, I appreciate it! And I completely agree with your beliefs that photographers should leave no trace, my only argument is that it should be extended to everyone, not just the photographers. But it certainly is difficult for a large group to mitigate their impact. Especially with multiple people clamoring to get the same shot. Better to keep the group small I think!

Digital Illusions

now that we know you are going to try and sell these NPS photos how about showging us a preview of what you tookof Yosemite and Crater Lake and Lassen Volcanic Park?

i am partial to crater lake photos myself but i am just an hours drive from there too.

davidweaver

Bumps to Foochar and Angelo here.

It's about USE of the property.

CWSkopec

Digital Illusions wrote:

now that we know you are going to try and sell these NPS photos how about showging us a preview of what you tookof Yosemite and Crater Lake and Lassen Volcanic Park?

i am partial to crater lake photos myself but i am just an hours drive from there too.

Hey Kalamath Falls!! I crashed there for a night before heading on to Crater Lake!! Beautiful area!!

I'm working on it Digital Illusions!! I just got the replacement cord for my flat panel last night so it's time to start processing (the laptop screen just doesn't cut it). Keep an eye out in Landscapes they'll be there eventually!!

Oh, and I should warn you, I don't know that ANY of them are good enough to sell, it was just a general question about if I could legally. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there may be a couple that good!!

Digital Illusions

CWSkopec wrote:

Hey Kalamath Falls!! I crashed there for a night before heading on to Crater Lake!! Beautiful area!!

I'm working on it Digital Illusions!! I just got the replacement cord for my flat panel last night so it's time to start processing (the laptop screen just doesn't cut it). Keep an eye out in Landscapes they'll be there eventually!!

Oh, and I should warn you, I don't know that ANY of them are good enough to sell, it was just a general question about if I could legally. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there may be a couple that good!!

sweet i look for ward to it. glad you liked the area.