Remote flash triggers - what exactly do I need?

jasonstone

Hi everyone,

I'm looking at the Gadget Infinity's too and was wondering if I need to have something like the Nikon SU-800 too???

I have a Nikon D80 and a SB-800 and a (Canon) Sunpak PZ4000AF

I want to shoot the SB-800 from a stand with umbrella and the Sunpak can be for highlights or for changing colour of back wall with gels

From what I understand I need to have the transmitter on my camera's hotshoe and 2 receivers - one for the sunpak and one for the sb-800

I know I could fire the SB-800 from the camera's inbuilt flash but then I couldn't attach the transmitter to trigger the remote cactus right? So I have to have 2 receivers - one for each flash - correct me if I'm wrong

I don't have any problems with using the flash in manual mode as I'm tring to learn from strobist website and he's in manual i think all the time

Thanks for all advice

Cheers, Jase

p.s. I know there are other better systems out there - but this is a hobby for me and 70USD is the limit for me for buying this sort of functionality to just play around with - otherwise I'd just buy another SB-800 :deal

Scott_Quier

Yup - one transmitter and one receiver for each flash (unless one or the other flashes have an optical trigger). For each receiver, you will also need a way to connect the receiver to the flash. In the case of the SB-800, a simple PC-Cord will do the trick.

I couldn't easily find any reference material on the Sunpak flash, so I don't know if it has a PC terminal. If not, you can use something like the HSH Hot Shoe to Household Adapter. I use one of these with my Canon 580EX because it doesn't have a PC terminal. It works quite well.

jasonstone

Scott_Quier wrote:

Yup - one transmitter and one receiver for each flash (unless one or the other flashes have an optical trigger).

SB-800 can be triggered using builtin Nikon D80 flash but then I can't trigger the sunpak remotely as trigger won't fit on hotshoe right

or will it?

Scott_Quier wrote:

For each receiver, you will also need a way to connect the receiver to the flash. In the case of the SB-800, a simple PC-Cord will do the trick.

Damn! I forgot about that part of it so I have to add the cost of PC-Cords too

Why oh why do I have to pick expensive hobbies - even the cheap stuff is still expensive

Motorbikes, photography and would love to add racing classic autos/motorbikes - it's amazing my wife puts up with me

Thanks for the info Scott

Cheers, Jase

dancorder

Hi, I'm going through the Strobist stuff too

You don't need an SU-800, as far as I know the SU-800 does very little for you if your camera has a commander mode (as yours does) especially given how much it costs.

Whether you can use the Nikon system together with a radio trigger, I don't know (my camera doesn't have commander mode )

I would just get the trigger with two receivers and use that when you want to use both flashes. If you have a shot with only one flash you could use the SB-800 and save your self some walking to adjust the power

jasonstone

Scott_Quier wrote:

Yup - one transmitter and one receiver for each flash (unless one or the other flashes have an optical trigger). For each receiver, you will also need a way to connect the receiver to the flash. In the case of the SB-800, a simple PC-Cord will do the trick.

Actually I went back to the site and had another look - I don't think I need a pc-cord as the Cactus V2s has a hotshoe

http://www.gadgetinfinity.com/product.php?productid=16766&cat=0&page=1

Am I right?

Cheers, Jase

dancorder

jasonstone wrote:

Damn! I forgot about that part of it so I have to add the cost of PC-Cords too

Not necessarily. The Cactus receivers have a hotshoe on the top that you can use if necessary (and mine came with a sync cord). Personally I use a hot shoe adapter as I only have an SB-600 and the Cactus hotshoe doesn't inspire too much confidence!


Edit: You guys are too quick for me

jasonstone

dancorder wrote:

Hi, I'm going through the Strobist stuff too

It's really interesting and I really want to get to grips with this so I can use my strobes to better effect - and it's really cool what they manage to produce!

dancorder wrote:

Whether you can use the Nikon system together with a radio trigger, I don't know (my camera doesn't have commander mode )

I know that it will definitely work - I sent them an email to check about my 2 strobes too - not a problem.

dancorder wrote:

I would just get the trigger with two receivers and use that when you want to use both flashes. If you have a shot with only one flash you could use the SB-800 and save your self some walking to adjust the power

I've been doing the 1 flash trick using the on camera flash to trigger the SB-800 in the umbrella - but not had much time to really spend on it yet

It looks good but i want to have a 2nd flash and also do the rear wall gel trick too

The other thing I'm going to do is get some cardboard and cover it with an emergency blanket out of a first aid kit as it's mylar and highly reflective - hopefully that'll be my home made bouncer for playing around with

It's all just for fun now and to learn so I don't want to invest lots of money in equipment - maybe later if I get good enough to charge - yeah in my dreams!

Cheers, Jase

jasonstone

dancorder wrote:

Not necessarily. The Cactus receivers have a hotshoe on the top that you can use if necessary (and mine came with a sync cord). Personally I use a hot shoe adapter as I only have an SB-600 and the Cactus hotshoe doesn't inspire too much confidence!


Edit: You guys are too quick for me

Ha - I was too busy replying to you too

came with a synch cord - cool - any particular model you ordered from cactus??? V2s? did you have to specify which flash???

Edit: Ah I see the text now from V2s -says it includes a pc-cord - cool!

Thanks for any tips

Cheers, Jase

dancorder

Yes, I think it was the v2s. I just bought it of eBay so didn't specify anything.

You've probably seen this already but If you're feeling adventurous then you can modify the cactus trigger and receivers too in a variety of ways:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/10/detailed-cactus-v2s-mod-page.html

I actually went through all the mods on that page, and the receiver ones are quite handy. However, from what I've read the antenna mod on that page is not necessarily the best one. The most convincing things I've read have said that buying a fixed length antenna won't necessarily work and you're better off just attaching a long coiled wire and gradually trimming it down until you find the maximum range, then cover it up somehow (e.g. with a plastic pen lid). I'd already gone the fixed antenna route before I found that though.

Scott_Quier

jasonstone wrote:

Actually I went back to the site and had another look - I don't think I need a pc-cord as the Cactus V2s has a hotshoe

http://www.gadgetinfinity.com/product.php?productid=16766&cat=0&page=1

Am I right?

Cheers, Jase

I think you are correct in this assumption - it certainly looks like it.

Using a PC cord to connect the receiver to the flash eliminates a number of worries and you loose nothing in the process. In fact, you gain something: If you mount a flash to one of the receivers and torsional stress is applied, you run the risk of breaking either the hotshoe foot of your flash or the hot shoe of the receiver. However, if you are using cords, you run the risk of pulling the cord from one unit or the other .... hmmmmm

Just my $.02 worth - YMMV, YGWYPF, TANSTAAFL, and HTH!

jasonstone

Scott_Quier wrote:

I think you are correct in this assumption - it certainly looks like it.

Using a PC cord to connect the receiver to the flash eliminates a number of worries and you loose nothing in the process. In fact, you gain something: If you mount a flash to one of the receivers and torsional stress is applied, you run the risk of breaking either the hotshoe foot of your flash or the hot shoe of the receiver. However, if you are using cords, you run the risk of pulling the cord from one unit or the other .... hmmmmm

Just my $.02 worth - YMMV, YGWYPF, TANSTAAFL, and HTH!

thanks Scott- I think I see a set of these el cheapo triggers in my future

now i just need to find a model to stand in front of the camera and strobes (my wife isn't too interested)

Scott_Quier

jasonstone wrote:

now i just need to find a model to stand in front of the camera and strobes (my wife isn't too interested)

Ummm .... how about a Teddy Bear?
Neighbor kids?

I don't know anything about this, but maybe Craigs List in a TFP/TFCD arrangement?

jasonstone

Scott_Quier wrote:

Ummm .... how about a Teddy Bear?
Neighbor kids?

I don't know anything about this, but maybe Craigs List in a TFP/TFCD arrangement?

I'd use my kids (2 and 4.5) if they'd ever stand still!!!!

No craigs list in Switzerland - it's ok - I'm sure I'll find someone!

Art Scott

Jason,
Getting set up with radio slaves is much better than using ANY optical slaves....I bought off ebay also but not cactus and do not have any hotshoe, just various plugs and pc cord here is a link RF/RD 616 RADIO SLAVE (This is the retailer I purchased from)..... I bought 2 sets of 1 transmitter and 2 recievers for $78 u.s. ..... I also had purchased 1 kit of 1 transmitter and 1 receiver to try out....so for under $100 I have 5 recievers and 3 transmitters....for my current studio set up that is 1 reciever for each light and 1 transmitter for the camera and 2 spares......
These that I purchased 16 channel and are easily switched by dip switches on the outside of the units.......I felt it imperative to have more than one or 2 channels for location work.....these realative cheap units also have a working distance of 150 feet.

here is a link to the first page of my search on ebay for RD 616 ........THE REASON i AM INCLUDING THIS link is because for you it might be better to order from a HONG KONG seller than one in the u.s.a. ......especially with FREE SHIPPING.

jasonstone

Art Scott wrote:

Jason,
Getting set up with radio slaves is much better than using ANY optical slaves....I bought off ebay also but not cactus and do not have any hotshoe, just various plugs and pc cord here is a link RF/RD 616 RADIO SLAVE (This is the retailer I purchased from).....

Wow! more channels and even cheaper - but says doesn't work out of box with Nikon SB-800 - need hot shoe adapter

Am VERY tempted as it's even cheaper - will look if it will work with my sunpak pz4000af too

Thanks for the alternativethumb

Cheers, Jase

ziggy53

I'm late to this thread but if you want to use the camera's flash for both fill and commander and you use the SB-800 as key and slave, you can add a simple slaved manual flash for background illumination triggered with a Sunpak slave unit:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/396592-REG/Sunpak_DIGIADAPT_Digital_Camera_Flash_Adapter.html

http://www.adorama.com/SUDCFA.html?searchinfo=sunpak%20slave&item_no=1

This is a "digital" optical slave, which just means that it has circuits to ignore the intitial pre-flash from a "commander" flash, and then it flashes on the primary flash pulse.

I originally bought this unit to support the on-board flash for a Fuji F30 P&S and give me more distance and more creative flash setups, but it also works well with other cameras that use pre-flash. It also has a simple slave mode and can sync with another manual or auto flash unit. Very versatile and it just plain works.

You might have to rig something to mount it appropriately to a tripod. Construction quality is dismal but sufficient for most tasks.

jasonstone

ziggy53 wrote:

I'm late to this thread but if you want to use the camera's flash for both fill and commander and you use the SB-800 as key and slave, you can add a simple slaved manual flash for background illumination triggered with a Sunpak slave unit:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/396592-REG/Sunpak_DIGIADAPT_Digital_Camera_Flash_Adapter.html

http://www.adorama.com/SUDCFA.html?searchinfo=sunpak%20slave&item_no=1

This is a "digital" optical slave, which just means that it has circuits to ignore the intitial pre-flash from a "commander" flash, and then it flashes on the primary flash pulse.

I originally bought this unit to support the on-board flash for a Fuji F30 P&S and give me more distance and more creative flash setups, but it also works well with other cameras that use pre-flash. It also has a simple slave mode and can sync with another manual or auto flash unit. Very versatile and it just plain works.

You might have to rig something to mount it appropriately to a tripod. Construction quality is dismal but sufficient for most tasks.

Hi Ziggy - thanks - not too late for sure!! my only thing is that in the future I may get lucky and maybe upgrade to yet another flash - woo hoo 3 strobes

ok i'm getting ahead of myself here

but with the sunpak adapter i think i'd be restricting myself for the future

fantastic idea though!!!

cheers, Jase

Art Scott

jasonstone wrote:

Wow! more channels and even cheaper - but says doesn't work out of box with Nikon SB-800 - need hot shoe adapter

Am VERY tempted as it's even cheaper - will look if it will work with my sunpak pz4000af too

Thanks for the alternativethumb

Cheers, Jase

these units come with various cords and plugs.....the extra hotshoe adapter is like $5 or so from the NY seller (first link).......now the one thing you loose is the TTL capabilities of these flash units....so you will be shooting in manual on camera and flash...but your and experimenter so you'll have tons o' fun and save up for a flash meter it will make like much easier with multi flash set ups....decent ones sell ofr under $100 on ebay also.....polaris, shepard, sekonic, gossen..................

jasonstone

Art Scott wrote:

THE REASON i AM INCLUDING THIS link is because for you it might be better to order from a HONG KONG seller than one in the u.s.a. ......especially with FREE SHIPPING.

Unfortunately it appears to be free shipping - as long as it's to the US - and the other issue is that they don't trigger the Nikon SB-800 I have

but it might be a moot point - it would appear the Sunpak PZ4000AF can only go full or 1/16 power - and no setting in between which would kind of make it - well not totally useless - but not really suited to what i had in mind

drat, drat and double drat :cry

Art Scott

jasonstone wrote:

Unfortunately it appears to be free shipping - as long as it's to the US - and the other issue is that they don't trigger the Nikon SB-800 I have

but it might be a moot point - it would appear the Sunpak PZ4000AF can only go full or 1/16 power - and no setting in between which would kind of make it - well not totally useless - but not really suited to what i had in mind

drat, drat and double drat :cry

sell tha SunPak PZ on ebay and get another nikon or SIGMA flash tht will work with your commander modes and built in flash....radio slaves are much better as a person or column or other obstruction will not knock it out but that maybe the best way to go for now..... or look for some used sunpak 622, they make great studio lights..............

Also you should be able to an iso hotshoe adaprter really cheap as I stated in the post above for firing your SB800.....the adapt will have a screw hole in the bottom for a tripod or light stand to screw into and pc cord connector on the side and the top is the shoe for the flash.....(I have had to use these with my old Sunpak PZ5000 as it did not have a pc connector on it but did have a built in slave trigger).....and the pc cord from the receiver will connect to the shoe adapter with the reciever hanging down acting as the antennae.............should work fine on the SB800....jut that Pz that wil be the prob.....if your PZ has a filter holder on the front you could always get some Rosco ND gels and cut them to fit (run around $4-10 in the u.s.) cut a couple to fit and run test with flash at full power thru the ND filters..........

Photoskipper

I got a 5 dollars light senser hotshoe trigger. It is simple, just a small club with hotshoe. There is a light sensor to detect the main flash. Once the main flash fire, it triggers the slave flash(s).
Go to second hand store and get an old manual flash gun at 10-20 dollars, put it on the club, screw it on any old tripod then have multiple flash set up.