Nikon SB flash and Softlighter or Soft Box Diffusers Question

Travis

I recently purchased an Nikon SB-900 and a Softlighter II (umbrella with diffusion sock). I'm still finding my way around the SB-900 after using Vivitar 285s for so long (like moving from a bike to a rocket cycle ). I'm also using a Nikon D300. My question is.... When using the SB-900 + Softlighter in iTTL mode, does the camera/flash combination take into account the stop differences from the light being bounced and diffused instead of the flash being fired straight on? I'm assuming that is metering using a preflash so it does but since I'm not positive, I figured I would post the question to those more knowledgable. I assume also it would be the same scenario for the SB-800. Thanks!

pathfinder

Isn't the metering via the camera through the lens in the iTTL Nikon system?

I shoot white lenses, so I am not a qualified Nikon commentator, but I know in the Canon ETTL world, the light IS metered through the lens, and hence, after any light modifiers are placed around the flash.

Travis

pathfinder wrote:

Isn't the metering via the camera through the lens in the iTTL Nikon system?

I shoot white lenses, so I am not a qualified Nikon commentator, but I know in the Canon ETTL world, the light IS metered through the lens, and hence, after any light modifiers are placed around the flash.

Thanks Pathfinder. The Nikon system does thru the lens metering. Since I'm new to their system, I wasn't sure if the flash exposure was metered off of a pre-flash fired by the SB-900 prior to the real flash burst. I think it does in which case the modifier would be taken into account and exposure adjusted accordingly. I think...

pathfinder

Just fire a few frames as trial shots, and that should answer the question shouldn't it? If the white diffuser costs a couple stops of light, shooting a gray step scale should point that out very quickly.

You can make you own gray step scale in Photoshop with the Gradient Tool ( black to white ) and the the Posterize command which will ask for the number of steps. 16 is usually all you need. A CORRECT exposure, should put the middle gray bar of the step chart, dead center, in the middle of your histogram.

You can also purchase gray step charts from your local camera supplier or B&H also. Here is a shot of mine I used in my posts about custom white balance tools

Travis

pathfinder wrote:

Just fire a few frames as trial shots, and that should answer the question shouldn't it? If the white diffuser costs a couple stops of light, shooting a gray step scale should point that out very quickly.

You can make you own gray step scale in Photoshop with the Gradient Tool ( black to white ) and the the Posterize command which will ask for the number of steps. 16 is usually all you need. A CORRECT exposure, should put the middle gray bar of the step chart, dead center, in the middle of your histogram.

You can also purchase gray step charts from your local camera supplier or B&H also. Here is a shot of mine I used in my posts about custom white balance tools

That looks like a good project for this Saturday morning. Thanks again Path!

Mitchell

Travis,
Have no fear, your TTL mode on your SB900 will work just fine through the softlighterII. I've used the softlighter for a few years with my sb800 with good results.

As you know, TTL means the flash power is being controlled with Through The Lens information.

Are you controlling the off camera flash with an SU800 or your on-board commander? The reason I ask is that I always seem to have to bump up almost a full stop when using the SU800 (regardless of whether I use the softlighter). I've heard this same gripe from others.

My understanding is that the only mode which uses measured light bounced back to the flash and not the camera is AUTO.

A few TTL tips I've learned that may help.

1. It is generally best to set your camera on manual mode. That way you control the ambient light fully to your satisfaction.

2. Do not use apertures above F8. While Nikon does not specify this limitation, smaller apertures have a negative effect on TTL preflash measurements.

3. Use S mode with single reticle focus point on the camera. This gives the camera the most accurate distance measurement.

Hope this helps.

Travis

Mitchell wrote:

Travis,
Have no fear, your TTL mode on your SB900 will work just fine through the softlighterII. I've used the softlighter for a few years with my sb800 with good results.

As you know, TTL means the flash power is being controlled with Through The Lens information.

Are you controlling the off camera flash with an SU800 or your on-board commander? The reason I ask is that I always seem to have to bump up almost a full stop when using the SU800 (regardless of whether I use the softlighter). I've heard this same gripe from others.

My understanding is that the only mode which uses measured light bounced back to the flash and not the camera is AUTO.

A few TTL tips I've learned that may help.

1. It is generally best to set your camera on manual mode. That way you control the ambient light fully to your satisfaction.

2. Do not use apertures above F8. While Nikon does not specify this limitation, smaller apertures have a negative effect on TTL preflash measurements.

3. Use S mode with single reticle focus point on the camera. This gives the camera the most accurate distance measurement.

Hope this helps.

Mitchell, thanks for the excellent info. I'm using the onboard flash as the commander. The F/8 limitation is something that I never heard of before so I'm glad you brought it up. Now if i can just get a few portraits as good as the ones that you have been posting, I'll be set!

spider-t

Travis wrote:

Mitchell, thanks for the excellent info. I'm using the onboard flash as the commander. The F/8 limitation is something that I never heard of before so I'm glad you brought it up. Now if i can just get a few portraits as good as the ones that you have been posting, I'll be set!

Nikon TTL is excellent. I use it all the time. I'd just like to add that while f/8 is a good max to keep in mind, f/5.6 is a good "every shot" starting point. If you don't need f/8 depth of field, you'll save yourself flash batteries with f/5.6 and it's also the aperture with the widest room for exposure error.

Have fun,
Trish

Mitchell

Travis,
I shot a Bar Mitzvah yesterday and used a single SB800 with a shoot through umbrella for the portraits. I did them all with TTL on the flash and the camera in manual mode at f5.6 and 1/60. I just let the camera decide how much power to send the flash.

Worked like a charm with every photo properly exposed!

Here's an example. CLS is great once you understand when and how to use it.

pathfinder

Very nice lighting indeed!

I like the difference in lighting intensity between the subjects and the ambient in the background.

Shooting iTTL/ETTL in Manual mode, where you can control the lighting on the subject and the background separately just rocks, doesn't it!?

Mitchell

pathfinder wrote:

Very nice lighting indeed!

I like the difference in lighting intensity between the subjects and the ambient in the background.

Shooting iTTL/ETTL in Manual mode, where you can control the lighting on the subject and the background separately just rocks, doesn't it!?

Thanks. It really does take a leap of faith and a bit of understanding, but going full manual with TTL really does give you excellent control over all of the lighting.

Travis

Beautiful shot Mitchell. I appreciate the advice! I shot a few last night of 2 families using the SB-900 and Softlighter II. Once I let myself begin to trust Nikon's system, I started to have some fun. The first shot is of my assistant (dialing in the setup) and the rest are the clients. It was a hectic shoot but I was happy with the results!



And the families....
1.




2.


3.


4.


5.

Mitchell

Very nice, Travis!

You got some good keepers there. Glad it worked out.

Travis

Mitchell wrote:

Very nice, Travis!

You got some good keepers there. Glad it worked out.

Thanks Mitchell!

jasonstone

What settings did you use Travis? Just for interest?
I'm interested in that Photo Softliter too - but have to wait for a US trip to pick one up - maybe Easter 2009

Travis

jasonstone wrote:

What settings did you use Travis? Just for interest?
I'm interested in that Photo Softliter too - but have to wait for a US trip to pick one up - maybe Easter 2009

The SB-900 set to TTL and the majority of the images shot in manual at f/8 to f/11 at 250 second. The sun was pounding - not a cloud in the sky. So I had my assistant keep the Softliter aimed at the shadow side of the face. Easily done for the portraits but more difficult for the journalistic style shots. She was chasing the kids up and down the beach with an 8' lightstand!

jasonstone

Travis wrote:

The SB-900 set to TTL and the majority of the images shot in manual at f/8 to f/11 at 250 second. The sun was pounding - not a cloud in the sky. So I had my assistant keep the Softliter aimed at the shadow side of the face. Easily done for the portraits but more difficult for the journalistic style shots. She was chasing the kids up and down the beach with an 8' lightstand!

Did you need any extra flash power, e.g. +0.7 or +1.0 on the off camera TTL SB-900?

I thought I had it before - manual for background then TTL for foreground - but just tonight playing around in the house all of a sudden it was underexposing

I was shooting through a simple umbrella at my wife working sitting on the sofa - but had to go +1.0 on the SB800 with TTL or else it was way under exposed

I'm still trying to work out why this sesison went so bad when previously it was going ok

I'm on a steep learning curve

Cheers, Jason

Travis

jasonstone wrote:

Did you need any extra flash power, e.g. +0.7 or +1.0 on the off camera TTL SB-900?

I thought I had it before - manual for background then TTL for foreground - but just tonight playing around in the house all of a sudden it was underexposing

I was shooting through a simple umbrella at my wife working sitting on the sofa - but had to go +1.0 on the SB800 with TTL or else it was way under exposed

I'm still trying to work out why this sesison went so bad when previously it was going ok

I'm on a steep learning curve

Cheers, Jason

You're not the only one on the curve. I went +1.0 on the flash and left camera exposure comp at 0.0. Of course this was primarily for fill. I shot a self portrait with softliter at night a few week's ago had to bump the flash exp to +3.0 and camera exp comp to 1.0. There was probably a better way of doing it but it worked for me at the time.

jasonstone

Travis wrote:

You're not the only one on the curve. I went +1.0 on the flash and left camera exposure comp at 0.0. Of course this was primarily for fill. I shot a self portrait with softliter at night a few week's ago had to bump the flash exp to +3.0 and camera exp comp to 1.0. There was probably a better way of doing it but it worked for me at the time.

cool thanks - so i'm not the only one bumping the TTL up a bit
btw - nice shots
i'm wanting one of those softliters now! seem like an affordable piece of kit

Travis

jasonstone wrote:

cool thanks - so i'm not the only one bumping the TTL up a bit
btw - nice shots
i'm wanting one of those softliters now! seem like an affordable piece of kit

Thanks Jason. I love the Softliter. Wish I had purchased it sooner.

Kavika

those goll darn speculars !@$%$&$&^)^
I need some help and education here! I use a Nikon D50 with an SB-800, and I spend a HUGE amount of time repairing reflections in eyes, noses, spittle, face shine, sweat, etc.

I do not have an assistant. What is the single best gizmo I can use to cut down on or eliminate all those twinkling hot points of light???

I shoot parties, events, kids, families ...

Thanks a million in advance.

David

Travis

Kavika wrote:

I need some help and education here! I use a Nikon D50 with an SB-800, and I spend a HUGE amount of time repairing reflections in eyes, noses, spittle, face shine, sweat, etc.

I do not have an assistant. What is the single best gizmo I can use to cut down on or eliminate all those twinkling hot points of light???

I shoot parties, events, kids, families ...

Thanks a million in advance.

David

I'm assuming that the flash is on-camera which poses a host of problems. There are some options that can help though. If you are shooting indoors with a white ceiling/walls, you can position the flash head to bounce the light off of these surfaces, turning them into large soft light fills.

If a you are in a dark colored room or outdoors, you will want to either purchase or make a bounce card or small softbox for your flash head. Lumiquest and Gary Fong make some good ones or you can do a search for diy bounce cards.

I suggest you visit the Strobist site for a ton of info on strobe photography.

Kavika

Travis wrote:

I'm assuming that the flash is on-camera which poses a host of problems. There are some options that can help though. If you are shooting indoors with a white ceiling/walls, you can position the flash head to bounce the light off of these surfaces, turning them into large soft light fills.

If a you are in a dark colored room or outdoors, you will want to either purchase or make a bounce card or small softbox for your flash head. Lumiquest and Gary Fong make some good ones or you can do a search for diy bounce cards.

I suggest you visit the Strobist site for a ton of info on strobe photography.

Thanks Travis, I will check out Gary Fong and Lumiquest today.