I understand your feelings both about this shot and others often praised on dgrin (believe me). I can see your emotional attachment to this shot as it captures the sport and the location for you. I think everyone has shots that are not very good technically but they still capture something beyond that.
The real challenge though is to look at it now from a different stand point. To look at it without the emotional attachment that you describe and judge it solely on its artistic and more importantly the technical merits of photography. As you grow in photography you need to be able to be your own worst critique to continue to improve (it helps to prevent getting upset at others comments too ).
Try and look at it from the mind set that you are now about to revisit that very place- what are you going to do different to capture an even stronger image.
I'll critique this shot for you if you want and if Nikolai does not mind
Please do! .
BTW, folks, every class is an "open season" for critiques. I will provide one no matter what, but the more the merrier.
Feel free to C&C, that's what it is all about. The only difference for this one is:
1) do not repeat what has been already said by the OP or previous posters
2) no patting on the back. In fact, no positive comments at all.
I fully understand what you have said but I am a little put out by Nikolai dismissive comment that is was a snapshot, I expected Nikolia to critique it to pieces, not be dismissive of it. On a technical level it is a snapshot but it fulfils the criteria of the assignment of being one of the best shots I took at that time because it does what all photographs should do, it captures the moment.
Yes to me there is a lot more in the picture and if anybody else had posted a similar picture I would of made the same comments about it as I mention about it in the first post (2nd paragraph). Yes my picture is technically lacking in just about every aspect you can think of, but by pure chance it captures the moment perfectly, for me at least.
Please be as critical as you like about the picture but don't be dismissive of it. I knew full well what I was putting myself up for when I posted the picture and expected to get slated for it , but I was prepared to do it. I don't see many other putting their stronger photographs up for a slating.
Tim,
with this particular class is neither the time not the place to get defensive. You want it sugar-coated? Try "cool shots", you'll get plenty.
You're interested in my opinion? I gave it to you. You want to hear more? Next time I'll ask for your best image try to present a better picture.
And please don't speak for others - look at Aaron's entry...
awnmn1, Nikolai
. I don't see many other putting their stronger photographs up for a slating.
hey.
for the record that WAS my strongest shot in Oct and Nov of 2007. And as there have been a only a few daring to participate in this week's assignment, I take offense at that. Your shot sucked. If that's the best you did then, then congrats for coming such a long way! But emotion should NOT determine 'best' or not. I had others I considered, but I realized my bias was emotional, not logical. So I picked the best critical shot I had from that time period and proceeded to rip it apart. Was rather fun, actually. :hang
There is one thing for sure, I am not being defensive, I am open and frank about everything and offered my view of my photograph which included stating that it fails on just about every technical level going, I can't be much more frank than that.
Please don't patronise me, I know where Cool Shots is if I need it.
Maybe next time you post a similar assignment you should state your standard of an acceptable photograph more clearly.
As for speaking for other, no, I have spoken for no one other than myself.
In the time I have spent on dgrin Nikolia I had come to respect your comments and the effort you put into the assignment thread. I am beginning to think I have misjudged you.
for the record that WAS my strongest shot in Oct and Nov of 2007. And as there have been a only a few daring to participate in this week's assignment,
My point exactly, where is everybody else?? At least I was willing to have ago (as were you)
Leah, I never mentioned anything about your picture, I saw it and read your critique of it and would agree with your comments about it, but I have made no reference to you or your picture in any of my comments.
You are right, on just about every level my picture does suck but does that give everybody the right to dismiss it as it does not reach some pre-conceived standard? Your (I don't mean you Leah) like or dislike of a photograph is a personal preference regardless of the pictures technical merits.
There is one thing for sure, I am not being defensive, I am open and frank about everything and offered my view of my photograph which included stating that it fails on just about every technical level going, I can't be much more frank than that.
Please don't patronise me, I know where Cool Shots is if I need it.
Maybe next time you post a similar assignment you should state your standard of an acceptable photograph more clearly.
As for speaking for other, no, I have spoken for no one other than myself.
In the time I have spent on dgrin Nikolia I had come to respect your comments and the effort you put into the assignment thread. I am beginning to think I have misjudged you.
Tim
Tim,
1) My name is "Nikolai", not "Nikolia"
2) You are defensive
3) "Snapshot" is a feedback.
4) I have indeed been putting a lot of time and efforts in this forum in general and in this thread in particular. It doesn't mean, however, that I should waste my time providing detailed critique for a picture that's not even worth looking at twice.
5) I wonder, did ever get an "F" in school? If so, was it always a reason to change the school or immediately start questionning your "grader" ability to do his/her job?
Tim,
1) My name is "Nikolai", not "Nikolia"
2) You are defensive
3) "Snapshot" is a feedback.
4) I have indeed been putting a lot of time and efforts in this forum in general and in this thread in particular. It doesn't mean, however, that I should waste my time providing detailed critique for a picture that's not even worth looking at twice.
5) I wonder, did ever get an "F" in school? If so, was it always a reason to change the school or immediately start questionning your "grader" ability to do his/her job?
1) My sincere apologies for my mistake
2) I beg to differ
3) But it not a critique as per your assignment outlines
4) Your personal opinion which you are entitled to
5) Not as far as I can remember
I am going to let this go, not because I feel anybody has won or lost but because there is unlikely to be any agreement with any of this.
I'll bite. This is my best shot from a year ago. I'd been shooting for 4 months with a dslr.
Here goes:
- desperately underexposed requiring major exposure adjustment resulting in less than sharp photo & noise.
- Sting looks like he's still got his 1980's mullet because Andy's hair is visible behind Sting's head.
- lack of detail in dark clothing
- crop could be tighter
There you go. Have at me.
The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
- desperately underexposed requiring major exposure adjustment resulting in less than sharp photo & noise.
- Sting looks like he's still got his 1980's mullet because Andy's hair is visible behind Sting's head.
- lack of detail in dark clothing
- crop could be tighter
There you go. Have at me.
oh I know you can critique yourself more than that!! :ivar
Sure can. Skin tone is off. There's not enough separation of Sting from the background. Andy Summers' presence in the composition is distracting. Unfortunately, Sting wouldn't stop what he was doing to pose for me.
The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
I'll bite. This is my best shot from a year ago. I'd been shooting for 4 months with a dslr.
Here goes:
- desperately underexposed requiring major exposure adjustment resulting in less than sharp photo & noise.
- Sting looks like he's still got his 1980's mullet because Andy's hair is visible behind Sting's head.
- lack of detail in dark clothing
- crop could be tighter
There you go. Have at me.
Patti, thank you for entering!
My biggest gripe is the composition. Dead center almost never helps. Along with it go tons and tons of empty (aka negative) space that have no value and simply defuse the dynamics of the shot.
I agree the second person doesn't help, but his hair would be a truly minor thing: his hand and face make Sting look like a three handed two faced monster. The intensity of lighting on both is nearly identical, so he's effectively stealing the focus from your primary subject. You need either more of him, or way less (preferably none).
HTH
'Bout time I participated again...
Nikolai,
It's not possible for me to dig back into my archives to a year ago, so with your permission, I'd like to go ahead with this one... it's from about 9 months ago, but the first weekend I had my nice, pretty XTi and remains one of my favorites despite the many thousands I've taken since.
Where to begin...
1) the light wasn't quite right. Despite the high contrast conversion I attempted, there's more detail in the wheel than is showing. Being patient and waiting or returning when there was better light would have paid dividends in detail.
2) The fake IR conversion (channel mixed if I recall) led to "blown out" leaves in the plant to the left side of the wheel.
3) the high contrast (curves) created almost a black hole behind those blown out leaves (pretty much at the center of the image!!!) causing the eye to be drawn there due to the extremely high contrast between the two.
4) Noise appeared somewhere along the line... most noticably (at least to me) in the sky, where in the color version there was none.
5) the angular piece of sky conflicts with the circular form of the wheel and not in a good way... a tighter crop, or a lower crop, could have done away with the sky all together.
I think that's it... well, not "IT" but that's what I see... looking forward to hear everyone else's opinions!! :hide
Nikolai,
It's not possible for me to dig back into my archives to a year ago, so with your permission, I'd like to go ahead with this one... it's from about 9 months ago, but the first weekend I had my nice, pretty XTi and remains one of my favorites despite the many thousands I've taken since.
Hi Chris, thank you for entering!
I honestly don't have much to add to your self-critique... but I'll still try ;-)
I'm not a big fan of the non-standard crops
Compositionally I'm torn between the wheel and the plant. The latter seem to be natural focal point, with all the visible lines converging to it, but it's apparently OOF, while the wheel, which is the only in-focus subject, shoved so much to the side that it kinda loses any importance...
This is highly subjective, but IMHO this image is missing some key element to draw viewer's attention and making it memorable.
Patti, thank you for entering!
My biggest gripe is the composition. Dead center almost never helps. Along with it go tons and tons of empty (aka negative) space that have no value and simply defuse the dynamics of the shot.
I agree the second person doesn't help, but his hair would be a truly minor thing: his hand and face make Sting look like a three handed two faced monster. The intensity of lighting on both is nearly identical, so he's effectively stealing the focus from your primary subject. You need either more of him, or way less (preferably none).
HTH
there are some who actually THINK he's a 3 handed 2-faced monster but I digress...
Thanks so much for the critique. I need to develop my critical eye an incredible amount.
I see what you mean about Andy behind him. It hadn't really bothered me so much because I, as a fan, tend to have a more emotional reaction to the photo than critical eye up until now. The cropping issue I took care of but for some reason posted the original photo, not the edited.
Looking forward to more opportunities for critique.
The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
Hi Chris, thank you for entering!
I honestly don't have much to add to your self-critique... but I'll still try ;-)
I'm not a big fan of the non-standard crops
Compositionally I'm torn between the wheel and the plant. The latter seem to be natural focal point, with all the visible lines converging to it, but it's apparently OOF, while the wheel, which is the only in-focus subject, shoved so much to the side that it kinda loses any importance...
This is highly subjective, but IMHO this image is missing some key element to draw viewer's attention and making it memorable.
HTH
Thanks for you feedback, Nikolai!!
I am curious though...
Last I remember, and didn't check this before posting so I may be wrong, the crop was at an 8x10 ratio. Is that a crop size that doesn't sit well with you? Or is it just not reading as an 8x10 because of the elements of the image?
The plant is indeed slightly OOF... a coworker had just that morning showed me how to change the depth of field with the Av mode so I was experimenting all afternoon. I intended for the wheel to be the only in focus element to force it to be the subject, but I agree with you it's crammed to the side in a somewhat awkward way the subject.
Hmmm... I'm having trouble visualizing what else could be added to make the scene memorable (perhaps you'll send one or two of your models down here to help with that ) but this assignment has given me the inspiration I need for my next night out with the camera. Time to go back and see what "Round 2" will result in!
Thanks for the great assignment, let's do it again next year!!
Last I remember, and didn't check this before posting so I may be wrong, the crop was at an 8x10 ratio. Is that a crop size that doesn't sit well with you? Or is it just not reading as an 8x10 because of the elements of the image?
The plant is indeed slightly OOF... a coworker had just that morning showed me how to change the depth of field with the Av mode so I was experimenting all afternoon. I intended for the wheel to be the only in focus element to force it to be the subject, but I agree with you it's crammed to the side in a somewhat awkward way the subject.
Hmmm... I'm having trouble visualizing what else could be added to make the scene memorable (perhaps you'll send one or two of your models down here to help with that ) but this assignment has given me the inspiration I need for my next night out with the camera. Time to go back and see what "Round 2" will result in!
Thanks for the great assignment, let's do it again next year!!
Oh, it's 8x10? I myself very rarely use anything except 1:1, 2:3 and 4:10, so I'm biased
And yes, I agree we need to return to this in a year or so ( 9 months? ;-)
Oh, it's 8x10? I myself very rarely use anything except 1:1, 2:3 and 4:10, so I'm biased
And yes, I agree we need to return to this in a year or so ( 9 months? ;-)
This picture was shot last fall when I had only been really trying photography for about 8 months. My goal here was to take something that I could make look like an old picture. An old truck on the side of a dirt road where as most roads are now paved. I never did really get the Photoshopping done right that I wanted, but I liked the original shot.
Critique:
The color is too light or overexposed. It doesn't show how the leaves were changing colors well.
What sky you can see thru the trees is too bright and isn't the blue it should be.
The truck is in the shade too much and is kind of dark.
The picture as a whole does not really tell the story that I was going for.
This picture was shot last fall when I had only been really trying photography for about 8 months. My goal here was to take something that I could make look like an old picture. An old truck on the side of a dirt road where as most roads are now paved. I never did really get the Photoshopping done right that I wanted, but I liked the original shot.
Critique:
The color is too light or overexposed. It doesn't show how the leaves were changing colors well.
What sky you can see thru the trees is too bright and isn't the blue it should be.
The truck is in the shade too much and is kind of dark.
The picture as a whole does not really tell the story that I was going for.
Composition is kind of boring.
I know you will see more, so let me have it.
Thank you for the entry!
I agree. I think I see where you were going with it, but the image didn't deliver...It happens
Comments
BTW, folks, every class is an "open season" for critiques. I will provide one no matter what, but the more the merrier.
Feel free to C&C, that's what it is all about. The only difference for this one is:
1) do not repeat what has been already said by the OP or previous posters
2) no patting on the back. In fact, no positive comments at all.
Sorry about that, I'll remove the post.
Nikon Shooter
It's all about the moment...
I fully understand what you have said but I am a little put out by Nikolai dismissive comment that is was a snapshot, I expected Nikolia to critique it to pieces, not be dismissive of it. On a technical level it is a snapshot but it fulfils the criteria of the assignment of being one of the best shots I took at that time because it does what all photographs should do, it captures the moment.
Yes to me there is a lot more in the picture and if anybody else had posted a similar picture I would of made the same comments about it as I mention about it in the first post (2nd paragraph). Yes my picture is technically lacking in just about every aspect you can think of, but by pure chance it captures the moment perfectly, for me at least.
Please be as critical as you like about the picture but don't be dismissive of it. I knew full well what I was putting myself up for when I posted the picture and expected to get slated for it , but I was prepared to do it. I don't see many other putting their stronger photographs up for a slating.
I will finish with the following phrase:
Beauty is in the eye of the be-holder
Tim
with this particular class is neither the time not the place to get defensive. You want it sugar-coated? Try "cool shots", you'll get plenty.
You're interested in my opinion? I gave it to you. You want to hear more? Next time I'll ask for your best image try to present a better picture.
And please don't speak for others - look at Aaron's entry...
hey.
for the record that WAS my strongest shot in Oct and Nov of 2007. And as there have been a only a few daring to participate in this week's assignment, I take offense at that. Your shot sucked. If that's the best you did then, then congrats for coming such a long way! But emotion should NOT determine 'best' or not. I had others I considered, but I realized my bias was emotional, not logical. So I picked the best critical shot I had from that time period and proceeded to rip it apart. Was rather fun, actually. :hang
There is one thing for sure, I am not being defensive, I am open and frank about everything and offered my view of my photograph which included stating that it fails on just about every technical level going, I can't be much more frank than that.
Please don't patronise me, I know where Cool Shots is if I need it.
Maybe next time you post a similar assignment you should state your standard of an acceptable photograph more clearly.
As for speaking for other, no, I have spoken for no one other than myself.
In the time I have spent on dgrin Nikolia I had come to respect your comments and the effort you put into the assignment thread. I am beginning to think I have misjudged you.
Tim
My point exactly, where is everybody else?? At least I was willing to have ago (as were you)
Leah, I never mentioned anything about your picture, I saw it and read your critique of it and would agree with your comments about it, but I have made no reference to you or your picture in any of my comments.
You are right, on just about every level my picture does suck but does that give everybody the right to dismiss it as it does not reach some pre-conceived standard? Your (I don't mean you Leah) like or dislike of a photograph is a personal preference regardless of the pictures technical merits.
Tim
1) My name is "Nikolai", not "Nikolia"
2) You are defensive
3) "Snapshot" is a feedback.
4) I have indeed been putting a lot of time and efforts in this forum in general and in this thread in particular. It doesn't mean, however, that I should waste my time providing detailed critique for a picture that's not even worth looking at twice.
5) I wonder, did ever get an "F" in school? If so, was it always a reason to change the school or immediately start questionning your "grader" ability to do his/her job?
1) My sincere apologies for my mistake
2) I beg to differ
3) But it not a critique as per your assignment outlines
4) Your personal opinion which you are entitled to
5) Not as far as I can remember
I am going to let this go, not because I feel anybody has won or lost but because there is unlikely to be any agreement with any of this.
Tim
Here goes:
- desperately underexposed requiring major exposure adjustment resulting in less than sharp photo & noise.
- Sting looks like he's still got his 1980's mullet because Andy's hair is visible behind Sting's head.
- lack of detail in dark clothing
- crop could be tighter
There you go. Have at me.
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
patti hinton photography
oh I know you can critique yourself more than that!! :ivar
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
patti hinton photography
My biggest gripe is the composition. Dead center almost never helps. Along with it go tons and tons of empty (aka negative) space that have no value and simply defuse the dynamics of the shot.
I agree the second person doesn't help, but his hair would be a truly minor thing: his hand and face make Sting look like a three handed two faced monster. The intensity of lighting on both is nearly identical, so he's effectively stealing the focus from your primary subject. You need either more of him, or way less (preferably none).
HTH
Nikolai,
It's not possible for me to dig back into my archives to a year ago, so with your permission, I'd like to go ahead with this one... it's from about 9 months ago, but the first weekend I had my nice, pretty XTi and remains one of my favorites despite the many thousands I've taken since.
Where to begin...
1) the light wasn't quite right. Despite the high contrast conversion I attempted, there's more detail in the wheel than is showing. Being patient and waiting or returning when there was better light would have paid dividends in detail.
2) The fake IR conversion (channel mixed if I recall) led to "blown out" leaves in the plant to the left side of the wheel.
3) the high contrast (curves) created almost a black hole behind those blown out leaves (pretty much at the center of the image!!!) causing the eye to be drawn there due to the extremely high contrast between the two.
4) Noise appeared somewhere along the line... most noticably (at least to me) in the sky, where in the color version there was none.
5) the angular piece of sky conflicts with the circular form of the wheel and not in a good way... a tighter crop, or a lower crop, could have done away with the sky all together.
I think that's it... well, not "IT" but that's what I see... looking forward to hear everyone else's opinions!! :hide
SmugMug QA
My Photos
I honestly don't have much to add to your self-critique...
- I'm not a big fan of the non-standard crops
- Compositionally I'm torn between the wheel and the plant. The latter seem to be natural focal point, with all the visible lines converging to it, but it's apparently OOF, while the wheel, which is the only in-focus subject, shoved so much to the side that it kinda loses any importance...
- This is highly subjective, but IMHO this image is missing some key element to draw viewer's attention and making it memorable.
HTHThanks so much for the critique. I need to develop my critical eye an incredible amount.
I see what you mean about Andy behind him. It hadn't really bothered me so much because I, as a fan, tend to have a more emotional reaction to the photo than critical eye up until now. The cropping issue I took care of but for some reason posted the original photo, not the edited.
Looking forward to more opportunities for critique.
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
patti hinton photography
Thanks for you feedback, Nikolai!!
I am curious though...
- Last I remember, and didn't check this before posting so I may be wrong, the crop was at an 8x10 ratio. Is that a crop size that doesn't sit well with you? Or is it just not reading as an 8x10 because of the elements of the image?
- The plant is indeed slightly OOF... a coworker had just that morning showed me how to change the depth of field with the Av mode so I was experimenting all afternoon. I intended for the wheel to be the only in focus element to force it to be the subject, but I agree with you it's crammed to the side in a somewhat awkward way the subject.
- Hmmm... I'm having trouble visualizing what else could be added to make the scene memorable (perhaps you'll send one or two of your models down here to help with that
) but this assignment has given me the inspiration I need for my next night out with the camera. Time to go back and see what "Round 2" will result in! 
Thanks for the great assignment, let's do it again next year!!SmugMug QA
My Photos
Oh, it's 8x10? I myself very rarely use anything except 1:1, 2:3 and 4:10, so I'm biased
And yes, I agree we need to return to this in a year or so ( 9 months? ;-)
9 months works for me!!
SmugMug QA
My Photos
This picture was shot last fall when I had only been really trying photography for about 8 months. My goal here was to take something that I could make look like an old picture. An old truck on the side of a dirt road where as most roads are now paved. I never did really get the Photoshopping done right that I wanted, but I liked the original shot.
Critique:
- The color is too light or overexposed. It doesn't show how the leaves were changing colors well.
- What sky you can see thru the trees is too bright and isn't the blue it should be.
- The truck is in the shade too much and is kind of dark.
- The picture as a whole does not really tell the story that I was going for.
- Composition is kind of boring.
I know you will see more, so let me have it."If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event...what kind of film would you use?" - Anonymous
Thank you for the entry!
I agree. I think I see where you were going with it, but the image didn't deliver...It happens