Portrait auto rotating and color effects, ugh!

Netgarden

Hi, well I'm not one for changes when all is just about perfect, but I'll tolerate, lol, so bear with me.
For a few weeks my portrait style photos have been auto rotating. I really don't have time to go back in and correct all this. Is it a bug?

My biggest disappointment of the week is the new 'color effect' in the drop down, a real pia. One wants to compare all 4, and I often like to check and see how close I came to auto-correct and decide which is best. Thats over with. The auto color correction is horrible and I can't imagine people spending time looking at the newly glowing photos, deleting them and then searching the PC again to reupload the originals which have already been worked on.

Any way you can continue the old style color correct, it was sooooo much better and soooo much more useful! Also, most of us spend alot of time processing and want the photos to look exactly the same after uploading...
Has your color calibration changed? And also what can I do to continue 'true color' so my albums aren't so flamin' bright? thnx again.

Andy

Netgarden wrote:

Hi, well I'm not one for changes when all is just about perfect, but I'll tolerate, lol, so bear with me.
For a few weeks my portrait style photos have been auto rotating. I really don't have time to go back in and correct all this. Is it a bug?

No Linda, we've been auto-rotating based on proper Exif for a long time now. How are you processing, what software?

Any way you can continue the old style color correct,

Linda, we've not changed our color effects tool at all. Same for years.

Please be more specific about what changes you are seeing, okay?

"True Color" is for printing - it means that at the lab, NO adjustments will be made to your photos before printing. Auto Color means that, at the lab, we'll adjust your photos for color, skin tone, exposure, density and sharpness.

http://wiki.smugmug.net/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=754083
http://www.smugmug.com/help/too-red

PBolchover

Andy wrote:

Linda, we've not changed our color effects tool at all. Same for years.

Sometime (possibly around 6-9 months ago), the size of the photo previews in the color effects tool was increased. There were complaints at the time that for people with smaller screens, this made the previews lie above one another, instead of the previous 2x2 grid.

Andy

PBolchover wrote:

Sometime (possibly around 6-9 months ago), the size of the photo previews in the color effects tool was increased. There were complaints at the time that for people with smaller screens, this made the previews lie above one another, instead of the previous 2x2 grid.

I was referring to the 'recipe'

Netgarden

Hi Andy, thnx. Sorry I ignored this, I was out of town for two weeks.
I don't know what is causing the [already processed portrait photos] to rotate sideways after uploading them on smugmug. Rotating and processing in either DPP or PaintShopPro has not changed for me in two years. Exif info has not changed in my work, ever, and they uploaded perfectly for two years, already rotated by me]. It appears you have a auto rotate thing going on for people who might upload photos to smugmug straight from their camera? Geez how many people do that???

2-And I have not changed my spyder calibrated screen for over a year. The home page seems brighter than it used to be. [and photos too], however not changed anywhere else on my PC. I just don't have time right now to do screen shots for you. But I am picky about color and would like all my photos to upload exactly as I have processed them. Do I now have to customize that feature in every album?? Thnx. [I didn't have to do that before, but will if needed.]

3-the drop down menu for Gallery Tools has changed. It's now black, and now we click on More in the Many Photos column to get to "color effects", [now called 'Apply Color effects', which you no longer have your original photo to compare to 'auto' and 'tan' effect. They are small thumbs, you can't tell what the color effects are at that point. The main photo is no longer there to compare except as a thumbnail. Then you have only 3 choices, 'select all', 'Colorize' and 'Deselect'. If you are not careful you can mistakingly change every darn photo in the album, to a bright overcolored photo, when all you really want to see is the original and the 4 options of color effects. This is all new. So at that point I don't know of one person who would change a photo when they can't even see it, except as a highlighted thumbnail [before you had 4 effects, + only your original, you could compare them all side by side easily].

Now you have a "colorize" button, you click on it to see how your photo looks 'colorized', and wham, its already been done. Permanently! And you havn't even seen it yet. A "Your photo has been COLORIZED! ---VERY different than before and totally useless + risky, really. Then you have to go back to the album to find the photo that smugmug auto colorized. Who would want to have to go back hunting not only for that photo again in the album just to see it, but also having to go back to the PC for the original again to replace the 'overly vivid' new one? The previous color changes were subtle, and not a huge change in the photo, and easy to boot.

The old way was so much more productive and usefull.
thnx for any help.

AnneMcBean

Netgarden wrote:

Hi Andy, thnx. Sorry I ignored this, I was out of town for two weeks.
I don't know what is causing the [already processed portrait photos] to rotate sideways after uploading them on smugmug. Rotating and processing in either DPP or PaintShopPro has not changed for me in two years. Exif info has not changed in my work, ever, and they uploaded perfectly for two years, already rotated by me].

Me neither, sorry! I'm not aware of anything that changed recently on our end. You haven't changed your workflow at all? Using a different uploader perhaps? I haven't heard this reported by other customers, either, so I'm not sure how to pinpoint what's going on in your case.

Netgarden wrote:

It appears you have a auto rotate thing going on for people who might upload photos to smugmug straight from their camera? Geez how many people do that???

Lots, you'd be surprised. Typically even if you process photos before adding to SmugMug, the rotation is handled properly in the EXIF so SmugMug just does the right thing.

Netgarden wrote:

2-And I have not changed my spyder calibrated screen for over a year. The home page seems brighter than it used to be. [and photos too], however not changed anywhere else on my PC. I just don't have time right now to do screen shots for you.

Our homepage seems brighter? It used to be a true black but it's "off-black" now and has been for months. Easier on the eyes, flattering to photos. We certainly haven't gone through and changed everyone's photos, though!

Netgarden wrote:

But I am picky about color and would like all my photos to upload exactly as I have processed them. Do I now have to customize that feature in every album?? Thnx. [I didn't have to do that before, but will if needed.]

We don't modify your original images (unless we needed to convert them to sRGB), and the only modification we make to display sizes is sharpening. You can adjust your custom sharpening levels in your customize gallery settings and we'll use those instead of our defaults. We don't attempt to color correct photos for display. Ever.

The true vs. auto setting you see in the "Printing" section of your customize gallery settings is for print orders. Like Andy mentioned, "True" means we print your photos as-is. "Auto" means we use a secret sauce at the lab to adjust your photos.

NOTE: The Auto color option for prints is NOT the same as the "autocolor" in the "apply color effects" photo tool. The photo tool, unfortunately, doesn't have the same level of sophistication.

Netgarden wrote:

3-the drop down menu for Gallery Tools has changed. It's now black, and now we click on More in the Many Photos column to get to "color effects", [now called 'Apply Color effects', which you no longer have your original photo to compare to 'auto' and 'tan' effect. They are small thumbs, you can't tell what the color effects are at that point. The main photo is no longer there to compare except as a thumbnail. Then you have only 3 choices, 'select all', 'Colorize' and 'Deselect'. If you are not careful you can mistakingly change every darn photo in the album, to a bright overcolored photo, when all you really want to see is the original and the 4 options of color effects. This is all new. So at that point I don't know of one person who would change a photo when they can't even see it, except as a highlighted thumbnail [before you had 4 effects, + only your original, you could compare them all side by side easily].

Actually, we haven't changed the tools.

Here's what changed: We used to have a Photo Tools pull down menu and a Gallery tools pull down menu. They were hard to find, and located beneath the photos on the page in SmugMug viewing style. We now have a single Tools button up near the top, that holds all the good stuff together.

We've always had two different Color Effects tools. One is for a single photo, and shows a preview of each effect. One is for multiple photos and does not show previews. We typically find that people use the single photo tool for things like tanning salon or autocolor, where they are wondering what the final outcome will look like. The bulk Color Effects tool is used more often for black&white and sepia conversions, because people often want to just get several photos at once into b&w.

Netgarden wrote:

Now you have a "colorize" button, you click on it to see how your photo looks 'colorized', and wham, its already been done. Permanently! And you havn't even seen it yet. A "Your photo has been COLORIZED! ---VERY different than before and totally useless + risky, really. Then you have to go back to the album to find the photo that smugmug auto colorized.

We changed the name of the button, but none of the functionality. Sorry for the confusion, but we've never shown previews for the bulk color effects tool. If you want a preview, you'll need to use the single photo tool instead.

Netgarden wrote:

Who would want to have to go back hunting not only for that photo again in the album just to see it, but also having to go back to the PC for the original again to replace the 'overly vivid' new one? The previous color changes were subtle, and not a huge change in the photo, and easy to boot.

As Andy mentioned, we didn't change the recipe for any of the color effects at all.

Netgarden wrote:

The old way was so much more productive and usefull.
thnx for any help.

From what I'm understand, you'll be happy using the This Photo: Apply Color Effects tool found in the new Tools button, because it's the same as the "Color Effects" tool found previously in the photo tools pull down menu.

Have you noticed we added the ability to edit with Picnik to the Tools menu? It's pretty great. I'd highly recommend giving it a spin.

Of course, if you have further questions or concerns, please let us know!

-Anne Bean
Mistress of Help

Netgarden

OK, thanx Anne. I realize now that I was clicking on the Many Photos- More option. Where it's all thumbnails. I found the More in "This Photo" and there was the add effects in there as before.
Thnx again!

Netgarden

Sorry, I forgot this question again. How do we turn off auto-rotate in our galleries? thnx

Allen

Netgarden wrote:

Sorry, I forgot this question again. How do we turn off auto-rotate in our galleries? thnx

Can't do so whatever your camera sticks in the EXIF and your editing program
doesn't auto-rotate and you manually rotate it, it'll drive you nuts.

Had this problem many moons ago with PSP.

Netgarden

Allen wrote:

Can't do so whatever your camera sticks in the EXIF and your editing program
doesn't auto-rotate and you manually rotate it, it'll drive you nuts.

Had this problem many moons ago with PSP.

Thats just not true. I have never had a problem, my exif has never changed, nor my processing, it's smugmug thats not the same, and why would anyone who processes want to spend doubletime rotating a photo? You have to rotate it to work on it for crying out loud. They have never rotated in smugmug before, this is a new glitch. Can't you at least give us an option when we make our albums?

Andy

Netgarden wrote:

Thats just not true. I have never had a problem, my exif has never changed, nor my processing, it's smugmug thats not the same, and why would anyone who processes want to spend doubletime rotating a photo? You have to rotate it to work on it for crying out loud. They have never rotated in smugmug before, this is a new glitch. Can't you at least give us an option when we make our albums?

Hey Linda, please send us two files.

1) file right from camera.
2) same file, edited in PSP and saved in your normal way.

Send it via our yousendit box, http://dropbox.yousendit.com/SmugMug put ATTN: Sebastian in the subj.

Thanks!

Netgarden

Thnx Andy, I will do this today.
The only other thing I can think of is my camera might be auto-rotating, come to think of it. [which I have never had before, but I noticed a few auto-rotated recently.] Do you think that could be it? It's hard to say because sometimes I crop a photo that is landscape style, to make it a portrait type photo, so there is no rotating on those. Unfortunately I do not remember exactly which photos auto-rotate in smugmug because I fix them after. So I need to try it again now. I see in the exif though on portrait style that the exif does not say auto-rotated. It says Orientation/left bottom.

OK I checked my camera and it was on auto-rotate. Could that be it? They don't download to my pc auto rotated however. So I rotate them in processing. I'll try a few tonight and see if that makes a difference.

Andy wrote:

Hey Linda, please send us two files.

1) file right from camera.
2) same file, edited in PSP and saved in your normal way.

Send it via our yousendit box, http://dropbox.yousendit.com/SmugMug put ATTN: Sebastian in the subj.

Thanks!

Netgarden

OK I think I have figured it out. Hope it is the in camera [auto-rotate].
My MKIII has been auto rotating portrait style. But it does not upload to my PC that way so I rotate them in processing. But possibly the exif has shown the camera exif as auto-rotate. [see screen shot below]. I sent Sebastian the original [not rotated on my pc] and then the processed one also. I uploaded the processed-rotated final photo sample to smug mug and it auto-rotates it. [see egret in screen shot of album] . I now have changed the camera to not auto-rotate. Maybe that will do it. Thnx for your help on this! Fingers crossed. My post above explains more.

Netgarden wrote:

Thnx Andy, I will do this today.
The only other thing I can think of is my camera might be auto-rotating, come to think of it. [which I have never had before, but I noticed a few auto-rotated recently.] Do you think that could be it? It's hard to say because sometimes I crop a photo that is landscape style, to make it a portrait type photo, so there is no rotating on those. Unfortunately I do not remember exactly which photos auto-rotate in smugmug because I fix them after. So I need to try it again now. I see in the exif though on portrait style that the exif does not say auto-rotated. It says Orientation/left bottom.

OK I checked my camera and it was on auto-rotate. Could that be it? They don't download to my pc auto rotated however. So I rotate them in processing. I'll try a few tonight and see if that makes a difference.

rainforest1155

Netgarden wrote:

OK I think I have figured it out. Hope it is the in camera [auto-rotate].
My MKIII has been auto rotating portrait style. But it does not upload to my PC that way so I rotate them in processing. But possibly the exif has shown the camera exif as auto-rotate. [see screen shot below]. I sent Sebastian the original [not rotated on my pc] and then the processed one also. I uploaded the processed-rotated final photo sample to smug mug and it auto-rotates it. [see egret in screen shot of album] . I now have changed the camera to not auto-rotate. Maybe that will do it. Thnx for your help on this! Fingers crossed. My post above explains more.

Hey Linda,
That's right - it's the auto-rotation. But not the camera is the one that is making a mistake, Paint Shop Pro is either set to ignore the EXIF auto-rotation info or it doesn't support it. You can see here what I see on my Mac for the two photos that you sent me:
1. the original straight out of the camera has the rotation set to 90° CCW (counter-clock-wise) and that makes Apple Preview and SmugMug show the file properly rotated.

2. your photo processed in Paintshop still has this EXIF rotation set to the same value - it hasn't been reset by Paintshop and that's why Apple Preview and SmugMug rotates it again. They don't know it has all ready been rotated.

If you have to manually rotate a photo in Paintshop that is displayed all ready rotated on your camera, then you know that Paintshop ignores or doesn't support the EXIF orientation tag.

Maybe it's a setting in Paintshop? What exact version of Paintshop are you using?

Sebastian

Allen

rainforest1155 wrote:

Hey Linda,
That's right - it's the auto-rotation. But not the camera is the one that is making a mistake, Paint Shop Pro is either set to ignore the EXIF auto-rotation info or it doesn't support it. You can see here what I see on my Mac for the two photos that you sent me:
1. the original straight out of the camera has the rotation set to 90° CCW (counter-clock-wise) and that makes Apple Preview and SmugMug show the file properly rotated.

2. your photo processed in Paintshop still has this EXIF rotation set to the same value - it hasn't been reset by Paintshop and that's why Apple Preview and SmugMug rotates it again. They don't know it has all ready been rotated.

If you have to manually rotate a photo in Paintshop that is displayed all ready rotated on your camera, then you know that Paintshop ignores or doesn't support the EXIF orientation tag.

Maybe it's a setting in Paintshop? What exact version of Paintshop are you using?

Sebastian

Some history.
I'm at v10X but this first came up couple years ago with same rotation
problem. I think setting auto-rotate in PSP solved it. So somewhere in this
forum there's an old thread. found it
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=69183
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=620176&postcount=10

Netgarden

Thnx for the links Allen. I read them, and agree, my two other album sites do not rotate them, so it is the feature that smugmug offers the mass. However I did not have the problem until recently, so am hoping the in camera auto-rotate caused this. [which I don't need anyway so changed it]I'll also check my PSP9 settings, which as far as I know I do not have auto-rotate on. I manually rotate. I'll try my in camera changes first as this was the first time I've had auto-rotate on in camera, hoping that bit caused the recent problem.
Thanks for the support everyone!

Allen wrote:

Some history.
I'm at v10X but this first came up couple years ago with same rotation
problem. I think setting auto-rotate in PSP solved it. So somewhere in this
forum there's an old thread. found it
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=69183
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=620176&postcount=10