from 40D to d300 any thoughts?

midnight rider · November 3, 2008

I am contemplating going from my 40D to a D300. has anyone here made that switch? What are your findings or thoughts? Any regrets or surprises? What did you like or dislike?
Same questions for those who went from a D300 to a 40D
Thanks all

swintonphoto · November 3, 2008

My first question is why? How is the 40D limiting you?

midnight rider · November 3, 2008

swintonphoto wrote:

My first question is why? How is the 40D limiting you?

Taking photos of birds ( especially in flight) or my kids the AF seems to really limit me. Other than that is is an amazing camera.

Art Scott · November 3, 2008

What lenses do you have? Could be all you need is better quality in lenses, as there are a bunch of canonites that shoot nature (BIFs and also the fast moving sports) so I can't see how the 40D is a limiting factor.....you made just need o anticipate when you need to release the shutter at a more optimum time....

midnight rider · November 3, 2008

Art Scott wrote:

What lenses do you have? Could be all you need is better quality in lenses, as there are a bunch of canonites that shoot nature (BIFs and also the fast moving sports) so I can't see how the 40D is a limiting factor.....you made just need o anticipate when you need to release the shutter at a more optimum time....

My indoor lens is a 50mm f/1.4 so the micro usm is not as fast as the ring type on the L lenses. My birding lens is a 300mm f/4l is and is really freakin fast on a 1D. not so much on my 40D.
" canonites" ? Are you a Nikoner? Have you used both?

kini62 · November 4, 2008

Art Scott wrote:

What lenses do you have? Could be all you need is better quality in lenses, as there are a bunch of canonites that shoot nature (BIFs and also the fast moving sports) so I can't see how the 40D is a limiting factor.....you made just need o anticipate when you need to release the shutter at a more optimum time....

I have the same question (sort of) in my thread asking about AF tracking between Canon and Nikon.

The 40D with the Canon 70-200/2.8 is only so-so in AI Servo. So far only up to U8 girls soccer. Using single point only is a pain sometimes. Hard to keep it on the target at longer distances.

It seems that the AF just cannot keep up. Example- a player, again we're talking 8yo girls, coming from just beyond half field heading straight towards me, break away, dribbling, I start tracking a few seconds before I start to shoot, I fire off about 6-8 shots. Maybe 1 or 2 are sharp, sometimes none, most are soft and some are completely OOF.

I tested in good light with my daughter running straight at me, up my driveway and the results are like I said, so-so. There has to be better than what the 40D gives.

So is the D300 better for this type of photography?

Gene

ziggy53 · November 4, 2008

kini62 wrote:

... I tested in good light with my daughter running straight at me, up my driveway and the results are like I said, so-so. There has to be better than what the 40D gives.

So is the D300 better for this type of photography?

Gene

Now that's weird. On my very first outing with the 40D and a Sigma "Bigma" I tried some BIFs and the 40D tracked the birds nicely. I didn't try the same test with the Canon 70-200mm "L" but I have used the 40D at an event with lots of kids running around and such and I was very pleased with the 40D and 70-200mm "L". Not the same as the 70-200mm on a 1D body but no real problems. For the event I was shooting in Single-Shot mode but for the BIFs I used AI Servo.

kini62 · November 4, 2008

ziggy53 wrote:

Now that's weird. On my very first outing with the 40D and a Sigma "Bigma" I tried some BIFs and the 40D tracked the birds nicely. I didn't try the same test with the Canon 70-200mm "L" but I have used the 40D at an event with lots of kids running around and such and I was very pleased with the 40D and 70-200mm "L". Not the same as the 70-200mm on a 1D body but no real problems. For the event I was shooting in Single-Shot mode but for the BIFs I used AI Servo.

I appreciate the comments Ziggy, but BIF is not the same as sports. Birds tend to fly a lot parallel to the camera and move at pretty steady speeds.

I'm sort of pleased with the AF performance except when I have a really good shot ruined because it's OOF for some unknown reason.

I'd really like a 1DMkIII, but am concerned a little about the randomness of OOF shots from it as well.

My interest in the D300 stems from it's price. I can get a D300 and Sigma 70-200 for less than $2000. More than $1000 less than a MkIII alone.

From what I can gather, it seems that most feel the AF of the D300 is nearly as good if not better than the MKIII.

This is what I'm trying to find out. Just how good the D300 AF is for tracking in sports related situations.

Gene

ziggy53 · November 5, 2008

kini62 wrote:

... My interest in the D300 stems from it's price. I can get a D300 and Sigma 70-200 for less than $2000. More than $1000 less than a MkIII alone.

From what I can gather, it seems that most feel the AF of the D300 is nearly as good if not better than the MKIII.

This is what I'm trying to find out. Just how good the D300 AF is for tracking in sports related situations.

Gene

Gene,

I suspect you will find that the Nikon D300 AF is considerably better than the 40D, and almost as good as the Canon 1D/1Ds series (... and I mean that the D300 and 1D are in the same class of extremely good AF speed. Any difference will be a matter of small percentages.)

There are rental houses that carry the D300 and lenses and that might give you a more definitive experience as to whether the D300 is right for you. There is nothing quite like using a camera for a while to really "understand" how the camera will work for you and your situation.

TonyL · November 5, 2008

I like the D300 better than the 40D as I am not {Gasp} a canon fan.
However, I think its a lateral move.
As others have said its the glass.

midnight rider · November 5, 2008

ziggy53 wrote:

Gene,

I suspect you will find that the Nikon D300 AF is considerably better than the 40D, and almost as good as the Canon 1D/1Ds series (... and I mean that the D300 and 1D are in the same class of extremely good AF speed. Any difference will be a matter of small percentages.)

There are rental houses that carry the D300 and lenses and that might give you a more definitive experience as to whether the D300 is right for you. There is nothing quite like using a camera for a while to really "understand" how the camera will work for you and your situation.

What is a good place to rent from. I think it is a great idea and I want to try that first but I have never rented anything before.

TonyL · November 5, 2008

http://www.prophotorental.com/categories.asp?cid=3&c=5468

heard great things from them.

i_worship_the_King · November 5, 2008

Not to sound crazy, but if you're thinking of going to a new body why not go to a 1D series? The D300 is great, but I'm not sure it's better than a 1dMII that's lightly used, plus you can keep your current glass...

I'm all for getting another Nikon user, but this seems like a bad idea...

kini62 · November 5, 2008

ziggy53 wrote:

Gene,

I suspect you will find that the Nikon D300 AF is considerably better than the 40D, and almost as good as the Canon 1D/1Ds series (... and I mean that the D300 and 1D are in the same class of extremely good AF speed. Any difference will be a matter of small percentages.)

There are rental houses that carry the D300 and lenses and that might give you a more definitive experience as to whether the D300 is right for you. There is nothing quite like using a camera for a while to really "understand" how the camera will work for you and your situation.

Thanks again Ziggy. Rental is not an option here. I know one person that has a D300 and I only know her through her brother who is a co-worker. I would not be comfortable asking to borrow it:D

I should be getting my Sigma 120-300 back from repair (after more than 2 months:cry ) tomorrow. The last soccer of the year is Saturday. Hopefully I'll finally get to use it. If it works as good as my 70-200 I'll have a harder time letting go on my Canon gear. I don't know when or if I'd be able to get a replacement in Nikon due to the cost of switching.

As my last real sports use until next March is this Saturday, I'll have the next 5 months to think about it and see if used MKIII prices come down some more.

Gene

midnight rider · November 5, 2008

i_worship_the_King wrote:

Not to sound crazy, but if you're thinking of going to a new body why not go to a 1D series? The D300 is great, but I'm not sure it's better than a 1dMII that's lightly used, plus you can keep your current glass...

I'm all for getting another Nikon user, but this seems like a bad idea...

I have thought of that and it was heavy on my mine but then I started wondering. What if something happens? Canon will not be willing to repair the 1D mk2 much longer, if they will now? I would also be stepping back to digic 2 and many other outdated aspects. I really like Canon and they have been great. But this year they really missed. The 50D is so problematic that the people that I know that sold their 40D and " upgraded" are begging for their 40Ds back.

I went and played with a D300 today at a local Circuit City and I have to say. It is not nearly as user friendly ( maybe because I learned on a Canon ) but the wheels are so much easier to access and the viewfinder is so bright and clean. I see it as a chance to get a New camera with todays tech and a great AF system.

i_worship_the_King · November 5, 2008

I'm planning to purchase a used EOS-1D Mark II for christmas this year and was wondering how much longer Canon will provide support and/or repair for this product. I'm sure there's probably not a hard number, but based on previous Pro-Grade products can you give an estimate?

Thanks,
Matt

Just emailed Canon support. Let's see what they have to say (mostly because I'm curious. Get the D300 and some long VR lenses - I've never been disappointed...)

i_worship_the_King · November 5, 2008

Dear Mr. Beitzel:

Thank you for contacting Canon product support, and for your interest in
the EOS 1D Mark II.

Unfortunately, there is not a set date for when the 1D Mark II will go
out of service life. We still repair the original 1D which was released
in 2001; three years before the 1D Mark II.

We hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if we
can be of any further assistance.

Sincerely,

Erik
Technical Support Representative</pre>

And the reply. Looks like you'll be good for a WHILE - they're still repairing the Mark I. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="" >

midnight rider · November 6, 2008

i_worship_the_King wrote:

And the reply. Looks like you'll be good for a WHILE - they're still repairing the Mark I.

For a cost i am sure. No warranty work.

NeilL · November 6, 2008

midnight rider wrote:

and the viewfinder is so bright and clean. I see it as a chance to get a New camera with todays tech and a great AF system.

Is this referring to the Canon or the Nikon?

i_worship_the_King · November 6, 2008

midnight rider wrote:

For a cost i am sure. No warranty work.

I've never actually 'broken' a camera. Things have worn out, yes, but not broken. I've even seen a 1D get tackled on the sidelines (it was lying on the ground at the time) and still shoot like a champ. The lens focus ring was shot, but the body worked great

.

I don't think you're going to have worries about used Pro-Grade gear with a lower amount of clicks. However it sounds like you've already talked yourself into dropping the cash - get the one you want

kdog · November 6, 2008

midnight rider wrote:

The 50D is so problematic that the people that I know that sold their 40D and " upgraded" are begging for their 40Ds back.

Really? Why?

cmason · November 6, 2008

I often shoot U8 and U12 girls soccer, mostly as that is all I have the time for

I use a 40D and have a friend that shoots a D300. I have seen no better/more focused shots from his camera, at least not in any significant difference, but I am not sure what settings he is using.

In any case, I have years with a XT and my new 40D, so am familiar with the Canon focus system. But after all these years, I too have been frustrated with the focus system and often simply rely on one shot, single-point focus. This is certainly reliable. But there are times where I would like the predictive 'smarts' of the camera to help me out, especially where the action is heading toward the camera. But often I find the camera has chosen a different subject to focus on than my daughter (stupid camera). So there are limits to what any camera can do: maybe someday we will be able to teach our camera to favor one player over another..who knows.

Anyway, I recently discovered something new: you can mixed AI Servo with multi-point focus. I never knew this...I usually have my focus on a single focal pt, moving it around to aide in composition. I almost never use multi-point focus, since it isnt useful. But when you have one focus pt and AI servo on, the AI only really functions with the one point, i have found. I discovered I get a much better keeper rate when I switch the camera to multi-point focus and AI servo. In fact I did an experiement in one game, where i shot half the game in my usual manner, and the other half in htis new way. Many more shots in focus in the new way, even though often the focus point was no specifically on my subject. I do find that if you want the best pixel-peeper clarity, single focus pt, nailed on your subject is best of course.

Will try to post pics later (when I get home) to support this, as well as screen grabs of the focal pts in ImagerBrowser.

NeilL · November 6, 2008

cmason wrote:

I often shoot U8 and U12 girls soccer, mostly as that is all I have the time for

I use a 40D and have a friend that shoots a D300. I have seen no better/more focused shots from his camera, at least not in any significant difference, but I am not sure what settings he is using.

In any case, I have years with a XT and my new 40D, so am familiar with the Canon focus system. But after all these years, I too have been frustrated with the focus system and often simply rely on one shot, single-point focus. This is certainly reliable. But there are times where I would like the predictive 'smarts' of the camera to help me out, especially where the action is heading toward the camera. But often I find the camera has chosen a different subject to focus on than my daughter (stupid camera). So there are limits to what any camera can do: maybe someday we will be able to teach our camera to favor one player over another..who knows.

Anyway, I recently discovered something new: you can mixed AI Servo with multi-point focus. I never knew this...I usually have my focus on a single focal pt, moving it around to aide in composition. I almost never use multi-point focus, since it isnt useful. But when you have one focus pt and AI servo on, the AI only really functions with the one point, i have found. I discovered I get a much better keeper rate when I switch the camera to multi-point focus and AI servo. In fact I did an experiement in one game, where i shot half the game in my usual manner, and the other half in htis new way. Many more shots in focus in the new way, even though often the focus point was no specifically on my subject. I do find that if you want the best pixel-peeper clarity, single focus pt, nailed on your subject is best of course.

Will try to post pics later (when I get home) to support this, as well as screen grabs of the focal pts in ImagerBrowser.

Yes, it has always been my understanding that AI servo and multipoint focus are meant to be used together. This was the gist I got from reading around in other forums, I think mainly at DPR, a year or so ago.

Why would the quality differ, whether you achieved good focus one way or the other?

cmason · November 6, 2008

NeilL wrote:

Why would the quality differ, whether you achieved good focus one way or the other?

Ah, the issue is getting good focus. In single point mode, often the subject moves out of range of the single point, leading to more 'out of focus" shots. Better said, the image is in perfect focus, just not on your intended subject.

At least with multi-pt focus, the moving subject has a better chance of being in the focus area.

Hey, happy to be stupid on this one, but it was not obvious to me that one needs to not only select AI Servo, but ALSO select multi-pt focus. Just a bit of advice to give it a shot if you, like me, didn't know this.

NeilL · November 6, 2008

cmason wrote:

At least with multi-pt focus, the moving subject has a better chance of being in the focus area.

Yes, this is how I understand it.

cmason wrote:

Hey, happy to be stupid on this one, but it was not obvious to me that one needs to not only select AI Servo, but ALSO select multi-pt focus. Just a bit of advice to give it a shot if you, like me, didn't know this.

Didn't mean to cast any aspersions. Man, you couldn't be dumber than me about all this stuff!

So, thanks for your post, it served to remind me.

kini62 · November 6, 2008

cmason wrote:

I often shoot U8 and U12 girls soccer, mostly as that is all I have the time for

Anyway, I recently discovered something new: you can mixed AI Servo with multi-point focus. I never knew this...I usually have my focus on a single focal pt, moving it around to aide in composition. I almost never use multi-point focus, since it isnt useful. But when you have one focus pt and AI servo on, the AI only really functions with the one point, i have found. I discovered I get a much better keeper rate when I switch the camera to multi-point focus and AI servo. In fact I did an experiement in one game, where i shot half the game in my usual manner, and the other half in htis new way. Many more shots in focus in the new way, even though often the focus point was no specifically on my subject. I do find that if you want the best pixel-peeper clarity, single focus pt, nailed on your subject is best of course.

Will try to post pics later (when I get home) to support this, as well as screen grabs of the focal pts in ImagerBrowser.

I've tried it both ways and found that I got more shots misfocused onto other players with all point active.

This was a while ago with U6 girls. Maybe I'll give it another chance this weekend, last game of the year, U8 girls. At least in U8 there tends to be more action that is not "pack" related.

Oh and I'll have my Sigma 120-300 back from repair to test out as well.

Gene

midnight rider · November 6, 2008

NeilL wrote:

Is this referring to the Canon or the Nikon?

That was in reference to the Nikon. Although that Canon 1D series has a great viewfinder as well.

midnight rider · November 6, 2008

i_worship_the_King wrote:

I've never actually 'broken' a camera. Things have worn out, yes, but not broken. I've even seen a 1D get tackled on the sidelines (it was lying on the ground at the time) and still shoot like a champ. The lens focus ring was shot, but the body worked great .

I don't think you're going to have worries about used Pro-Grade gear with a lower amount of clicks. However it sounds like you've already talked yourself into dropping the cash - get the one you want

I have. I am trying to sell the Canon gear now to fund some of the Nikon stuff. I am still going to come out of pocket quite a bit but the last thing I want is to buy the new system before that old one sells and end up with both. ( my wife would kill me)
No doubt that the Canon 1D series is tough. They are IMO the toughest around. I am just having issues with Canon right now. Nothing to do with my gear but I really had my hopes up on the new models this year and I was very let down.

midnight rider · November 6, 2008

kdog wrote:

Really? Why?

Most that I know have told me that the noise is worse than the 40D and they even have sever banding at ISO 800. I am not trying to start something but that is what I have been told. maybe they all got bad copies.

NeilL · November 7, 2008

midnight rider wrote:

That was in reference to the Nikon. Although that Canon 1D series has a great viewfinder as well.

Roger. Thanks.

Bayou Dad · November 7, 2008

midnight rider wrote:

I am contemplating going from my 40D to a D300. has anyone here made that switch? What are your findings or thoughts? Any regrets or surprises? What did you like or dislike?
Same questions for those who went from a D300 to a 40D
Thanks all

I have a Nikon D300 and use it for sports. The 3D tracking is fast enough to follow football and fastpitch softball. I also use a Nikkor 80-200 f/2.8 and the focusing is fast in bright or low light. Check out my SmugMug site for examples.

from 40D to d300 any thoughts?

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