New 1D Mark III or refurbished?

PixNW

Okay, thanks to Ziggy and the other helpful folks here I made my decision about a used Mark II N or a new 50D. After reading about the Mark II N and the Mark III, and looking at what good used II N's were going for, I decided that a Mark III is the way I want to go.

Here is my question. B&H is $3,999 for a new 1D Mk III, with free shipping. Adorama has Canon Refurbished 1D Mk III's for $3,049. I haven't confirmed yet if the refurbished units have a one year warranty or not, but I'm assuming that they probably do. I've read a few reports about other 1D's being sent in for the AF issue, and coming back with some other problems. I'm sure it's a matter of a few folks being vocal about it, and maybe it really isn't a problem. If the camera has a one year warranty it would be less of an issue for me. I am assuming that these refurbished cameras may be units that were turned in by pro's for the AF issue, and Canon sent them new cameras and then fixed the sent in units and refurbished them?

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. If the refurbished unit has a one year warranty is saving about $950 worth it? If it doesn't have a warranty, is it still worth it?

ON EDIT: I just found out it's a 90 Day Adorama Warranty. What says the collective? Refurb or new?

Thanks again.

ian408

If you can be assured the camera is not within the affected serial number range or that Canon has serviced the refurb, it might be OK.

Personally, I'd get the new one if you plan on keeping it for a while.

kini62

$3049 is a really good price. 90 days is long enough to determine if it works properly.

Used MkIIIs seem to go for a little more, though some of them still have quite a bit a factory warranty on them and some come with several $100 Canon service vouchers.

Check FM buy/sell.

What is Adorama's return policy? 10? 14? days?

Gene

PixNW

Adoramas return policy is 7 days on digital items, per their website. They say it's for a full refund (less return shipping), or a credit, it's the buyers choice. The 90 day warranty is for manufacturers defects only.

Should I try to find out how many actuations the units have on them? I suppose maybe they're new enough that it may not matter much?

There is only one review on the refurb units on Adoramas site, and the guy said that when he put the body cap on and took a shot and zoomed in there were some bad pixel spots. I would assume that if you did that right away that you could probably return it?

I'm sort of torn here. I tend to take very good care of things, and keep them for a while. Over $900 in savings is quite a bit for mostly giving up nine months worth of warranty. The savings is almost enough for a 300 f4L.

I'd really appreciate any more feedback or thoughts that anyone has.

ian408

It's not uncommon to have a dead pixel or two. If you read through the specs, you will find a note addressing this. Canon can go over the camera and do some repair work though again, you can't expect 100% perfect pixels.

PixNW

Thanks jan. So what should I do? $900 is a pretty decent amount to save, though having something from new and having the extra warranty is nice too. I'll order within the next day or so, after I figure out which way to go.

I see B&H dropped the price on the 50D body by about $200 today. I was hoping they did the same for the Mk III, but alas, no such luck.

ian408

Well let me ask you a question. The question would be of the features the mkIII has, which ones do you really need? I would argue that the 50D has a similar set of features and if you don't need all of those extra features, you could save yourself a ton of money and get a 50D instead.

PixNW

I shoot quite a bit of sports, so the faster frame rate is nice. From what I've read, for action shooting the 1D's AF is in a class by themselves, and are very customizeable for the individual shooting style. I like the battery capacity and dual controls on the 1D for vertical shooting. I have a place at the beach, and shoot in some pretty crappy weather. I think the extra weather sealing would be nice. From what I've read, it sounds like the low light performance of the 1D is superior, though I know the 50D is supposed to be a big improvement over the 40D.

If a battery grip is added to the 50d I belive it becomes similar in size and heft to the 1D, without the solidity.

What do you think?

ian408

1d.

PixNW

jan, I really apprecaite your help, questions and advice. I don't regret the investments I've made in L lenses, and I doubt I'll regret spending a bit more to get a really good body. It seems that the 1's hold their value well. If/when the next model comes out I'll be able to see a MK III for a fair price if I decide the upgrade is worthwhile. It sounds like with Genuine Fractals that the 10.1mp shouldn't limit my realistic images sizes though.

Now, the refurb unit, or brand new?

kdog

PixNW wrote:

From what I've read, for action shooting the 1D's AF is in a class by themselves,

Are you aware that the 1D MkIII's AF system has been reported to not perform as well as previous 1D models? Link: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068

ian408

PixNW wrote:

jan

It's Ian

PixNW wrote:

Now, the refurb unit, or brand new?

I can't answer that for you. Only you can. You have all of the pros and cons and you've identified your requirements.

All that's left is to decide

PixNW

ian408 wrote:

It's Ian


I can't answer that for you. Only you can. You have all of the pros and cons and you've identified your requirements.

All that's left is to decide

Sorry Ian!

Kdog, I've read galbraiths site, and the newest posts. It seems to come down to it primarily being the AF on the early bodies that fell within a specific range of serial numbers. I think that Galbraith was mostly pretty positive on the camera. Did I miss something somewhere?

ian408

PixNW wrote:

Sorry Ian!

No problem. Although it's a more common name these days, there was a time when someone that yelled "Ian" was definitely yelling at me

Regarding Rob's article, I do think that's worth a read. I own a mkIII in the affected range and I can tell you that the sub mirror fix and the various firmware upgrades have gone a long way toward fixing the camera. That and the extra year of of warranty have me a believer.

PixNW

Thanks Ian. I just reread his site, and I must admit that I hadn't seen the August updates before. It sounds like he is saying that it still has issues on moving subjects, but has gotten better on static subjects. I'm somewhat concerned about bright sun and heat effecting the camera in a negative way as I live in a desert area. I plan to use the camera for most of my landscape and travel stuff as well, and need something that will perform reasonably well in the heat and sun.

Does your camera have a newer firmware update than what he wrote about on his site? He said that it would get to a point where Canon would be done, and would quit trying to fix it, and just come out with an updated model.

Have you experienced the front focusing problems with the latest firmware update and everything on your camera?

Maybe I'll consider a 50D and wait and see what Canon does to fix it, or what they come out with for a new model.

ian408

I'm pretty happy with the focus. I haven't done any tests recently but birds in flight and surf shots have a much higher keeper rate with respect to focus.

Where it still fails is strong back light situations.

PixNW

Thanks Ian. In backlit situations, what percentage of shots are OOF? Looking at the galgraith examples it looked like it was usually two out of 6 or so on faster moving subjects. Has that been your experience?

I'm not going to be shooting too much sports stuff until next fall. I have some landscape stuff I want to get to though. I wonder if I should pick up a 50D or a 5D, and hope that Canon has a new model out by next fall?

Have you done much landscape stuff with your Mk III? It sounds like it still has some focus issues on static subjects, at least in AI Servo mode. Galbraith didn't do much testing in one shot mode, but it sounds like he wasn't very happy with it when he did.

ian408

I shoot landscapes too. Not so much a problem as your subject usually isn't moving

As for backlit subjects. The answer isn't many--I would likely do that more in a landscape than sports.

PixNW

Galbraith made it sound like he had focus issues even on stationary subjects, like kids setting in a classroom.

If you had to guess, when do you think Canon will release the next model?

jbakerphoto

Thought I would chime in about Adarama. I bought a USED sigma 70-200 2.8 about a month ago from them and so far so good. I got it for 575 which is pretty decent for that lense. The only thing that was not described was that it did not come with a lense cap....I am not sure why they couldnt put a 3 dollor lense cap in there but hey what ever.....I do get some ooooff shots with it but that might just be me....Probaly to be expected with a rebel xt shooting friday night football.

Overall a pretty good experience (other then haveing to sell my Canon 70-200 F4 L... : ( ...)

ian408

I have no idea when that might happen.

PixNW

Thanks unclejon. It'c cool to know that you mostly got what you expected.

I know where there is a low use, like new Mark III that had the Canon mirror replacement and update in February last year, and has warranty until Feb. 2009 now. I can get it for $2,950, but would probably tend to trust Adorama more, and they do have a return policy.

There seems to be some varying opinons about whether there is a different between earlier bodies and the later ones that came with the updated mirror mechanism. I would assume that if I order from B&H that I'd get a recent body with the latest firmware.

I'm just not sure if I should maybe wait for the next model. After all of the talk about the focus issues, I would think they're going to have to try to hit it out of the ballpark with the next one. Maybe I'll pick up a 40D for now and see what comes down the pike. I was really getting jazzed about a Mark III, and will probably continue to read everything I can find online tonight and see how I feel in the morning.

PixNW

I think I'm going to order a new 50D from B&H in the morning. It's only $400 more than a 40D, and from what I've read, it's worth the extra money.

I'll wait and see what Canon comes out with to replace the Mark III, or if they come up with a final fix that seems to address all of the autofocus issues.

Thanks for all of the help. Sorry I waffled back and forth so much.

rpcrowe

90 days
Canon warranties their factory refurbished items for 90 days (which will give you a chance to wring out the camera). Their service centers will work on any refurb item within that 90 day period free of charge, if needed.

You can purchase an additional MACK 3-year warranty if you so desire.

I purchased two new DSLR cameras (10D and 350D) and needed to send each back for factory service within the first 90 days. I purchased a refurb 30D and have been using it for 18 months without a problem.

Based on my experience, I tend to trust the Q.C at the Canon Service Center over that of the Canon Assembly Line. But, then again; I purchased a new 40D and have had no problems...

Close to a thousand bucks is quite a reduction...