Margaret's First Shoot - 25y/o Blonde

jhelms · November 5, 2008

In an effort to become better at posing and positioning I have been doing a lot of research and wanted to try and put some knowledge into action.

This past weekend I met with a friend at their house for a few hallway silhouette shots, then we went downtown to catch some of the light at the end of the day. Margaret was awesome to work with, very patient and she looked fantastic! We are already planning some poses and locations for our next shoot.

C&C welcomed - this was my first 'real' try at choosing locations and directing the poses, so I know I have lots of room to improve.

Here's the link to the entire gallery (more pics will be uploaded in the next day or two as I finish going through the last 5-10 poses):
http://jhelms.smugmug.com/gallery/6450920_4znrQ

Oh, and as far as post-processing goes, I used the free version of Google's Picasa (3 beta) but have ordered PSE7... (any hints on the 'extra' customizing that PSE7 will give me on these would be appreciated).

1) She was up against the wall on this shot but I just rotated it to look like she was laying down (we are going to exaggerate these shadow poses next time to show off her curves more)

2) This one reminds me of Charlie's Angels for some reason

3) I applied a little selective soft focus in Picasa - too much or ok?

4) Here's a little "before and after" using the retouch feature in Picasa (removed the light, lens flare, and oil stains)

5) I like this one but the lighting was a little splotchy

Here's a quick example of the setup - I was using a D200 with 18-200VR lens, wireless control of an SB600 flash that was on a mini-tripod with a stofen diffuser. Some shots the flash was held and 'pointed':

I have some more from the fountains and railroad tracks to upload, will get those finished this week. For our next shoot we are going to tweak the poses, experiment with different lenses and lighting.

Bkodger · November 5, 2008

Cool shots. I really like the silhouette shots shots, but don't know how to do those. Would you mind explaining the setup to do such a shot?

I use Picasa for photo organizing, but never have used it for editing since I use Photoshop CS. I didn't realize that program had touch up features like the one's you have shown...nice job.

dogwood · November 5, 2008

Raise your flash! You want a nice shadow slightly angled below and to the side of the nose (least for what you're trying to accomplish here)-- not just off to the side.

Also, I've never understood why people use those sto-fen bounce devices outdoors. They're not diffusers (at least outdoors)-- they just make your flash work harder. They're designed for indoor locations where they'll bounce light off the walls and ceiling and the floor, effectively giving you a larger, diffuse light source. Outdoors, they're still pumping light all around (rather than just straight ahead) but there's nothing for that light to bounce off of, so you're still just getting a light source the exact same size as a bare flash head. Yes, not as much light gets through it, but don't confuse that for diffusion. In order for a proper exposure, you'll still have to pump MORE light out of the flash.

If you're trying to diffuse the light, use something that will actually do that-- such as a softbox or umbrella. Think about it for a second-- to most effectively diffuse light, you want to create a larger surface area for the light so that it effectively becomes a larger (and more diffuse) light source (kind of like the sun on a cloudy day). And used outdoors, a sto fen (or whatever brand you have) isn't doing that at all.

Also-- I'm personally not crazy about trying to fix photos using blur and all that in post. Why not use a wide open aperture and a longer lens? It will save you work and will look much better and more natural.

Nikolai · November 5, 2008

dogwood wrote:

Raise your flash! You want a nice shadow slightly angled below and to the side of the nose (least for what you're trying to accomplish here)-- not just off to the side.

Also, I've never understood why people use those sto-fen bounce devices outdoors. They're not diffusers (at least outdoors)-- they just make your flash work harder. They're designed for indoor locations where they'll bounce light off the walls and ceiling and the floor, effectively giving you a larger, diffuse light source. Outdoors, they're still pumping light all around (rather than just straight ahead) but there's nothing for that light to bounce off of, so you're still just getting a light source the exact same size as a bare flash head. Yes, not as much light gets through it, but don't confuse that for diffusion. In order for a proper exposure, you'll still have to pump MORE light out of the flash.

If you're trying to diffuse the light, use something that will actually do that-- such as a softbox or umbrella. Think about it for a second-- to most effectively diffuse light, you want to create a larger surface area for the light so that it effectively becomes a larger (and more diffuse) light source (kind of like the sun on a cloudy day). And used outdoors, a sto fen (or whatever brand you have) isn't doing that at all.

Also-- I'm personally not crazy about trying to fix photos using blur and all that in post. Why not use a wide open aperture and a longer lens? It will save you work and will look much better and more natural.

on all accounts

zoomer · November 6, 2008

My favorite is the first one.
The lighting would be greatly improved by a softbox and a higher angle.
Not really that bad just kind of harsh. Much better than standard on camera flash.....
Pretty model, looks like a fun shoot.

jhelms · November 6, 2008

Fad2blk wrote:

Cool shots. I really like the silhouette shots shots, but don't know how to do those. Would you mind explaining the setup to do such a shot?

I use Picasa for photo organizing, but never have used it for editing since I use Photoshop CS. I didn't realize that program had touch up features like the one's you have shown...nice job.

Thanks! On those shots, we used a hallway in their house. Closed all the doors on 'my' end of the hall but allowed light to come in down past her end of the hall. The light was behind her, and I took a few test shots to check exposure and then fired away.

Her back is to the wall on all of those, the first one I just rotated it to make it look like she's laying down. All the exif data is available in the gallery.

dogwood wrote:

Raise your flash! You want a nice shadow slightly angled below and to the side of the nose (least for what you're trying to accomplish here)-- not just off to the side.

Cool - good point, will definitely do that next time.

dogwood wrote:

Also, I've never understood why people use those sto-fen bounce devices outdoors. They're not diffusers (at least outdoors)-- they just make your flash work harder. They're designed for indoor locations where they'll bounce light off the walls and ceiling and the floor, effectively giving you a larger, diffuse light source. Outdoors, they're still pumping light all around (rather than just straight ahead) but there's nothing for that light to bounce off of, so you're still just getting a light source the exact same size as a bare flash head. Yes, not as much light gets through it, but don't confuse that for diffusion. In order for a proper exposure, you'll still have to pump MORE light out of the flash.

I've wondered about that and never used it outside until a week or so ago, I took a class on outdoor portraits and the instructor said he never takes his stofen off, and it would soften the light outdoors.

I guess I could do some back to back tests but I was thinking (before that class) that bare flash outside would be best.

dogwood wrote:

If you're trying to diffuse the light, use something that will actually do that-- such as a softbox or umbrella. Think about it for a second-- to most effectively diffuse light, you want to create a larger surface area for the light so that it effectively becomes a larger (and more diffuse) light source (kind of like the sun on a cloudy day). And used outdoors, a sto fen (or whatever brand you have) isn't doing that at all.

I have a www.honlphoto.com reflector that velcro's onto the flash head, would that work? (I use it similarly to a Lumiquest pocket bouncer).

dogwood wrote:

Also-- I'm personally not crazy about trying to fix photos using blur and all that in post. Why not use a wide open aperture and a longer lens? It will save you work and will look much better and more natural.

Again, very good comments - and I agree. This was my first try at doing any soft focus in post. Next time I'll be using faster glass at wide open (I have them, just didn't do too much swapping during this shoot).

Nikolai wrote:

on all accounts

Nikolai - I LOVE checking out your photo shoots, thanks for the reply!

zoomer wrote:

My favorite is the first one.
The lighting would be greatly improved by a softbox and a higher angle.
Not really that bad just kind of harsh. Much better than standard on camera flash.....
Pretty model, looks like a fun shoot.

Cool, thanks - will definitely put those items into practice for the next shoot. I have a brief opportunity this afternoon and then will be getting back with this model in a week or two.

Two of the things I'm really hoping to do in PSE7 are 1) bring detail out in the eyes, I really want them to POP! 2) bump up the punchiness of the colors a little bit through some luminence / saturation - I've hesitated to do that kind of edit in Picasa because I think it's a little rough around the edges.

Are those two things something that would help these pics if done correctly in PSE7?

Nikolai · November 6, 2008

BTW, you simply gotta post your last "setup on the train tracks" shot in the "photos on the train tracks" thread:-)

jhelms · November 6, 2008

Nikolai wrote:

BTW, you simply gotta post your last "setup on the train tracks" shot in the "photos on the train tracks" thread:-)

Oh yeah! Will do! They'll REALLY be mad when they find out that this particular section of track is a bridge and we were balancing ~20+ feet up... :ivar

Here's my post over there: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=958874#post958874

dogwood · November 6, 2008

jhelms wrote:

I have a www.honlphoto.com reflector that velcro's onto the flash head, would that work? (I use it similarly to a Lumiquest pocket bouncer).

Sure, this would work. But remember, you want to both diffuse the light and maximize the power of your flash. I think the Holn reflector is more useful as a flag than a diffuser, but it could work.

Don't get too hung up on different brand name products. There are a lot of DIY projects that are cheap and work great.

My personal fav for hotshoe strobes right now is a DIY beauty dish. I modified mine so it mounts on a spare bracket that I had rather than the flash head.

Another easy, and cheap option (if you have an assistant) is just to bounce the flash off a reflector.

zoomer · November 6, 2008

Don't worry about doing more processing on these, with better lighting they would have been fine.

Using soft focus after the shot to isolate your subject is fine. Everybody has an opinion on post processing, take everyones opinion into account and then do what looks good do you. It is a good tool for isolating your subject....having said that using a large aperture (2.8) is a better way to do it and moving your subject away from the background helps or using more of a telephoto lens.

These photos have pop to them already. Try to resist fooling with the eyes, it is not much of a journey to get from looking good to looking freaky.

Get a portable softbox to use with your flash setup hold it nice and close and your lighting will be where you want it. Remember to hold it above to simulate the sun shining down to creat some shadow from the nose to create depth in the face.

You are well on your way with these shots.

dogwood · November 6, 2008

zoomer wrote:

Using soft focus after the shot to isolate your subject is fine. Everybody has an opinion on post processing, take everyones opinion into account and then do what looks good do you.

Well everybody DOES have an opinion -- but how many of us would rather spend time working on an image in post when we could have gotten it right during the shoot?

Just my two cents, but all too often there's a tendancy to say, "Oh, I'll just fix that in Photoshop" instead of getting it right in camera. Maybe it's because I learned to shoot with film or because I shoot a lot of news photos or maybe it's because I already spend hours and hours everyday working in Photoshop, but I think it's a poor use of time to correct/fix/alter images after shooting them when you can do the same thing in camera.

And yes, I actually carry and use a ND grad filter for landscapes, even though it's possible to accomplish the same thing in post. I just find all too often there's not enough time to fix or process everything after a shoot.

But again, that's just my opinion.

jhelms · November 7, 2008

dogwood wrote:

Well everybody DOES have an opinion -- but how many of us would rather spend time working on an image in post when we could have gotten it right during the shoot?

Just my two cents, but all too often there's a tendancy to say, "Oh, I'll just fix that in Photoshop" instead of getting it right in camera.

But again, that's just my opinion.

I agree - which is one of the main reasons I've waited so long to buy PS. I've been taking a few thousand pics a month for a little over 2 years now and the extent of my processing has been very minor stuff (crops, really slight contrast correction, etc.) in google's free picasa.

Being new to photography, I really wanted to learn it the right way. I bought different filters, bought accessories and lenses carefully, and still don't shoot in raw.

However, I just ordered PSE7 and plan on using it very carefully to juice up certain pics here and there...

Margaret's First Shoot - 25y/o Blonde

Comments