formal/family groupings thread
urbanaries
Registered Users Posts: 2,690 Major grins
Rarely do we include these in our portfolios, or post them here for critique. So I don't think I've gotten much better at these than when I first started.
But since these are an important part of what we do on a wedding day, I am hoping to get better at composing these, especially at the altar. Wanted to see if you guys would be willing to share some of your successes (or failures!)
A few random questions...what is the acceptable way to pose men vs. with regard to feet and hands? Some condemn the 'fig leaf' others condemn hands in pockets, yet hands behind backs looks so unnatural and stiff...?
What about relationship visually to others? These are most difficult with men, because you don't have to worry about making women look affectionate and feminine. Say, a groom and one groomsman?
Also, how do you guys typically light indoor family groupings?
I guess I'll post a couple for whipping to get the ball rolling.
1.
2.
3.
4.
But since these are an important part of what we do on a wedding day, I am hoping to get better at composing these, especially at the altar. Wanted to see if you guys would be willing to share some of your successes (or failures!)
A few random questions...what is the acceptable way to pose men vs. with regard to feet and hands? Some condemn the 'fig leaf' others condemn hands in pockets, yet hands behind backs looks so unnatural and stiff...?
What about relationship visually to others? These are most difficult with men, because you don't have to worry about making women look affectionate and feminine. Say, a groom and one groomsman?
Also, how do you guys typically light indoor family groupings?
I guess I'll post a couple for whipping to get the ball rolling.
1.
2.
3.
4.
Canon 5D MkI
50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 24-70 2.8L, 35mm 1.4L, 135mm f2L
ST-E2 Transmitter + (3) 580 EXII + radio poppers
50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 24-70 2.8L, 35mm 1.4L, 135mm f2L
ST-E2 Transmitter + (3) 580 EXII + radio poppers
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Comments
#1: Love it love it love it....those colors are.....jackin my slacks...great pose, clarity...beautifully done. Now, the lighting...even though it is lit pretty well (and very pretty BTW), setting up a different lighting pattern would help with the shadowing on the right (the groom and dad). By using 2 umbrellas or softboxes, up higher and crossing light throw (hence, don't put the stobes too far apart from one another), you can eliminate those areas for even lighting. I always take my AB's with for the formals and set stuff up ahead of time, meter then when people are ready, all I have to do is pose and shoot. Often times will use an AB40, barebulb with reflector and throw some light into the background from one side or the other....just to even things out...say for instance shooting them with the key lights at f/8 then the bg light may be at f/4. This first shot Lynne, looks like you had one key light camera left as the shadow falls deep to subject right. One more light to camera right would have smoothed out the transition for you.
Posing men, for formals regarding feet....I like to think "naturally" and sometimes that relaxed look might be a bit "athletic" by nature. It is difficult to put into a venacular but essentially I like to have a bit of space between the men for a couple reasons (unless it's a gigantic group): They don't tend to feel smooshed, which makes them pose uneasy. It allows the light to fill them top to bottom. They also have room to rest their hands. I'm always looking at the overall stance, and the relaxation of hands (which will transend to the shoulders BTW). Hands behind the back work..but not so for mixed formals...works great for other type shots such as all guys with the same pose sort of thing.
Also, typically will use a small step ladder and get up a bit....as you did here. I try not to get too high as being above the eyeballs can look...well, too high. Many formals are centered in general but try to do some posing changes that distracts from the centeredness if that makes sense. Depending on the setting, especially if it's a beautiful church, I'll take some "environmental" type formals as well as 1/2 body and head shots. This way there are lots to choose from with each posing cycle.
#2: Very nice...they'll love it.
#3: Yep, nice again. Were their suits blue? the bottom half of frame is bluish (see pavement and especiallly parking line)....I only mention this Lynne as the upper 2/3rd's of the photo look color balanced..so it kind of drew my eye to a mix match is all.
#4: Nice group portrait. Facey's blown a bit with bg. Maybe paint in less exposure in LR?....just a thought.....anyway...you know what the heck you're doing, so don't mind the guy behind the curtain.
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It's always nice to hear I've jacked your slacks but somehow...it sounds like your wife might not approve
The shots I posted, I am not crazy about. In 2 the posture looks awful, the younger guy is her brother, not her groom, I never know what to tell them to do to show they are related but not "an item." In 3,the groom is the 4th from the left, but the way I've posed them, it looks like the tall guy is the groom doesn't it? I hate even numbers
Re 4Do you ever worry about all the distracting elements on the altar behind the groups? Like bibles and candles growing out of heads, etc?
I am curious to see where you set your lights up (in front of the first pew, between pews, etc?) Do you use STE2 to fire? I sometimes have issues with line of sight. (Radio poppers are in my future, methinks).
I don't know enough about lighting to consistently avoid cross shadows, and that's why I've tried to avoid cross lighting.
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This is more of a "traditional" formal by example:
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I like to put Best Man next to Groom in most shots. Sometimes I will do it by height. I try to vary each pose as far as the hands go, maybe start hand over wrist, hands by side, hands in pocket etc... It's a fast transition to have them move just there hands anyways. I find a lot of times the guys are actually not to afraid to be touchy feeley with each and that makes for some great laid back shots. I usually just see how they interact with each other and go from there. It definitely depends on the people, I have been fortunate and mostly shot weddings for really laid back couples.
#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6-Terrible lighting in this shot I know and I hate the chair on the left of the picture, but love the guys pose.
The groom is the second one in from the right here.
At first I did shortest to tallest, well to make sure I didn't miss anyones face...but that put the groom at the back?
But, I don't know if I really like this line up with the groom up front!?
Different wedding party here, but this set up was really fun.
I'm a sucker for a good shoe shot...I can't wear the damn things to save my life, but can appreciate a good looking shoe design!
Yes, they were teasing him about shovin him off!
As far as distinguishing the who's who of in the pictures...I've been able to rely on the brides for arranging that the grooms men and groom have one small distinguishable feature about their "costume":D that is different. either shirt or tie or vest color, just something that show's he's the special one!!!
My current beef is...what do you do about a maid of honor who can't seem to be happy enough for her best friends special day to crack one smile?
Here's one outside....this was flash on board set w/wide angle diffuser: (forgive the color) this was processed on another monitor before calibration...eeek
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Love the shots!
However, #7 seems very odd. Why was she not w/ her placed in front of her new husband? Brother maybe? The composition of your images is great....this one though seems a tad strange to me, considering right away you can spot the groom b/c of the clothes, obviously....so to see her standing between the legs of a groomsmen kind of "weirds me out".
That's why I love this place...it never occurred to me that the pose was weird....but I can see how it would be!! This shot was not actually set up by me, I was taking shots of the boys on the fence, when the bride decided to jump in their shot, it was very impromptu. They are all just a very close bunch of friends, and it wasn't meant to mean anything weird or strange, but I can definitely see your point as someone not at the shoot!
Thanks for the lovely compliments as well!
The kid looks he was the life of the party, and the only one happy to be there:D
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Heh.....in a way....that may have been the truth...
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oooh, really like the posing in this one !! Thanks for sharing!
What's everyone's opinions on the "hands in the pockets?" I really like it but am never sure whether to tell them to button/unbutton. When they button, there is always this sliver of vest that peeks out. I wonder if open would make more sense, obviously carrying through the casual approach.
The "peeking" is pretty minimal here, picturegirl, esp with the groom, I find those white/ivory vests are the worst offenders!
Just a random thought...the scene is really feminine while the guys stance, expression is fairly masculine. I've found parking lots and building walls to be great for these sort of groupings.
that may sound nitpicky but I'm really liking the posing in this shot, and looked at it a while! don't mind me
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hi! Thanks for commenting, it's always nice to have a second opinion! I agree the flowers are a little girly, it was such a crazy day. It rained all day and was almost called off due to the grooms mom being in the hospital the day of the wedding. Of coarse every weddng has a story right!?!?! We were not given much time to do formals but I think I did ok with the minimul time given. With so little time you kind of zone out on the little details. This wedding actually took place in the country in someones yard so unfortunaley no buildings or anything like that.
I think hands in pocket work most of the time. I do some with hands in pocket, arms crossed, hands over wrist, I like to change it up. The guys can stand in the same position never moving anything but there arms and hands and it really gives the shot a different look. I wonder myself how it would have looked if the jackets were unbottoned???
My random thoughts:
To the original poster:
This may be a man/woman barrier but I have a lot easier time posing men than women.
#1 Being a man, I'm not afraid to touch. I can push, pull and even shove them into place (even though I try to avoid it when I can). I rarely touch a woman while posing her.
#2 I just feel like I have a much greater latitude on what I can say. Saying "Groomsman #2, The sooner you get that stupid look off your face the sooner we get to drink beer!" Works. Not to be a sexist but it just seems a fact of life to me that saying this to the brides side just runs too high a risk of the bride construing this comment as "a non professional who wanted to rush the job" or even worse a bridesmaid or mother thinking the same and putting that idea in the brides mind.
What I'm getting at with all this is that being a woman, believe it or not, you have even more latitude than a man when it comes to posing men. Order them around, say crazy stuff, try hands in all different spots, etc.
A couple posing things....I know weddings are bang, bang but just some small things that maybe a wedding photographer doesn't have time to correct.
We were always taught. If your hands are in your pockets, the jacket better be unbuttoned. Hands out of pockets, either way is fine, depending upon what you're trying to convey.
In the photo with the groomsmen in the fence, when they sat like that, the next thing out of my mouth would have been. Groom you need to be in the middle. Two groomsmen on my right, your left, need to swap places. Groomsmen who is now in the middle you need to be on your far right, my far left. Break! And clapped my hands. This would have created an inverted pyramid (by height) and placed the star of the show in the center of the photo.
In the photo with the groomsmen and groom standing on the stairway ledge. No way, no how, would I be putting that groom in the back if I was selling those photos. The bride doesn't care what his ugly friend Larry looks like and she is driving the bus. Groom in front. Especially in this case. That slope gives you the advantage of totally eliminating height. Even though, the groom is the tallest you just move him further forward or move groomsmen #2 further back (increase the distance between man 1 and man 2) and it will create the illusion that they are all equal heighth by how much distance you put between each man.
Same deal with groomsmen all sitting on the ledge. Put the groom closest to the camera, this would also help with the fact that he has the longest legs and give you better chance that his feet would be able to sit flush on the ground. As it was photographed, the closest guy has dangling feet and it looks awkard. I would have them all slide left to make sure their feet were flush with the ground.
The photo with 5 groomsmen near the trestle. Nice pose but I would have moved groom and groomsman to his right and back both to the left and told groomsman immediately to the grooms left to take one step forward and right.
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My new thing is to have the groom run at the groomsmen and jump in the air and they catch him, sort of like a high jump approach...kind of a variation of the groomsmen holding the bride up horizontal in their arms.
At first they say....Really!!...you want us to catch him???
Then after they do it a few times they realize taking pictures isn't going to be so bad after all and then we start having fun and the photos just roll out.
Of course all wedding parties are not physically up to this and some folks aren't playful enough.
But when it works it works...
I will try to find time to post a couple....
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I have ideas, and then spout them out, and when I look at the original idea I have, and it doesn't work, I take pictures and then try to tweak it as I go. I am afraid that comes across as wishy washy and not very directional. How do you folks do this, without coming across as someone who doesn't know what they are doing!!! But I feel that if I didn't capture the original set up they may see it as a waste of time....thoughts?
1. I always try to mix it up. For example, sometimes I'll shout out "I'm an idiot, I cut Frank's head off, we need to do this again." However, do this too many times and they WILL begin to think you're an idiot, however, done a few times with charisma and jest it actually works in your favor because they recognize you as human which helps break down the pro/client relationship and also endears them to you and they are more likely in the future to follow your orders or try your silly poses.
To mix it up the next time, I might say "Hmmm...that is good but I really want to get some images you're going to LOVE so let's try this...." Of course, I would more likely use this line in front of anyone standing nearby who might be eventually carrying the checkbook or driving the bus (bride or her parents in your case). They don't have to know that that line translates to "Damn! What was I thinking..."
2. Build a team. In a group protrait I'm always looking for 2 things, a leader and a leader who is willing to work with me. I want both. They don't have to be paying your rent they just have to be respected or liked by the group and willing to try your stuff. In family portraits sometimes that can be Mom and sometimes believe it or not that can be 10 year old Joey.
O.k. so the pyramid shot with an 80 year old Grandma was a bad idea...but you say "Joey, was that fun?" "Yeah! It was geat let's do it again!" Everyone laughs, because they love Joey, you reply "Nah, I think we just about killed Grandma and we don't want to do that.." Everyone laughs and now Joey is your buddy and your dumb*** idea is quickly forgotten.
Basic pyscology (sp?) stuff. Some people are lucky and it comes totally natural to them, others like myself need to think about it and practice it bit but it's really not that hard.
Subscribe to Joe McNally's blog or search out videos of him shooting. He is a Master of "client/model" speak. He is also not one bit afraid to say out loud in front of his clients "This isn't working and I want GREAT images so we're going to try this! I have no idea if it'll be better but at least we tried, Right?"
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Don't do any of this...unless they want doucheyness...this represents all forms of douche.
the fish can be fun.
Resevoir dogs diagonal across the street? Sign a waiver.
Ok so those aren't so formal.
I could pick that apart 7 ways from Sunday...but it is what it is.
God it gets worse...Fonzie would say "Hey!"
Better....but still...Ok dudes look like tools posed...no matter how handsome, but from the reactions I get from brides and moms to these shots...someone must like them.
Caroline
Hands in pockets - sometimes, but only one. If the hand is in the pocket, the jacket is open and tucked behind the arm. Or, the jacket is over the other shoulder.
Lighting the indoor portraits - I try to use a pair of Sunpak 622 strobes behind shoot through umbrellas. Don't always get the time, but I try - they just look so much better when I can....
Anyway, here are a few that I kinda like
1. I'm not saying this is the way it should be done, but it is different
2. A little different and a little humor injected into the photo
3. That's the best man on the left, the groom in the center.
And, here are a few that I don't really like....
4. This is what the groom (center guy) wanted and I couldn't talk him out of it, so ....
5.
6. This one is so symetrical that it's static - no dynamics or tension at all
As for portraying the relationship between men - sometimes they are more into it than others. I just push a little and if I get pushback, well, "it is what it is". But I try to get guys to show how they feel about each other - cause the photos is so much better when the guys are relaxed about it. Sometims works, sometimes it doesn't.
7. This has got to be one of the worst ones ever - father and son (groom). Look at all the space between them
8. On the other hand, you can get a group like this ... (granted not so formal...). These kids, all of them, grew up together. The MoB and FoB where surrogate parents to this whole group - the kids spent more time with the bride's home than they did at their own.
9.
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Great work Scott!
You are working on a calibrated monitor right? A couple of these look a touch (just a touch) hot on my calibrated monitor. I really like that first solution to having a lot of kids in a shot, I think it is a great shot so long as it makes sense to them (ie all the family groups are together). I don't like the blue shirt guy in the back peeking over the dude in the tux's shoulder, and it would be nice to see B&G together in the middle but all in all good work on the large group.
The shot on the seawall with the couples spread is awesome, great example of the control being in the position not in posing the individual groups.
The wide shot of the boys with the military groom is a good idea, but the distance illusion of the best man behind the groom makes him look like he is humping the grooms leg.
Great work on that last one knowing to get back enough to get the girls' reactions.
BTW I do the hand shake think too between father and son...but I shoot it closer up and usually process it B&W.
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Nothing wrong with symetry in a posed group shot. Clients like that stuff.
Really like the fun shots at the end with the guys in the red shirts.
Don't you wish all your weddings could be of fun groups like that!!!
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1Getting organized
2the pose
3
4This church was a dungeon I think this was a full power bounce flash aimed up.
5These guys were fun
6
7
8symmetry?
9This ones not posed
10this is a group shot right?
11what do you do when you have an old car,guns and cigars laying around.
12Hands behind the back
13Can you see the group?
14sometimes you cant help the one person doing something a little different. I like it though
Sorry I think I posted too many. I think the best photos come from the people that are happy to be there, and from brides that aren't worried about being 10 mins late to the reception.
As far as what to do with your hands, I think every group of guys looks just a little bit different I usually let them pick what to do with them and stick with that unless it looks horrible.
What about coats buttoned or un buttoned now thats the question.
As far as lighting im pretty low tech right now just a diffused 550 or 430 with either a lightsphere or a strobist.
#6 NU Hotness...that is all. How old is that guy? 13?
Glad you liked them! 13, the one with the tree is a crop from the original. I wanted to keep the aspect ratio and I really like the leaves on the grass in front of them. I like to include the surroundings as much as possible. as I was taking that photo there were all like "are you still taking pictures of us??" "It doesnt look like the camera is even pointed at me" thank God for 10mm!
Yeah thats the "boy band" shot. I'm pretty sure he's 23.
I love these shots, I'm going to be shooting my first wedding soon and I love how you composed the group shots especially 7, 9, 10, and 14. Thanks for posting, they give me some great ideas about what can be done other than the typical "tall in the back, short in the front" stuffy posed look!