Wedding Photography For The Beginner

crockett · November 13, 2008

I need some advice.....

Well, it finally happened, I knew it would. About 2-3 month ago, I started the whole "shoot for income" thing. It's been slow going but the good news is what I have done, I'm satisfied with, my clients are very satisfied with and I've managed to price myself so I'm not working for dirt.

I have been purposely avoiding wedding photography. I don't advertise on my website, I don't mention it to any potential client contacts, etc. I've received a few "cold calls" and just passed them on to a fellow wedding photographer that I trust. However, recently someone my wife works with approached her about using me as a photographer in her upcoming wedding. The potential client brought a unique approach.

#1 She has done her own sons Senior Pictures and also did a friends Senior Pictures. Take that for whatever it's worth, I haven't seen her work either. However, my wife says her office pictures are very nice and definately stand out. Much like the images on my wifes desk.

But again none of these are professional work, just above average family stuff.

#2 She wants to save money. She hasn't presented the entire idea but my guess (from a few comments she made to wife) is that she'll be just asking for my time and creativity. i.e. Turn the images over to her, she'll process, build the book etc.

This is a long ways off and I have some time to prep. Here is a brief "To Do" list I've organized.

#1 Second camera body. I only have one and would probably rent here and use it strictly as a backup (insurance). I've never shot two bodies and adding that complexity to my first wedding probably wouldn't be ideal.

#2. Develop a "must shoot" check list. Anyone know an online resource for such a thing. i.e. formals, ring shots, entering the wedding, leaving the wedding, etc. This is definately a weak point for me. I usually attend a wedding, eat and drink. I'm totally oblivious to what is happening around me and don't even know the basic steps.

#3 Develop a "Top Ten Things you Should Do on Your First Wedding Shoot List". Here is your moment to shine! Even if it's been referenced before, post it here! This thread can be referenced by others later.

#4 A couple pluses...Other than just one camera body, I'm pretty good on equip. Lots 'o batteries, two solid flashes, solid primes, 2 tele's both long and short., stands, umbrellas and even a couple mono lights if she wants to go that route for bridal dress shots. I will also likely have an uneducated assistant (my 16 year old daughter) who has been assisting me on Senior Picture and Family Portrait shoots.

#5 Pricing....:scratch I don't even know if I should mention it, because it can be such a regional thing, but I was thinking somewhere in the ball park of $150-200 per hour. The low end if she just wants the RAW images with print rights, the high end if she wants me to process "X" number of images. (??? I don't know what that number is). She'll handle all the materials (books, etc.). This gets her away from the $3000-$5000 dollar wedding photogs and still makes it worth my while.

Am I crazy here? Way off either way? Stupid, be blunt. . .I have very broad shoulders.

Finally,

Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. I have months to prep for this and I want to get it right.

Swartzy · November 14, 2008

I typed a looooooong response...read and re-read....then deleted..

. Let me simply say it candidly. I personally do not believe anyone should shoot one of the most important events of an individual's lifetime without prior experience. It would be better to learn the in's and out's working with a professional. Taking on such a task alone, especially without a 2nd shooter and having never done this yourself would be (and this word might sound too extreme), criminal. The reason I say this is because, despite what the bride "intends" to do and looking for the Craig's list cheapo route, she'll get what she pays for. After the money is spent on food, flowers, arrangements, clothing, etc., the only thing that remains of that day are photographs. There is a reason the cost is between 3-5K and I would certainly persuade her to think about spending a bit more money for insured good quality photographs.

This has nothing to do with your ability nor talent. It's about understanding wedding photography is much much more than showing up and taking pictures....it is an "event". The planning on the photographer's part behind the scenes will make or break stellar images, satisfied client and overall referrals, not to mention reputation. The correspondence between B&G long before ceremony day is only the tip of the iceberg. I don't want to sound discouraging but do wish to bring in a reality check. Too often (now more than ever), a bride wants to save money, hires someone for $500.00 then all heck breaks loose. Everybody has a camera these days so they think someone could just show up and snap away. The adage, you get what you pay for....and worse is applicable in this situation.

Qarik · November 14, 2008

I have to disagree here. As long as both parties are in full disclosure and know what they are getting into .. I mean sit down and talk about the risks, benefits, experience levels, expectations, and there is good faith on both sides...I don't see anything wrong with it. Not every couple needs/wants that $3-5k pro deal.

Also we all have to start from somewhere.

sweet caroline · November 14, 2008

Qarik wrote:

I have to disagree here. As long as both parties are in full disclosure and know what they are getting into .. I mean sit down and talk about the risks, benefits, experience levels, expectations, and there is good faith on both sides...I don't see anything wrong with it. Not every couple needs/wants that $3-5k pro deal.

Also we all have to start from somewhere.

I agree that everyone has to start somewhere. If the potential client has seen samples of your work and likes it, and knows that you've never shot a wedding before, it's their choice to take that risk.

I'm glad people have decided to take a chance on me, and I've learned so much because of it. Maybe I'm lucky my clients ended up pleased with the results.

Caroline

Scott_Quier · November 14, 2008

First, read my thought on wedding photography (see link below in my siggy).

Second, I have to agree with Swartzy more than I don't. A wedding is a big deal and the bride will most likely come to lament her choice of wanting to cut corners on the photography.

Like Swartzy said, this is not a slam on you as a photographer. More, it's a reality check - you've not done one before and doing a wedding is like nothing else. You have to get the shots and get them right the first time. There is no do-overs, especially the ceremony. You have to KNOW what is going to happen, when, and in what order - without even thinking about it. And, don't rely on the rehearsal to show you the way. I have never seen a wedding go off as planned - usually the rehearsal has very little in common with the actual ceremony.

But seriously, I think your practice of passing such gigs to others is the right thing to do - especially here where your wife's relationship with this bride may be at risk. I would, however, further suggest that you go along for the ride as a second shooter - take this opportunity to get some experience. It'll be well worth the time you invest. And, don't be surprised if the primary is unwilling to pay you to second shoot. He's taking what spare time he/she has during the event to train you. That's worth serious gold!

Just my $.02 and YMMV.

crockett · November 14, 2008

A couple things...please no one worry about slamming me as a photographer, I have very broad shoulders and I am very well grounded as to how good or bad of photographer I really am. Besides not caring what you say about skill level, that wasn't the point of my inquiry and I would just ignore it anyways.....:D

I was worried this might turn into the "The only way to become a wedding photographer is to shot many weddings for absolutely free under seasoned pro..." vs. "I have a camera, why can't I shoot my brothers wedding, it's my right!!!"

I also agree more with Swartzy than I disagree with him, however.....
I guess what got missed is, I don't advertise as wedding shooter (because I'm not) and I also don't talk to people who inquiry about traditional wedding photography, I simply refer them.

However, more important to me at least, is I am fully aware that we live in a real world and not an ideal internet world.

And the real world is that I already know this woman will not be dropping 2500-5000k on a wedding photographer. I have already passed along the message that she might consider contacting a seasoned pro and see if she can find one who is willing do a real slimmed down in and out shoot of the moment(s) most important to her (probably the cermony). However, good luck getting a photographer to tie up a date 10 months in advance that he/she could potentially book for a client who is willing to pay the normal 2500-5000k they get. Plus throw in the fact she has already indicated that she wants to capture the entire day and I'm guessing her chances of going this route are slim to none, but I have suggested it and told her to get back to me if she strikes out.

The reason I've considered it is because there are a couple websites right here in my home town that I could point you to that are advertising as wedding photographers and the images look like they were taken by a blind dog carrying a P&S and I'm not exagerating. Some of the images (posted in their presentation gallery nonetheless!!!!) are severly under or overexposed and the vast majority of them contain PHOTO 101 mistakes, like a pole growing out of the head, etc.

I just thought rather than go this route that I could get her an experience just one small notch above a novice burn and turn wedding photographer with a Rebel.

Again, I'm not saying by any means whatsoever that I am some terrific wedding photgrapher that will get her wall mounted image after wall mounted image but I'm relatively sure that I can do better than her cousin with the rebel or someone who advertises print prices of $0.50 for a 4x6 and a $1.75 for a 5x7 (no joke!) with a website containing multiple photos that are out of focus.

But...obviously I failed at conveying that message.

Anyone know of some good reference material on the top one hundred do and don'ts?

Scott, thanks you've provide a good start.

Scott_Quier · November 14, 2008

crockett wrote:

Scott, thanks you've provide a good start.

Por Nada:D

It may be poor form pointing to another forum, but here's another list of resource information. And, he's good!

zoomer · November 15, 2008

First of all don't charge her for the shoot. Chalk this one up as getting experience. That will remove all kinds of expectations and problems that are not worth throwing into the mix for the few hundred dollars you could reasonably charge her due to your lack of experience.

Have two of everything in case something stops working....this does happen. Once I had my main camera go down 2:00 minutes before the bride started down the aisle, and keep it close in case you do need it.
I had to run through the church to my truck outside in the snow...switch cameras...run back through the church and be pack in position 10 seconds before she started down the aisle...I aged 10 years in those 2 minutes...hah.

You may want to shoot your first wedding in automatic P mode...keep it is simple as possible. DO NOT bring another inexperience person along to help you...that just gives you one more thing to have in your head to worry about.
Check all your menus and settings before you start, keep it simple. In the action you will not remember to adjust camera settings other that basic exposure compensation...you will be riding that dial all day with all the whites and blacks.

DO NOT give a running commentary or ever mention any problems you are having photographically or with your equipment to your clents. Major buzz kill and they don't want to hear about it. Just talk to them while you work it out and start shooting again when ready...they don't know any better..they will think it is part of the process.
DO NOT DO NOT start out the day by telling them this is your first wedding and you don't know what you are doing.

Shoot in RAW or JPEG is ok if you have Lightroom. You WILL have exposure problems you will need to fix in processing.

THE MAIN THING never let them see you sweat...if they lose confidence in the belief that you know what you are doing you will suffer for it.

Guard your completed cards with your life...it is easy to get distracted and misplace a card in the chaos if you are very nervous.

Don't run out of batteries or cards. Use a flash bracket for on camera flash and get that flash off the camera or bounce whenever you can.

You are working... keep the chatting socializing eating drinking sitting around to a minimum.

Don't photograph people during the reception while they are eating...people don't like it and nobody wants to see it.

Shoot people interacting, emotional moments.
Basically stick with the bride most of the time....it is her day.
Let her know that you are keeping an eye on her and if she want you to take a shot to just motion to you and you will come right over.

KEEP IT FUN, add to the fun, and you will get great pictures.

angevin1 · November 15, 2008

Am I crazy here? Way off either way? Stupid, be blunt. . .I have very broad shoulders.

You asked for advice.

First of all, Congratulations are in order for finally turning pro and doing what you love for a financial reward.

I think a lot of this rhetorical speech is premature, as is your post. One important aspect is missing: You haven't talked with her yourself!

Heck, you and she may see things so very differently, you may never have to worry about all of these details...so go...go and interview/ chat with this gal and then report back~

cheers, tom

Scott_Quier · November 15, 2008

angevin1 wrote:

Am I crazy here? Way off either way? Stupid, be blunt. . .I have very broad shoulders.

You asked for advice.

First of all, Congratulations are in order for finally turning pro and doing what you love for a financial reward.

I think a lot of this rhetorical speech is premature, as is your post. One important aspect is missing: You haven't talked with her yourself!

Heck, you and she may see things so very differently, you may never have to worry about all of these details...so go...go and interview/ chat with this gal and then report back~

cheers, tom

Nice catch - I missed that one the first read. All the above advice is just so much white noise until the contract has been signed by both parties.

crockett · November 15, 2008

O.k. angevin1 wins "post of the thread so far!". Best point.

Zoomer, thank you! That is excellent advice and exactly what I was looking for. I already have almost everyone of those you mentioned on a list but you did bring up a few I had overlooked.

A couple points I disagree with you on.

1) I haven't shot with a camera in "P" since I was 17 (1987) when I owned a Canon AE-1. In fact, I don't even know how a camera works in "P" mode. I'd be a bumbling idiot trying to get detailed DOF shots of flowers, rings, bridal party table at reception, etc. Can you even change aperatures in "P" mode?

2) I'm not so sure about not taking an assistant (my daughter). She's not a dolt, she would dress smartly, is very polite and knows how to handle herself in a social situation such as wedding. I just think she would be invaluable in handling things such as tracking equipment (especially CF cards as you mentioned). She already knows how to handle a flash on a stick (if I used that method, power up, power down, maintain good lighting when possible, i.e. loop lighting, short lighting, etc.), herding people when needed for certain shots and more. I would think the number of tasks she could handle and/or help with would be endless, maybe not?

3) I'm not working for free. No way, no how. There won't be any confusion about expectations, she is already aware that I have NEVER shot a wedding and I have already encouraged here to consider other more expensive options.

I thought David Ziser had an excellent podcast discussing shoot and burn wedding photographers. PLEASE let me bracket that with saying that I haven't made up my mind about how I feel one way or the other, but he made some excellent points in my opinion. Surprisingly, he feels if you shoot and burn you should do it just how I was considering doing it. And please don't take this as an invitation to lead into a heated discussion about shoot and burn. I just thought it hit home when he discussed almost exactly what I was considering.

6-8 hours actual shooting time at the wedding.
12 hours of processing which would include:
-remove all the over, under exposed, accidental shutter trips, etc.
-dump any losers and sort the strongest "X" number images (we'll say 1000 just as a number).
-Do basic adjustment on all these (wb, exposure, white and black point, light sharpening, contrast, clarity, crop, etc.)
-As time permits do more extensive retouching on the strongest images (vignettes, color adjustments, B+W, skin retouching, simple actions, etc.)
-convert to jpg
-Burn to a DVD...retaining copyright but releasing print rights.

Charge $1K and include a flier from my wedding photog friend advertising that if she decides to in the near future, he would handle designing her wedding book.

Almost exactly what Ziser discusses here:

http://digitalprotalk.blogspot.com/2008/11/podcast-wednesday-should-we-shoot-shoot.html

zoomer · November 16, 2008

Hi Crockett,
You asked for advice and of course it is your choice whether to pay any attention to it or not.
The more you fool with the settings on your camera the more likely you are to get distracted and end up shooting for a very long time with the settings not where you want them.
You may want to learn how P mode works. If everything goes to *&^% which it can you may wish you could have resorted to the P mode to get you out of trouble.
As for the assistant remember she has never done a wedding either and she will undoubtedly be more nervous than you and no matter how together she is you will need to watch out for her.
I would be interested to hear how the wedding turns out and post some of the pics from the day.
I am sure if you have plenty of experience in other photographic areas you will be fine..after all it's not rocket science is it??

mmmatt · November 17, 2008

The pace of a wedding can be jarring, and the different lighting situations can be tough. Going from inside to outside and back again within a couple minutes, or strong sun to clouds and whatnot is where your proficiency might wain. Not to many other shooting situations where things change so quickly.

Being able to make those shots is one thing but being able to do them on the fly is a real skill. THEN being able to do it all in the back of your mind while your creative eye is doing its thing is where we separate the men and the boys. I find myself improving in those areas with each wedding I shoot and hope that will be something I still say 10 years from now.

Make yourself some cheatsheats relating to shots you want to take or camera settings for a given situation. Look over the gallerys in this forum and get some ideas... we have some awesome shooters here, and most wouldn't mind telling the way they achieved a shot or whatever.

Good luck!

Matt

rsparts · November 17, 2008

zoomer wrote:

You may want to learn how P mode works. If everything goes to *&^% which it can you may wish you could have resorted to the P mode to get you out of trouble.

Is this to say we should leave our cameras in P mode unless we're aiming for a more custom shot in which case we would switch to Manual?

MaryBoo · November 17, 2008

zoomer wrote:

Don't photograph people during the reception while they are eating...people don't like it and nobody wants to see it.

But you can photograph them GETTING the food - I did a FFW (Free Friend Wedding) and parked myself at the Chocolate fountain. I was able to get a bunch fun captures of the wedding guests by doing this and according to the bride, it turned into one of the best parts of the wedding album. (Done using Blurb - http://www.blurb.com/books/110966)

As for your wedding checklist, I'm sure you have all of the people pictures noted, but don't forget all of those "things" that the bride spent months planning: the invitations, the wedding program, the flower arrangements (all of them, not just the bouquet), the food, the drinks, the decorations, pictures of the exterior and interior of the wedding & receiption locations, those type of things. Ask her to tell you about planning the wedding and you will get an idea of those "things" that you should really try to capture. Photos of these things will bring back amazing memories as time passes.

And ask if she or her family have made anything for the wedding (my weddiing had artwork on the invitations & program done by the kids) and if any family heirlooms will be floating around on the wedding day. Also are there any family traditions that will be observed. Be sure to capture those things as well.

And I love those closeup/macro pictures of the dress and veil details. That dress and veil were choosen because of those small details. And be sure to get the details of the grooms tux as well (cuff links, cummberbund, those shinny, shinny shoes) - he'll never be that pretty again either

I think if you set the expectations LOW, then your bride can be happy when you deliver what you expect to be able to capture. And if anyone is havng birthday parties or other fun events with lots of people and bad lighting you should bring your camera along and practice, practice, practice.

I hope it goes well for you.

Mary
www.cherryvalleyphoto.com

Scott_Quier · November 17, 2008

rsparts wrote:

Is this to say we should leave our cameras in P mode unless we're aiming for a more custom shot in which case we would switch to Manual?

No, I don't think so. I think the best policy would be to learn to shoot in manual and be proficient. But, at the same time, learn what you can about Av, Tv, P, and all the other features offered by your camera. The "P" mode can pull you bacon out of the fire if you get into a situation for which you have not prepared and you HAVE to get the shot. Any shot in this situation, no matter how it was obtained, is better than not getting the shot at all.

Knowing all the modes makes it so much easier to work creatively.

zoomer · November 18, 2008

What Scott said.
I never use P anymore.
My first couple weddings were shot about 80% in P mode. Especially when it came to using flash.

Now that I have more experience I don't get into situations I am not prepared for.

I only suggested P mode for a first wedding...things will come at you faster than you may be ready for. You can't tell everybody to wait for you while you check and reset your camera settings and no time to check the histograms and blinkies after every shot OH NO. Slap it in P mode and keep on shooting.

rsparts · November 18, 2008

zoomer wrote:

What Scott said.
I never use P anymore.
My first couple weddings were shot about 80% in P mode. Especially when it came to using flash.

Now that I have more experience I don't get into situations I am not prepared for.

I only suggested P mode for a first wedding...things will come at you faster than you may be ready for. You can't tell everybody to wait for you while you check and reset your camera settings and no time to check the histograms and blinkies after every shot OH NO. Slap it in P mode and keep on shooting.

I vary between A and M

sweet caroline · November 18, 2008

When I first got my DSLR, I shot in some of those other modes for about a week. I wasn't very happy with the results. Not terrible, just not what I envisioned. As soon as I started shooting in manual, my photography improved my leaps and bounds. I understand manual more intuitively, which means less thinking about the camera while shooting and more thinking about the subject. So, I think planning to shoot in the mode you're most comfortable and most experienced makes sense.

Caroline

davidjay · November 20, 2008

Hey Crockett!

Yea! Congrats. Your work is great and I'd jump on it if she wants to hire you. The first weddings I'd shoot were like bootcamp for me and I'd work the longest 12-14 hour days and shoot 1000's of extra images just to make sure I didn't miss anything. Once I got the flow of the day down I could ease up a bit and still be confident that I'd be able to get the shots.

My guess is that this bride will take a small risk with you and in turn will get a huge reward for doing so.

Rock on,
DJ

davidjay · November 20, 2008

Scott_Quier wrote:

No, I don't think so. I think the best policy would be to learn to shoot in manual and be proficient. But, at the same time, learn what you can about Av, Tv, P, and all the other features offered by your camera. The "P" mode can pull you bacon out of the fire if you get into a situation for which you have not prepared and you HAVE to get the shot. Any shot in this situation, no matter how it was obtained, is better than not getting the shot at all.

Knowing all the modes makes it so much easier to work creatively.

Great advice Scott! Learning in manual is the way I chose to go because it helped me understand the different variables that I had control of. After that I moved to shooting in AV mode a lot mixed with Canon's "Safety Shift" feature which is essentially auto-ISO.

Scott_Quier · November 20, 2008

davidjay wrote:

Hey Crockett!

Yea! Congrats. Your work is great and I'd jump on it if she wants to hire you. The first weddings I'd shoot were like bootcamp for me and I'd work the longest 12-14 hour days and shoot 1000's of extra images just to make sure I didn't miss anything. Once I got the flow of the day down I could ease up a bit and still be confident that I'd be able to get the shots.

My guess is that this bride will take a small risk with you and in turn will get a huge reward for doing so.

Rock on,
DJ

One has to ask - you started shooting 1,000's of shot. Now that you've done it a day or two, would you care to share your "average", before the culling, image count? How much for a day or, if it's easier, how many on a per hour basis. Rounding to the nearest 100 or 200 would be cool - we know clients read these posts.

Blurmore · November 20, 2008

Image Count
I'm not afraid to tell. I've been photographing weddings solo for 5 years with another 5 years of experience assisting/second shooting. I've only burned more than 1000 frames on 3 weddings, a 12 hour 2 ceremony Indian wedding, a big Jewish wedding downtown, and another where they just had a big bridal party and a lot going on. Typically I fall between 600-800 for an 8 hour job. From that number I make my "gut cut" using the star system in lightroom, the gut cut is usually 240-270 images and those I proof. I also make a habit of not even looking at pictures from a Saturday wedding until Wednesday. I think this allows me to approach it from a fresh editorial point of view. I routinely work with second photographers who shoot 2k+ images on an 8 hour (sub contract someone else edits it) job. Most of these seconds are young, and have shot less than 15 weddings. I still work as a second photographer occasionally and in this capacity I tend to overshoot as well, so I'm not blaming overshooting on inexperience, I think working as a second lends itself to a lot of motordrive and candid work by nature. I shot my first solo wedding after assisting 2 years, 8hr job on 2 propacks of NPH (240 frames in a Hasselblad and Mamiya C330), ofcourse I had extra film but I also had instructions not to exceed 2 pro packs unless I had a darn good reason.

One of the guys I learned from told me in HIS days of assisting his main job was to reload Graflok backs with Kodak Ready loads (2 shots per back shoot flip shoot reload). Thats why those traditional family posed portraits used to hold SO much importance, in the 4x5 days shooting 100 frames at a wedding was a LOT. The photog shot a couple of bridal portraits, groups, first dance (maybe), toasts, cake and thats it, and most all of it was posed because you had to make sure it was right, the first time.

Scott_Quier · November 20, 2008

Blurmore wrote:

I'm not afraid to tell. I've been photographing weddings solo for 5 years with another 5 years of experience assisting/second shooting. I've only burned more than 1000 frames on 3 weddings, a 12 hour 2 ceremony Indian wedding, a big Jewish wedding downtown, and another where they just had a big bridal party and a lot going on. Typically I fall between 600-800 for an 8 hour job. From that number I make my "gut cut" using the star system in lightroom, the gut cut is usually 240-270 images and those I proof. I also make a habit of not even looking at pictures from a Saturday wedding until Wednesday. I think this allows me to approach it from a fresh editorial point of view. I routinely work with second photographers who shoot 2k+ images on an 8 hour (sub contract someone else edits it) job. Most of these seconds are young, and have shot less than 15 weddings. I still work as a second photographer occasionally and in this capacity I tend to overshoot as well, so I'm not blaming overshooting on inexperience, I think working as a second lends itself to a lot of motordrive and candid work by nature. I shot my first solo wedding after assisting 2 years, 8hr job on 2 propacks of NPH (240 frames in a Hasselblad and Mamiya C330), ofcourse I had extra film but I also had instructions not to exceed 2 pro packs unless I had a darn good reason.

One of the guys I learned from told me in HIS days of assisting his main job was to reload Graflok backs with Kodak Ready loads (2 shots per back shoot flip shoot reload). Thats why those traditional family posed portraits used to hold SO much importance, in the 4x5 days shooting 100 frames at a wedding was a LOT. The photog shot a couple of bridal portraits, groups, first dance (maybe), toasts, cake and thats it, and most all of it was posed because you had to make sure it was right, the first time.

This makes me feel a lot better. When working by myself (not recently) I used to get somewhere between 700 - 1,000 (for a really long day). Now, I'm having more fun with it and I tend to get a little more - still not more than 1,100 - even on a very long day.

Don't know what I would do if I had to limit my self to 240 images - yes I do .... I'b be a whole lot more careful when pushing the shutter button - especially if it was me that was paying for the film and processing

I used to delay looking at the shots for almost a week - that was in the beginning when I was scared to look. Now, with more experience, I have a pretty good idea of what I got and am eager to look!

davidjay · November 21, 2008

Scott_Quier wrote:

One has to ask - you started shooting 1,000's of shot. Now that you've done it a day or two, would you care to share your "average", before the culling, image count? How much for a day or, if it's easier, how many on a per hour basis. Rounding to the nearest 100 or 200 would be cool - we know clients read these posts.

Yea - around 1500 - 2000. and then I delete out the bad ones (which I guess are the majority

) and give the client 700-800.

JohnBiggs · November 24, 2008

OP: I hope nothing goes wrong for you. It's easy to make checklists and bring them along but what really happens isn't what you had imagined.

At the wedding I shot last weekend I only had 5 minutes to shoot the formals because the location had to take the stage down for the reception.

My friend (a fairly competent photographer) did his first wedding even after my warning, and he says he'll never do one again. The bride was very 'no pressure take what you can get' before the wedding, but then became bridezilla on the wedding day. The worst part is it started raining at the outdoor event and the only room they could move it into packed everyone so tight he was 4 feet from the bride/groom during the ceremony. He said people kept bumping into him too.

The point is you never know whats going to happen even if you plan it. I've shot some weddings that have gone pretty much to plan, but it's not that usual.

tonichelle · November 24, 2008

The first three weddings I was a part of (As photog) I was the second eye - there's NO WAY I would have felt comfy doing it all on my own...

I've only done a handful of weddings by myself. It's scary, but I love it. However, I think you've really already made up your mind even though you say you're looking for advice. A lot of people have chimed in with GREAT advice, and you're turning it down. You have the right to that, but it also sets you up for an "I told you so"

I thought I was ready for the first one I did all by my lonesome and things quickly turned to pot. The bride's dress was caught in a snow storm, they had no real plan as to what they were going to do (no rehearsal the night before!), they asked ME what comes next in a wedding!

you admitted you don't pay attention to what goes on during the ceremony reception when you're there as a guest. I was the exact opposite.

You have to be willing to be assertive (my big set back) when it comes to taking the shot, but you also can't just pick a fight with the family of either side (well, you can, but I wouldn't). You don't know how this family reacts to the word no or move... even when said nicely.

The last wedding I shot start to finish was for a friend, and it was free (she couldn't afford what little she did get for her wedding pretty much) and all I asked for is the right to use them in my portfolio, online, and whatever else I wanted (ok I pretty much do that with anyone I shoot - but I charge them for my work lol) I knew her side of the family very well, and had NO idea about his side at all. Thankfully it worked out (but her side of the family was HUGE so that was a chore in and of itself!).

I'm not saying DON'T do it, and if it's a small wedding you'll probably be fine. But don't think a few dozen/hundred portrait shoots will prepare you for a wedding... NOTHING except experience can prepare you, and even then crap happens. (One wedding where I was the second eye the other photog - who didn't really like me being asked to shoot because she thought I wasn't needed - her camera died... she ended up using someone in the audience's point and shoot to get the rest of the pics... mother of the bride refuses to use that photog again and has told EVERYONE about it... thankfully I got some great captures at the reception - I wasn't allowed to shoot the ceremony - and she lets everyone know about me)

take it for what it's worth. I'm not saying "don't do it" but don't negate what these years in the business pros are saying.

Kwarta · November 24, 2008

I stumbled on this post. Just my two cents as a former bride. I had a friend who took amazing pictures of my family for several years, and since I could not shoot my own wedding, I thought why not. He has done an excellent job with my family right. WRONG. He did not do any research on how to handle a wedding. If your gonna shoot a wedding STUDY, STUDY, STUDY. See if you can shadow a pro in your area. I wish He had.

Scott_Quier · November 24, 2008

Kwarta wrote:

I stumbled on this post. Just my two cents as a former bride. I had a friend who took amazing pictures of my family for several years, and since I could not shoot my own wedding, I thought why not. He has done an excellent job with my family right. WRONG. He did not do any research on how to handle a wedding. If your gonna shoot a wedding STUDY, STUDY, STUDY. See if you can shadow a pro in your area. I wish He had.

I've very sorry your photos, I guessing, turned out to be less than you expected.:cry :cry

I've had a number of prospective clients end up telling me they decided to let a friend of a friend to it for them because they (insert reason here; "they know how to take good pictures", "they have a nice camera", ...). I've often wondered how it worked out for them but, of course, it would not be good form to call them up and ask - too much like rubbing their nose in it.

Again, I'm sorry you have regrets - but I do have to agree with your advice! Thanks so much for adding the client's perspective to this discussion!

JohnBiggs · November 25, 2008

Kwarta wrote:

I stumbled on this post. Just my two cents as a former bride. I had a friend who took amazing pictures of my family for several years, and since I could not shoot my own wedding, I thought why not. He has done an excellent job with my family right. WRONG. He did not do any research on how to handle a wedding. If your gonna shoot a wedding STUDY, STUDY, STUDY. See if you can shadow a pro in your area. I wish He had.

STUDY will not help. You need actual practice. Try to find a pro to work as a second shooter. At least do one wedding with the pro. Got off that horse and do it for free/cheap at least once just to get it done.

ian408 · November 25, 2008

JohnBiggs wrote:

STUDY will not help. You need actual practice. Try to find a pro to work as a second shooter. At least do one wedding with the pro. Got off that horse and do it for free/cheap at least once just to get it done.

I think this is good advice. You're already accomplished as a photographer. Your daughter seems to have it together and you have a good idea what you need to accomplish before you do the wedding. And you have 10 months (more or less) to work on it. If you choose to shoot as a second, you may want to do this nearer your event as opposed to say now.

GFI

(that means Go For It).

Wedding Photography For The Beginner

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