Ceremony question

cdonovan · November 14, 2008

When I meet the officient at the rehersal, they are very quick to tell me when I can't take pictures...and from the experience I've had it's during most of the ceremony....I have to think that this isn't a local thing that I run into...but how on earth do you people negotiate to have more pictures of the wedding ceremony, and during times that I've never been allowed to shoot...should I just skip the meeting and use the ignorance is bliss theory and just shoot anyway...how do you all handle this!??

Scott_Quier · November 14, 2008

cdonovan wrote:

When I meet the officient at the rehersal, they are very quick to tell me when I can't take pictures...and from the experience I've had it's during most of the ceremony....I have to think that this isn't a local thing that I run into...but how on earth do you people negotiate to have more pictures of the wedding ceremony, and during times that I've never been allowed to shoot...should I just skip the meeting and use the ignorance is bliss theory and just shoot anyway...how do you all handle this!??

Go to the meeting - ignorance is no excuse. You don't want to be blacklisted from shooting in that church - it's very bad for business. In addition, it's only at these meetings that you have any opportunity to take to the officiant and negotiate some wiggle room.

Sometimes you can talk them into allowing you to shoot without flash. Sometimes they won't allow you to approach the alter any closer than the last seated guest. Sometimes, the require you to TURN OFF the camera once the bride has arrived at the alter and not allow it to be turned on again until just before "You may kiss your bride." Whatever the rules, don't break them. And, if you do break them, don't get caught - but I really don't suggest this option.:D

cdonovan · November 14, 2008

I would never skip out on the meeting, meant that more tongue in cheek than anything...I'm just curious as to how folks get away with all these shots...for the ones that I've met, I've talked about not using flash, and the reasoning is more that it's a sacred service, and that it's disrespectful to record it, that I'm there as much of a part of the ceremony and as a witness as the rest of the people are, and that I should be paying attention, and less of a flash thing....I very much follow the rules...just sometimes wish I didn't have too! Any tips on negotiating for more shots??
Thanks!

sweet caroline · November 14, 2008

I think this will vary based on the church. Always ask if you can shoot from a distance, without flash, etc. so you aren't a distraction. The worst they can say is "no". Ask about staging some shots after the real ceremony. I think a lot of officiants will play along when it's not part of the actual sacred exchanging of vows and saying prayers.

Caroline

zoomer · November 14, 2008

I have never had any restrictions placed on my taking pictures.
They just ask that I stay out of the front where I would be a distraction.
Then with the d700 I don't need a flash so I just blast away either from the back with the 70-200 on ISO 3200 or closer if I can manage it without being a distraction.

I have never been to a pre meeting of any kind. I meet the bridal party at the church 3 hours early for pictures and then have a chat with the minister when he shows up. I tell him how beautiful his church is and how excited he must be to get to marry such an awesome couple, then I ask him how he would prefer me to photograph the ceremony and he tells me his rules.
Guess I have been lucky so far.

I wouldn't use the ignorance is bliss theory, never a good idea to upset anyone at a wedding you are being paid to photograph.

sherijohnson · November 14, 2008

zoomer wrote:

I have never had any restrictions placed on my taking pictures.
They just ask that I stay out of the front where I would be a distraction.
Then with the d700 I don't need a flash so I just blast away either from the back with the 70-200 on ISO 3200 or closer if I can manage it without being a distraction.

I have never been to a pre meeting of any kind. I meet the bridal party at the church 3 hours early for pictures and then have a chat with the minister when he shows up. I tell him how beautiful his church is and how excited he must be to get to marry such an awesome couple, then I ask him how he would prefer me to photograph the ceremony and he tells me his rules.
Guess I have been lucky so far.

I wouldn't use the ignorance is bliss theory, never a good idea to upset anyone at a wedding you are being paid to photograph.

This is the best advice I have heard here. I like your approach.

cj99si · November 16, 2008

Ive had a few times were there was some serious negotiating and was able to work out something that worked (ive never had to "fake" a shot after) . Only one time did the pastor say absolutely no photos. For that wedding I shot from the lobby through the 2 back side doors 1/4 open with the 70-200, everyone was happy:D

mmmatt · November 17, 2008

This is where long, fast lenses, and HQ high-ISO come in handy. Not too often will the officiant say you can't shoot from the choir loft or rear of the church. I've also had success just asking for flash at the first kiss since everyone in the church is blasting away then anyway. By all means ask and show respect the rules of the officiant and the church. Also good policy to put that type of verbage into your contract... B&G must understand that you are not responsible for those shots that are against the rules of the church or officiant.

Matt

sherijohnson · November 17, 2008

mmmatt wrote:

This is where long, fast lenses, and HQ high-ISO come in handy. Not too often will the officiant say you can't shoot from the choir loft or rear of the church. I've also had success just asking for flash at the first kiss since everyone in the church is blasting away then anyway. By all means ask and show respect the rules of the officiant and the church. Also good policy to put that type of verbage into your contract... B&G must understand that you are not responsible for those shots that are against the rules of the church or officiant.

Matt

Good advice about adding that to your contract.

Scott_Quier · November 17, 2008

mmmatt wrote:

Also good policy to put that type of verbage into your contract... B&G must understand that you are not responsible for those shots that are against the rules of the church or officiant.

Matt

And good business sense - your client must understand that you, as the guest, must work within the rules laid down by the officient and the reception venue management. I use words to the effect that I'm more than happy to provide technical advise but the negotiations, if any, are between the client and the officient/management.

When a decision is made, I salute smartly and press on as directed. Getting black-listed at either a church or a reception venue is not something I would like to have happen to me - too much potential loss of revenue

Blurmore · November 17, 2008

My contract clearly states that I will & MUST follow the house rules.

I follow the house rules. I've seen a photographer dressed down during a ceremony by an officiant...it is NOT pretty.

http://jknauer.smugmug.com/gallery/4953472_CzJ4P#300130875_erLuc

This wedding had a no shots from walk to kiss rule. The job was referred to my by the pastor who I had worked with before on a subcontract job. When she laid down the rules, I accepted them, didn't argue, and didn't cheat. She told me I was the first photographer who didn't try to give her a hard time. Bottom line, make sure the bride and groom know what they are going to get within the framework of the rules, follow the rules, and let rule negotiation to be up to the bride and groom.

cdonovan · November 18, 2008

Never even considered putting this in contract. I've always, however made sure that my conversation at the church, always involved the bride, so she knew it was their definition...not mine...when I would be able to shoot. I don't like being in the way, so I tend to hide, as much as possible.
I will inquire next time if I can shoot from the back instead of the front.
After a ceremony was over this past summer the minitster searched for me while the folks were working the recieving line. He said that he sometimes has input into photographers and took my card, he said, he's never had anyone follow the rules as I have. I've never seen such a dark chuch, and there is no way to shoot without flash, so there's no fudging anything!!!

Again it sounds like I should mention that I would NEVER consider ignorance is bliss set up, I'd be mortified to do anything wrong...I just wondered how other people got away with it!

Thanks for all your input.

mmmatt · November 19, 2008

cdonovan wrote:

I've never seen such a dark chuch, and there is no way to shoot without flash, so there's no fudging anything!!!

Don 't be afraid to ask somebody to turn up the lights... simple request and not usually more than a twist of the dimmers.

Matt

cdonovan · November 19, 2008

mmmatt wrote:

Don 't be afraid to ask somebody to turn up the lights... simple request and not usually more than a twist of the dimmers.

Matt

Oh Mat, if it were only that simple. The insde of the church is picture this...
Concrete (dark) and then the windows are stained glass are quite tall, but very narrow and because of the wall thickness, you have to be standing square on to them to even be able to see them. There are 2 hanging pot lights with stained glass covers on them, and the lights are up fully. It's unique to say for sure!

jeffreaux2 · November 19, 2008

I have run across anything from "Do whatever you want" to no flash, no moving from wing to wing, no sneaking up behind the minister with a camera.

The church I attend only allows shooting from the balcony during the ceremony.

Once, for lack of real estate I stood shoulder to shoulder with a justice of the peace photographing the ceremony.

Either way, Its their show, their rules...and we must abide. The couple should be forwarned as well...and finding out on their wedding day is a tad late in my opinion. Attending the rehearsal can clear these matters as well as working with the coordinator on ambient lighting issues.

I NEVER try to "sneak" around the rules....and always provide the officiant a 5x7 of him/herself on my dime.

mmmatt · November 20, 2008

cdonovan wrote:

Oh Mat, if it were only that simple. The insde of the church is picture this...
Concrete (dark) and then the windows are stained glass are quite tall, but very narrow and because of the wall thickness, you have to be standing square on to them to even be able to see them. There are 2 hanging pot lights with stained glass covers on them, and the lights are up fully. It's unique to say for sure!

ok... so things aren't always that simple. This sounds like a rather gloomy room.

Matt

davidjay · November 20, 2008

Yea - usually if you meetup and show the officiant how respectful you are and that you're not gonna be causing a distraction they will be cool. I typically stay in the back most of the time anyway. I shoot with a long lens - no flash - turn the beeping sounds of my camera off - turn my camera to quiet shutter mode and nobody even knows I'm there.

All this to say I have been scolded a few times by the "church lady" for doing things she asked me not to do because at the end of the day I'm not there to make her happy or the officiant happy - I'm there to please my client. So don't be afraid to break the rules from time to time but just be nice and apologetic when you do.

cj99si · November 20, 2008

davidjay wrote:

turn the beeping sounds of my camera off - turn my camera to quiet shutter mode and nobody even knows I'm there.

quiet shutter mode

Whats that? What camera do you use?

Blurmore · November 20, 2008

cj99si wrote:

quiet shutter mode

Whats that? What camera do you use?

Quiet Shutter is a Live View Mode on a 40D, I think it keeps the mirror up and just fires the shutter no AF though. Never used it.

cj99si · November 20, 2008

Blurmore wrote:

Quiet Shutter is a Live View Mode on a 40D, I think it keeps the mirror up and just fires the shutter no AF though. Never used it.

I have a 40D I'll have to look into it. my eyes suck so the manual focus might kill the idea for me.... Im confused though, you said you used that mode then you said you never used it at the end of this post.

Blurmore · November 20, 2008

cj99si wrote:

I have a 40D I'll have to look into it. my eyes suck so the manual focus might kill the idea for me.... Im confused though, you said you used that mode then you said you never used it at the end of this post.

methinks davidjay said he used this mode.

cj99si · November 20, 2008

Blurmore wrote:

methinks davidjay said he used this mode.

Duh! Sorry, not thinking strait in the middle of processing a wedding. Wow.

davidjay · November 20, 2008

cj99si wrote:

quiet shutter mode

Whats that? What camera do you use?

I shoot with the Mark III and on that camera it's called Silent mode but I know other cameras have a similar setting as well. It's a setting that takes the camera into single shot and it delays the mirror returning to position.

DJ

Blurmore · November 21, 2008

davidjay wrote:

I shoot with the Mark III and on that camera it's called Silent mode but I know other cameras have a similar setting as well. It's a setting that takes the camera into single shot and it delays the mirror returning to position.

DJ

DJ I just checked out your website..wow. I like the Icon silouhette of you chimping...don't just own up to it...make it your own!

davidjay · November 21, 2008

Blurmore wrote:

DJ I just checked out your website..wow. I like the Icon silouhette of you chimping...don't just own up to it...make it your own!

Hey thanks man! lol - I do chimp like a mad man although I promise I wasn't chimping for the photo

Here's the original shot. I swear I wasn't chimping.

Although I don't think I'll ever convince people.

tonichelle · November 21, 2008

I've never had any restrictions placed on me that weren't "duh" restrictions (like getting in front and all that)... it never occurred to me that there would be. Considering everyone there is hired by the bride and groom we are all working together to make their big day special...

then again most of the weddings I've been a part of as a photographer were done in the same church that I grew up in so I had an "in"

(most but not all)

and there are quite a few weddings where the pastor/minister was not the pastor of the church that they were in... so maybe I'm not the norm

Ceremony question

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