Legality of posting pictures on the internet

PhotoDoc

Is there any legal problem with taking pictures at children's sporting events and posting them for families to buy?

Do I need permission to photograph them (children) and post them?

If this is not the right place to ask, would you point me in the right direction?

wbphotos

PhotoDoc wrote:

Is there any legal problem with taking pictures at children's sporting events and posting them for families to buy?

Do I need permission to photograph them (children) and post them?

If this is not the right place to ask, would you point me in the right direction?

i went through this before....

If you are at a event where you are not hired, you need to get them to sign a consent form if the person in the photo is under age. If you are hired for an event to take the photos then you can put them up....it can be written into your policy so they know of it before hand and can object to it if they dont want you to.

i believe it works that way.

du8die

Depends.

Check out the sticky at the top of this forum on model releases. My understanding is that if you are selling prints to parents for personal use, no model release is needed. If you are selling images to a third party (newspaper, magazine, etc), you would need a release.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that either way, you password protect your galleries of kids. It's not technically necessary, but it keeps you on the good side of the parents.

Here's a link to the thread...

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=97869

Not a lawyer. Don't play one on TV. But, this directly affects me, so I've been trying to read up on it. Hopefully I haven't been reading the wrong things.

Blaker

du8die wrote:

Depends.

Check out the sticky at the top of this forum on model releases. My understanding is that if you are selling prints to parents for personal use, no model release is needed. If you are selling images to a third party (newspaper, magazine, etc), you would need a release.

Not quite like that.
If the events are happening out in the public, you can take photos and you can sell them EDITORIALLY ( such as to a newspaper or magazine) without consent.

If you are going to sell them COMMERCIALLY ( such as for an advertisement) you would need to have a model release signed.

If the events are happening in a private place ( such as a gym) you would need permission from the owner to take photos.

If you are attending little league or soccer games in order to sell photos to the parents, it might be a good idea to introduce yourself to the coach - perhaps he can let the parents know that you will be offering photos for sale.
I think it's a good idea to password protect your gallery of these photos- perhaps the coach can send out an email to the families telling them where to locate your website and giving them the password.

xris

Take note that there have been serious issues with this in some places. In fact while visiting Britain this spring I was warned by no less than 3 separate people (who know me, in part, as a street photographer) that the authorities have been taking a dim view of unknown photographers setting sight on children.

Your rights aside, keep in mind the rights of the children -- they have the right to play without danger of molestation -- and that guardians have not only a right, but an obligation, to protect their charges. You may have the best intentions in the world, but keep in mind, how do they know you're not just some perv?

Point is: make yourself known, be very sensitive to the rights of others and, where possible, introduce yourself and ask permission.

bkatz

Always password protect and always introduce yourself to the coaches. It gets you repeat business and they are usually thrilled. I have had many conversations where the coaches and parents are thrilled that I protect the images of their children and if a request comes for a password I always let the coach give it out.

Works very well.

gman33

I password protect as well. I never show up and just start taking pictures at a game. I contact the league or team first, go to a meetingm show them my portfolio, etc. They love the fact that they are protected. I also have a disclaimer that I nor anyone associated with my company will be held responsible should the password be given out to anyone outside of the league.

The coach provides the password to the parents or they contact me directly. Although it is a pain, the parents appreciate it.

"But they are in a public place...anyone can be there" Yep...heard that before but I still password protect the galleries

I would also recommend a state and local background check...the coaches or anyone involved with the league needs to get this done.

PROTECT YOURSELF!!!!

Good luck

TonyL

I just ran into this issue last week.
I had a second photographer shoot school portraits with me.
The school got releases from parents allowing me to post the images online.
The second shooter I brought said she was going to post their pictures on her site to make herself money and get her name out there.
Outside of our agreement, the school said no and it would become a legal issue.
However, open field, etc. its fair game from lawyers I spoke to.
Out of courtesy, I do introduce myself.

Cygnus Studios

cadguru wrote:

However, open field, etc. its fair game from lawyers I spoke to.

This is true some of the time according to my attorney.
Can you still be sued? You bet!
Can the cops still pull you aside and ask you to leave? You Bet!

Personally I would not consider photographing kids without an agreement. While I may be legally protected, it still costs money to defend yourself.

For local and regional sports it is pretty easy to get permission.

TonyL

Cygnus Studios wrote:

This is true some of the time according to my attorney.
Can you still be sued? You bet!
Can the cops still pull you aside and ask you to leave? You Bet!

Personally I would not consider photographing kids without an agreement. While I may be legally protected, it still costs money to defend yourself.

For local and regional sports it is pretty easy to get permission.

Oh I agree.
I tell them why I am there, etc.
A few minutes or a phone call is better upfront then a ton of legal issues down the road.

snaptie2002

I have been watching this topic for a couple years now and have yet to see anyone provide a link to an actual law for or against posting and selling photos of minors on a website without a release from a legal gaurdian.

I don't think the legal system has caught up with the technology. I don't need a release to take your photo and show you a proof sheet so you can select a photo to purchase. But things may change if I take an unsolicited photo and post it online where anyone can buy it. That wasn't even possible not so long ago. I think adding minors to the equation only makes things even more tricky.

The instructor of a photography business course told me a couple weeks ago that I do need releases. He also gave me the name of a photographer's rights attorney in Atlanta. I plan to get her opinion soon and will be happy to share it with you.

If harm comes to some child because an estranged parent was able to track that child down through my website, I don't want to stand in front of a judge and say "The guy who runs the Rec Park said it was OK and some guy on the internet said I have a right to post the pictures and gave me some vague reasoning" But to be honest, right now, that's all I have. And I have about 20k photos online at the moment.

I think this issue is important to all of us. Online galleries of youth sports events is a multi-million dollar industry, you would think there would be some clear cut legal guidelines by now. I hope someone will give us a definitive answer with a link to some actual legislation but I'm starting to think there isn't one......yet.

I think it's a longshot that anything would ever happen. I'm operating under the premise that the odds against anything happening are so great that I (and the parents) shouldn't have to worry about it. Or heaven forbid if I should have a problem that there is some protection out there that I am just not aware of.

Right now I don't think we are afforded any protection for what we are doing the way newspapers and TV or media sources are

It would be better to have some laws in place now, and there may be, than to have an incident and then get some kind of overkill, knee jerk laws put in place that would shut down the industry.

I keep thinking that some lawyer/photographer lurking around one of these forums will pop up and give us some insight but I haven't seen one yet.




Marty

RogersDA

snaptie2002 wrote:

He also gave me the name of a photographer's rights attorney in Atlanta. I plan to get her opinion soon and will be happy to share it with you.

That would probably be Carolyn Wright who runs the popular PhotoAttorney Blog and is a frequent contributor over at NatureScapes.net.

davidweaver

http://krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

Read that. Save it locally, Print it. keep a copy in your car. It pertains to the US. YMMV in other countries.

There is a difference between being correct and polite and being legal and there are plenty of gray areas as discussed in this and similiar forums.

Some want to CYA. Some want to be polite. As for the basic question, you can post whatever you want as long as it is not obscene (a splendid slippery slope) and child porno is a no-no (another slippery slope) even if you are Elton John.

http://truemors.nowpublic.com/?p=12818

Cygnus Studios

Here is a great resource.
Keep in mind that the law is not written to protect people who operate within the law.
Every state and community can change or interpret their laws at their discretion.
As I stated earlier, just because your activity is legal doesn't mean that you are free from harm. You could spend hours in jail explaining your "legal rights" to the local police.
You could easily pay thousands of dollars to your lawyer to defend your "legal rights" to the judge also.

It was and is perfectly legal for McDonalds to serve Hot coffee, yet this did not stop a woman from suing them for spilling hot coffee on herself.

As sad as it is, people today know that the odds of getting money with lawsuits are better than playing the lottery. Right, wrong or otherwise it is far better to protect yourself.

I suggest that you spend the money and sit down with a good attorney discussing not only your legal rights, but your liabilities also. Very good liability insurance is also a necessary investment.