Wedding photos ruined :-(

Markjay

Wedding photos ruined by amateur photographer who was the replacement for me, because I asked 150.00

I was asked by a friend to photograph her friend wedding saying they had serious financial difficulties and would I do it for cheap. (I'm sure you've heard that before :-)

You know, don't really like doing weddings, because I was asked by a friend and under the circumstances....
We're only talking about a 7 person wedding, no reception, shooting outdoors in a park, with no prints, just digital files. I had nothing else to do that day, so I caved and said sure.

What do you know, two days before the wedding, the bride calls me and says: I'm sorry, I just don't have the money. We're only talking 150.00 but, her situation is what it is and I gracefully said no problem. Under normal circumstances, this would have been paid for in advance had it been anything meaningful.

So guess what happens?
A friend of the bride did the photographing for her with her Rebel XT she'd never even used yet... and here is the resulting email:

Hi Mark,

Can I ask you a question? I know you would probably be paid for this type of help, so if you don't want to give info for free I understand. (I get a lot of people asking for free herbal advice, and while I don't mind sharing information with my patients who come to me, it's not something I like to do without a thorough examination and interview, etc.)
Anyway, I took the pictures at the wedding this past Wednesday with the new Rebel XT. The came out pretty good for a first time user. However, when I took them home and resized them and cropped them, then took them to have them printed (at Walgreens), they were badly pixelated. I was in tears. I was the only one who was documenting this first time wedding for my friend and I had ruined their pics.

I went home and pulled the memory card and took it to Walgreens and did very little enhancement via their (very slow) computer. I had the pics printed again, and they were "ok" enough for 4 x 6 prints but that's it.


I checked the camera and it's on the highest resolution setting in terms of megapixels. The ISO is set at 100. I had the camera on auto (I didn't want to take the chance of having them not turn out at all, having not had much practice with the camera).

Is there something I forgot to set?

So, the poor bride and groom had their wedding photos ruined... their special day of happiness reduced to "pixelated 4 x 6 photos"... all for the love of saving 150.00

Sad story I'm sure it's not the first and I'm definitely sure it's not the last!!

Have a great night,
Markjay

Nikolai

Markjay,
sad story indeed...
They also call it "you get what you paid for". I do undesrtand finacial difficulties, but I also wouldn't expect a Lamborgini for the price of Geo.
What can I say.. They got what they paid for...

Markjay

Get what you paid for? :-)
You know, I've seen many exceptions to that rule of "get what you paid for". Many times consumers get much less than the paid for but, either are not aware of what is considered a good value for the product or service they are hiring for or, they have never had this product or service performed before and don't know good from bad... until it's too late.

Wedding photography is a prime example since many people are being married for the first time and have never hired a pro for this kind of work before. That being said, they may have seen other friends wedding pics and know that good pics or bad pics look like.

By no means am I at the level of pro wedding photographer that most of the pros on this site have achieved, for me, I usually pass the prospective job onto a "true wedding pro" and take on the simple ones again... I don't really like doing weddings. However, I always, always put in 100% and make my client happy!

This story is probably repeated all year round by countless couples who decide they don't need a "pro" because so and so has a digital camera ;-)

Markjay

Nikolai wrote:

Markjay,
sad story indeed...
They also call it "you get what you paid for". I do undesrtand finacial difficulties, but I also wouldn't expect a Lamborgini for the price of Geo.
What can I say.. They got what they paid for...

Nikolai

Markjay wrote:

You know, I've seen many exceptions to that rule of "get what you paid for". Many times consumers get much less than the paid for but, either are not aware of what is considered a good value for the product or service they are hiring for or, they have never had this product or service performed before and don't know good from bad... until it's too late.

Wedding photography is a prime example since many people are being married for the first time and have never hired a pro for this kind of work before. That being said, they may have seen other friends wedding pics and know that good pics or bad pics look like.

By no means am I at the level of pro wedding photographer that most of the pros on this site have achieved, for me, I usually pass the prospective job onto a "true wedding pro" and take on the simple ones again... I don't really like doing weddings. However, I always, always put in 100% and make my client happy!

This story is probably repeated all year round by countless couples who decide they don't need a "pro" because so and so has a digital camera ;-)

Markjay

They paid a bargain hoping to get decent pics. They didn't count in the risk factor. In the end the got babcus. The same thing can happen to each of us if we decide to get the latest 1Dx series body for $600 from some obscure ebay vendor as opposed to go to B&H and pay the full price. The difference? There was a chance they would get some decent pictures for $150. But this chance was *very* low, and naturally it didn't present itself.

Sam

Mark,

I have a completely different take on this. I don't see, (by your post) the couple trying to save a few dollars by being cheap. I see a financially strapped couple doing the best they can. They only had 7 people at a wedding in a park.

I don't see cheap here, I see reality. I could see it if they had agreed to say $2500 then at the last minute said never mind I have a photographer who will do it for $500.

I feel sad for the couple.

Please let your Rebel shooting herbalist know I am willing to take a look at the original files, and see if there is anything I can do to improve them. No cost of course.

Sam

Markjay

Thank you
I didn't see them as "cheap" when they told me they could not afford the 150.00 and I gracefully said no problem. Would have been nice had they let me know sooner then the day before the wedding but, that's life.

I already offered to see if I can help salvage the files but, it looks like instead of working off duplicates, she processed the original files. I think I can pull originals from her CF card using a "recovery" program so we're probably going at very least salvage her photos in whatever condition she created them, good or bad.

Thanks for your kindness and have a nice day.

Markjay

Sam wrote:

Mark,

I have a completely different take on this. I don't see, (by your post) the couple trying to save a few dollars by being cheap. I see a financially strapped couple doing the best they can. They only had 7 people at a wedding in a park.

I don't see cheap here, I see reality. I could see it if they had agreed to say $2500 then at the last minute said never mind I have a photographer who will do it for $500.

I feel sad for the couple.

Please let your Rebel shooting herbalist know I am willing to take a look at the original files, and see if there is anything I can do to improve them. No cost of course.

Sam

Sam

Markjay wrote:

I didn't see them as "cheap" when they told me they could not afford the 150.00 and I gracefully said no problem. Would have been nice had they let me know sooner then the day before the wedding but, that's life.

I already offered to see if I can help salvage the files but, it looks like instead of working off duplicates, she processed the original files. I think I can pull originals from her CF card using a "recovery" program so we're probably going at very least salvage her photos in whatever condition she created them, good or bad.

Thanks for your kindness and have a nice day.

Markjay

I can see how you might be a little put off by the short notice, and it is very nice of you try and salvage some images for them.

I am sending you 6.3 karma points.

Sam

JohnBiggs

If she processed files directly on the card then there is little hope. If all she did was move the files to the computer, then process them, No Problem.

I have professional recovery software and I recover files professionally. (Another one of these thing that you get what you pay for.) You can mail me the card and I'll give it a good workover.

John

JDrake

editing software might be able to help you enlarge the images enough to make some bigger prints.... something like this maybe? http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/genuine_fractals.php

Just an idea that might help...

rsparts

I don't know you and I won't assume to understand your way of thinking but had it been me, I probably would have done it for free had she said she couldn't afford it. You said yourself you didn't have anything else going on and really - what's $150? If you agreed to do it for that cheap, I don't know why free would have been any different but again, I don't know your situation. I'm not trying to come off like a jackass but it seems to me that people should help people out. If it came down to a nice couple having some decent wedding photos or not having anything at all, I guess the soft side of me comes out and I feel bad enough to do it for nothing.

That's just me...I don't know

I will say this, it was nice of you to take a look at the photos afterwards. At least you tried to help

JohnBiggs

rsparts wrote:

I don't know you and I won't assume to understand your way of thinking but had it been me, I probably would have done it for free had she said she couldn't afford it. You said yourself you didn't have anything else going on and really - what's $150? If you agreed to do it for that cheap, I don't know why free would have been any different but again, I don't know your situation. I'm not trying to come off like a jackass but it seems to me that people should help people out. If it came down to a nice couple having some decent wedding photos or not having anything at all, I guess the soft side of me comes out and I feel bad enough to do it for nothing.

That's just me...I don't know

I will say this, it was nice of you to take a look at the photos afterwards. At least you tried to help

Friends asside you devalue your brand by doing this. If I was going to photograph a wedding for friends or family I'd still charge. One, I'd be missing the opportunity to see my friends/family get married. And two, I'd be working my ass off. Sure, I'd give them a discount.

Wachel

JohnBiggs wrote:

Friends asside you devalue your brand by doing this. If I was going to photograph a wedding for friends or family I'd still charge. One, I'd be missing the opportunity to see my friends/family get married. And two, I'd be working my ass off. Sure, I'd give them a discount.

I'm not a pro so take it for what it's worth.

I don't see helping out someone that is truly in need as de-valuing your brand. My religious views play into this for me saying that helping my fellow man is the right thing. Now, you can't always work for free but a deep discount or free, on occasion, is only going to help you later in life...or after.

I won't judge anyone either way but I can't personally see how helping someone who needs it is a bad thing...ever. And charging family...no way (unless I don't like them! )

To each their own and good luck in whatever someone chooses.

Ed911

His offer...
I guess there is another lesson to be learned here...educate our prospective clients about the differences between the guy next door with and expensive SLR and a true professional photographer. It would be nice if the brides magazines showed before and after post processing in order to illustrate the difference between the raw image and the final product...of a professional photographer.

Markjay...you are a nice guy for offering to help after being dumped by the bride in favor of a free replacement.

Sam, same to you...for offering to look at them for nothing...award yourself an equal number of karma points...6.3 and while your at it...give John a couple for being willing to rescue the files if they needed it.

JohnBiggs

Wachel wrote:

I'm not a pro so take it for what it's worth.

I don't see helping out someone that is truly in need as de-valuing your brand. My religious views play into this for me saying that helping my fellow man is the right thing. Now, you can't always work for free but a deep discount or free, on occasion, is only going to help you later in life...or after.

I won't judge anyone either way but I can't personally see how helping someone who needs it is a bad thing...ever. And charging family...no way (unless I don't like them! )

To each their own and good luck in whatever someone chooses.

Well, I've been giving a lot to friends and family and it seems like recently most of my time is spent working for them, not spending time with them. It's a real burden after a while. I feel like a jerk for telling them to pay too, but on the other hand shouldn't I expect my friends and family to help me out too by paying for the services my business offers?

When my brother was running for a local government position, I helped him with donations and time. It was essentially his business and I paid him. I start a photography business and instead of anyone helping me out they want me to do free pictures. There has to be a balance or a line where enough is enough.

urbanaries

JohnBiggs wrote:

Well, I've been giving a lot to friends and family and it seems like recently most of my time is spent working for them, not spending time with them. It's a real burden after a while. I feel like a jerk for telling them to pay too, but on the other hand shouldn't I expect my friends and family to help me out too by paying for the services my business offers?

When my brother was running for a local government position, I helped him with donations and time. It was essentially his business and I paid him. I start a photography business and instead of anyone helping me out they want me to do free pictures. There has to be a balance or a line where enough is enough.

I have struggled with this as well. The four times I have quoted a deeply discounted (70% off) wedding package to family friends and/or relatives for weddings (all of which were on very limited budgets) one scoffed and had someone "with a good camera" do it for free, two had someone in their family step up and hire a "real photographer instead" (can you say insulting??) and the fourth (struggling young couple) wants me to hold the date without a deposit, yet are booking large venues and caterers instead of the "backyard" wedding they told me they were having initially.

I'm sorry, but in my experience, they don't appreciate the discount, they just use the money you saved them to upgrade other places. Or, discounting devalues the product so much it is no longer desireable. I have found no win-win scenario..batting 0 for 4.

I am a single mom and everyone who knows me know that this is a very important source of income for me. And of course, if I book their date I can't book another paying client. None of that matters when they think that since they know you, they can "get a deal." Sorry for the cynicism, but I don't feel like the good karma is always worth it when you're talking about placing a value on ~40 hours of time total away from my son.

Nikolai

It's the same old tune... As my friend Asher says, "he who buys a flute owns a flute; he who buys a camera is a photographer"
Friends/family discounts do not work. Just like you shall never just drop the price without adjusting the deliverables, same goes here. "Yes, I can do it cheaper, but I won't spend anytime on culling or postprocessing, so you'll be left alone with 1,500 raw files that would boggle down your measly laptop and you won't even be able to see them without spending $600 on CS4 or $300 on LR2 first"

mercphoto

Nikolai wrote:

It's the same old tune... As my friend Asher says, "he who buys a flute owns a flute; he who buys a camera is a photographer"

I mean, Ashton Kutcher is an awesome photographer and all he did was buy a Nikon, right? Notice that Fender never advertises that if you simply buy their guitar you'll play like Clapton? It seems universally understand that playing a musical instrument takes time and practice and discipline, but getting good photos is simply a matter of buying the correct camera.

Wachel

JohnBiggs wrote:

Well, I've been giving a lot to friends and family and it seems like recently most of my time is spent working for them, not spending time with them. It's a real burden after a while. I feel like a jerk for telling them to pay too, but on the other hand shouldn't I expect my friends and family to help me out too by paying for the services my business offers?

When my brother was running for a local government position, I helped him with donations and time. It was essentially his business and I paid him. I start a photography business and instead of anyone helping me out they want me to do free pictures. There has to be a balance or a line where enough is enough.

I see what you are saying 100%. Like I stated though...TRULY in need is the key for me. A pro can't work for free all the time so you do have to draw the line somewhere.

As far as family goes. If a person's family is going to take advantage of your talents then that can become a problem. That is a tough call and each person would have to decide for themselves what the right choice is.

I know how I would do things but everyone's situation is different.

catspaw

Nikolai wrote:

Friends/family discounts do not work. Just like you shall never just drop the price without adjusting the deliverables, same goes here. "Yes, I can do it cheaper, but I won't spend anytime on culling or postprocessing, so you'll be left alone with 1,500 raw files that would boggle down your measly laptop and you won't even be able to see them without spending $600 on CS4 or $300 on LR2 first"

ha! so very well said. I'm in something of a similar bind, as I did wedding photos for two of my four best friends (we're talking 15+ years type of thing here). However, that was back in the print days and the photos/my time were considered part of the 'wedding gift', as I just handed over the rolls afterwards and gave it all to them.

Since then, I've obviously upgraded and have my own (if small) business in photography and am actively investing in developing my own skills.

Which comes to the third friend and her wedding next October. I'd love to just give them the RAW files and say 'here you go, enjoy!' and walk away. But I can't, or rather WON'T. Guilt, you know. bloody pesky emotion. Well, I have 10 months to figure out if I'm giving them another gift as well as the photography time/files, if I'm giving them files of just the best and loading the rest onto smugmug where they can buy the suckers (or rather mommy can), or .... what.

angevin1

All it took to get me going here was the Karma thing. Karma, as all life and energy is a two way street. Being un-kind to oneself is the same as being un-kind to another. So good karma naturally includes being good to yourself and to others. Being good to others at your expense is not good Karma, and you will not be rewarded for it. In fact, you send a message out there to send you more of the same.

I think what the OP and others offered was good karma and perhaps chivalrous.

I am also reminded of what a fellow business owner told me once. He said: "Your friends have to do business with you because your enemies surely won't."

I would suggest that each situaiton like these mentioned are unique in their own ways. Our challenge is to find the correct way to answer those challenges for ourselves.

Cheers, tom

Cygnus Studios

Let me first say, that I believe that you have gone above and beyond for this couple, and no matter the outcome, you all have learned from the experience.

When I have people suggest to me that a good camera will make a good photographer, I simply explain to them that I am able to install a toilet. Yet in no way does that make me a plumber. It usually gets the point across.

achambers

My first reply when a friend or family asks me to take pictures is "You can't afford me." When the laughter dies I usually give them my rate, no laughter here. I will then tell them the F&F rate which no one has quibbled with.

Nikolai

Cygnus Studios wrote:

When I have people suggest to me that a good camera will make a good photographer, I simply explain to them that I am able to install a toilet. Yet in no way does that make me a plumber. It usually gets the point across.

OK, this one is good! Let's start a collection of similar analogies to help to "get the point across". I already mentioned my friend's "flute and camera" one. How about some others, so we all have a choice and/or variety?

I'll start:

• I can write/type a few words and I have a computer/typewrite/pen, but I'm not a Shakespeare/Faulkner/etc.
• I can drive, but I'm not Mario Andretti (or any other famous NASCAR driver, I just happen to know Mario;-)
• I have some really nice pots and pans in my kitchen, but I'm not Paul Prudhomme (or your favorite chef's name here)
• I have a decent guitar and can play it, but I'm not Sting/Segovia/Santana/etc.

What's yours?

Moogle Pepper

I have a degree, does that mean I can do neurosurgery now?