Anyone using netbooks?

Richard

A number of manufacturers (Asus, Acer and others) have released very small and cheap ($350-$500) laptops. Several of these have 160GB drives, which made me think that they might be a good solution for storing pics and having net access while travelling. My main concern would be fragility. Has anyone tried any of these?
:ear

kts

I have a few trips lined up over the next year and I'm likely going to pick one up.

I like to travel light and was debating about trying to travel with just an iTouch and a device to copy/backup my memory cards. However I can get a netbook for less of the cost and have a full blown laptop.

I tried one in a local store (Acer Aspire) and it seemed like a nice little laptop. They keyboard was fine for me, I didn't like the layout of the touchpad and buttons on it but I can live with it.

I'm debating about putting Mac OSX on it since they use the same chipsets as the Macbooks it a pretty easy install on the Dell Mini 9 and the MSI Wind. The Acer is can be done but to get wireless you'll need to replace the wireless card with a different card that is supported by Mac OSX ($20)

http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2008/10/13519/

Probably a bit more reliable and less hassle to just keep Windows on there.

If only it had a CF card reader built in too...

nightowlcat

I tried one out in the store and maybe it was the angle of the shelf it was locked on, but my typing suffered on it, but at home I use a Microsoft Natural ergonomic keyboard. They do look like a viable alternative though, and with one of these http://www.i-rocksusa.com/products/IR-8100.html you'd have a pretty good rig.

grapejape

Richard wrote:

A number of manufacturers (Asus, Acer and others) have released very small and cheap ($350-$500) laptops. Several of these have 160GB drives, which made me think that they might be a good solution for storing pics and having net access while travelling. My main concern would be fragility. Has anyone tried any of these?

I just left Costco, and they had an Acer and an HP model - both very nice looking little doo dads. The HP was $440 (I think) and had WINXP and wireless ethernet.


- Jason

Richard

The ones I was looking at had the Intel Atom CPU, which is a single core CPU with a speed ranging from .8 to 1.86 GHz, depending on the model. They all had 802.1 G wireless, 1 GB RAM, ran Linux or WinXP and weighed around 2 to 3 lbs. Considering they cost quite a bit less than, say, the Epson P-5000, have nearly twice the storage, a larger screen and are real computers, they sound like a pretty good deal. I would just like to hear some real-world experience.

Scott_Quier

This might be a cool solution - especially for travel (at least where power was available to recharge the batteries). You could load up something like ZoomBrowswer EX (Canon software) to view the RAW files after they've been uploaded to the netbook.

But, I'm with Richard - would love to hear about other's experiences before adopting one of these machines.

kts

I'm most likely going to be picking one up in the next week or so, I'll report back once I have some time on it, since like Richard said it's a heck of a lot less than an Epson P-5000 (and a better and cheaper solution than my P-5000 + iTouch plan for my travels.)

i_worship_the_King

The one that has not been mentioned is the Lenovo Ideapad S10. To me it has much better specs, and the keyboard layout lets the keys be a touch larger - closer to a regular notebook size.

Plus they've had employee coupons floating around slickdeals.net to get them for $380 . Hoping to pick one up after christmas....

They two that get my attention (in the windows-installed category) are the HP mini 1000, and the S10. Here's why I prefer the S10:

Faster hard drive (5400 RPM instead of typical 4200)
ExpressCard slot (Expresscard CF readers are significantly faster than USB, pair with the faster hard drive.)
Mouse buttons are where they should be, below the pad not on it's sides.
VGA out - no need for adapter
Hole for Kensington cable locks. I use these in hotels...

Review: http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/lenovo-s10.aspx?page=1
The review tests a slew of these, get some information...

jeffreaux2

I saw one last weekend(Ithink) in a sale paper that used solid state drives. That is really just flash memory in place of a hard drive. These are super fast....especially compared to a paltry 5400RPM hard drive......and they also have no moving parts.

My opinion is that if you are comparing it to the Epson storage device it is a much better buy. Can't check email on the epson! It would be fun to have at an event as well.....set up in a corner of the room and connected to a projector to display photos as the cards are unloaded.

Richard

jeffreaux2 wrote:

I saw one last weekend(Ithink) in a sale paper that used solid state drives. That is really just flash memory in place of a hard drive. These are super fast....especially compared to a paltry 5400RPM hard drive......and they also have no moving parts.

Many of them have only solid state drives, but the low capacity (16-64 GB) makes these models unsuitable for mass photo storage--and also more expensive. Don't forget that some of the storage will be used by the operating system and whatever applications you need. It does reduce weight and power consumption, though, and they are peppier, as Jeff said. Still, I would be more interested in an old-fashioned, slower but larger hard disk.

i_worship_the_King

The IT world still has not committed to the solid state bandwagon just yet. It hasn't been field tested, and it's not (yes, NOT) faster on large read or write requests. Faster than a 4200RPM drive, but certainly not faster than a 7200RPM drive which can easily be had as an upgrade for a netbook (at the cost of space.) Random read/write, however, (such as browsing the net, viewing a folder of thumbnails, etc.) will be significantly faster on a solid state.

As will all things, there are trade-offs. Solid state wins in random I/O. Slower drives win in capacity. I would still use 7200 RPM drives in everything except a new desktop. There I would spring for dual 36GB 10000RPM RAID0 boot drives, a 16 or 32GB solid state for a scratch disk, and a RAID10 7200RPM storage system most likely filled with Seagate 1.5TB drives (or 1TB to save.)

jeffreaux2

Richard wrote:

Many of them have only solid state drives, but the low capacity (16-64 GB) makes these models unsuitable for mass photo storage--and also more expensive. Don't forget that some of the storage will be used by the operating system and whatever applications you need. It does reduce weight and power consumption, though, and they are peppier, as Jeff said. Still, I would be more interested in an old-fashioned, slower but larger hard disk.

coupled with an external hard drive it wouldn't be that bad. You would eventually want to move the files to where they could be accessed by your desktop at home.....and that part of it would be done....on the external drive.

Elaine

My husband's been looking at the Lenovo. I'm curious to hear of anyone's experience with one. We'll be in Alaska for two weeks at Christmas and I'll need somewhere to store my photos. Sounds pretty handy...

Kalrog

I got one for my son (he is 6) as a first computer because it would be easy for him to carry and easier to type on with the keyboard that more closely fits his hands than a full sized version. I intend to get myself one now for just this reason. Backup CF cards on trips and do some minor photo editing (doesn't have the power to do full blown editing all the time though). I use Linux - I would probably just use digiKam for my photo editing needs, but I might add GIMP as well, just in case.

kts

i_worship_the_King wrote:

The one that has not been mentioned is the Lenovo Ideapad S10. To me it has much better specs, and the keyboard layout lets the keys be a touch larger - closer to a regular notebook size.

Plus they've had employee coupons floating around slickdeals.net to get them for $380 . Hoping to pick one up after christmas....

They two that get my attention (in the windows-installed category) are the HP mini 1000, and the S10. Here's why I prefer the S10:

Faster hard drive (5400 RPM instead of typical 4200)
ExpressCard slot (Expresscard CF readers are significantly faster than USB, pair with the faster hard drive.)
Mouse buttons are where they should be, below the pad not on it's sides.
VGA out - no need for adapter
Hole for Kensington cable locks. I use these in hotels...

Review: http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/lenovo-s10.aspx?page=1
The review tests a slew of these, get some information...

THANK YOU for posting about the lenovo. i like the touchpad setup better, like the slightly larger screen, and i love that it has an ExpressCard slot so i can get a CF reader to install in it and i'm not lugging a USB CF reader along as well. the cable lock hole is nice too

i think this moved up to the top of the list.

wonder what chipset it has and how easy it will be to install Mac OSX on it.

i_worship_the_King

One last comment and I'll shut up....

The Atom processor is Intel's baby. The chipset and all accompanying wares are highly controlled by Intel. There are a few things OSX might not like, but they're add-ons, like wireless adapters. Atom is a full-blown x86 processor, just a lot slower - no reason it shouldn't load without hitch.

Lastly, the S10 has the ExpressCard slot. I can't reiterate how important this is for any external application. If you take along an external hard drive solution you can pop in an eSATA card into the EC slot and copy at 10x the speed of USB - same goes for getting that data off your CF cards. If you're like me I have a CF reader than permanently lives in my laptop expansion just to take a peek in the field without having to carry anything extra.

Oh, and if you want to upload to smuggy from the field ExpressCard modems sit almost flush to the body, nothing poking out to get broken off like a USB equivalent. All this comes with Lenovo super-duper support. Call with a problem and talk to someone in Atlanta (east coast). They speak perfect english, don't have to follow the traditional scripts, and I've never waited over 5 minutes to talk to a human. Compare that to Dell (India, HA), HP (did you try rebooting? YES, HAVE I MENTIONED I DO THIS FOR A LIVING?) or Acer and it's just not the same.

Also Lenovo has already mentioned 6-cell batteries and embedded cell modems are on the way, along with the Atom x2.

Richard

i_worship_the_King wrote:

One last comment and I'll shut up....

The Atom processor is Intel's baby. The chipset and all accompanying wares are highly controlled by Intel. There are a few things OSX might not like, but they're add-ons, like wireless adapters. Atom is a full-blown x86 processor, just a lot slower - no reason it shouldn't load without hitch.

Lastly, the S10 has the ExpressCard slot. I can't reiterate how important this is for any external application. If you take along an external hard drive solution you can pop in an eSATA card into the EC slot and copy at 10x the speed of USB - same goes for getting that data off your CF cards. If you're like me I have a CF reader than permanently lives in my laptop expansion just to take a peek in the field without having to carry anything extra.

Oh, and if you want to upload to smuggy from the field ExpressCard modems sit almost flush to the body, nothing poking out to get broken off like a USB equivalent. All this comes with Lenovo super-duper support. Call with a problem and talk to someone in Atlanta (east coast). They speak perfect english, don't have to follow the traditional scripts, and I've never waited over 5 minutes to talk to a human. Compare that to Dell (India, HA), HP (did you try rebooting? YES, HAVE I MENTIONED I DO THIS FOR A LIVING?) or Acer and it's just not the same.

Also Lenovo has already mentioned 6-cell batteries and embedded cell modems are on the way, along with the Atom x2.

I am quite satisfied with my Lenovo ThinkPad T61. How is the build quality of the S10? At that price and weight, it can't be like a ThinkPad.

i_worship_the_King

I'm still rockin' the T42p. Thing is a tank... and I think that totals up to around 7 or 8 thinkpads still going in the household (all the way back to the P3 era!)...

True, the Ideapads are NOT thinkpads. The closest thing in the thinkpad line would be the X series, and entry starts around $1200. No magnesium alloy case, no steel chasis, no accelerometer, no thinklight - but the same engineering.

The netbook category is really about stripping a laptop down to it's tinyiest and lightest form. Other manufacturers have taken it too far in my opinion, leaving nothing but a few USB ports, or heaven forbid freaking apple - their 'air' is just absolute crap - who buys a laptop without a replacable battery and no ports on the outside? I think that Lenovo is finding the happy medium here, they've trimmed out the hardware that makes ThinkPads tough and reliable to trim weight, but still included the EC, VGA out (no adapter needed), and plenty of ports to make it a real machine.

For me the argument ends when you look at the support you're going to get down the line. Inevitably something eventually breaks. Maybe a kid on the train bumps it a breaks a USB port or who knows what, and it's then that the Lenovo should set it self away from the pack. However at this price point ($367.08 as of a few minutes ago) and knowing the Atom x2 is just around the corner I'm thinking of just taking the risk on the 1 year warranty and upgrading if I break it, it's cheaper than most MP3 players... Or up to 2 year warranty for $50 more.

Use code USPTS10 for 10% off to get the $368 price. I have seen one day sales get it down in the $330 range though.

(Btw, I just checked the clock - it's not 10AM here on the eastern USA More replies will have to wait until after lunch.)

kts

i_worship_the_King wrote:

The Atom processor is Intel's baby. The chipset and all accompanying wares are highly controlled by Intel. There are a few things OSX might not like, but they're add-ons, like wireless adapters. Atom is a full-blown x86 processor, just a lot slower - no reason it shouldn't load without hitch.

OSX works on the Dell Mini 9 and MSI Wind with only a few minor tweeks (and there are some slipstreamed DVDs of OSX out there to make this a breeze) a few of the others, like the Acer work pretty well if you replace the wireless card with one that's supported (~$20) a few things still don't work but none of them are dealbreakers for me.

i_worship_the_King wrote:

All this comes with Lenovo super-duper support. Call with a problem and talk to someone in Atlanta (east coast). They speak perfect english, don't have to follow the traditional scripts, and I've never waited over 5 minutes to talk to a human. Compare that to Dell (India, HA), HP (did you try rebooting? YES, HAVE I MENTIONED I DO THIS FOR A LIVING?) or Acer and it's just not the same.

That's really surprising (and awesome) about Lenovo's support. I had been wary of them since IBM sold the systems stuff off to Lenovo, I guess mostly since I know too many government people and contactors who had to get rid of their work Thinkpads since they were no longer allowed to be used.

i_worship_the_King

Just a quick update. I have had a hands-on with the HP mininote, EEE 10000H, Acer One, and Lenovo S10 thanks to a friend in Costco and an S10 purchase by a housemate. Just a quick run down I was looking at speed, screen and keyboard layout.

In the informal tests the Lenovo was a *tad* faster, but it had the 1GB of RAM instead of the 512 of most of the pack. This was noticible mostly during bootup and during the HD video test.

During the photoshop test they all looked great and handled any editing I did to them in stride (NOTE: I was using version CS2.) The atom processor had a LOT more pep than I ever imagined.

HD video was smooth on internal screen and to external HDTV. A note, however. The power saving of the Atom comes from a TON of stepping. Changing from nothing to rendering HD video causes ~1.5 second delay. After the first little glitch it ran like a champ. I was using a downloaded HD video from the WMVHD test page. Quicktime was not yet installed although I had a QTHD file on hand.

All in all these a basically the same hardware rebadged 5 times. Nod to the Lenovo for keyboard, mouse layout, external monitor plug, and the all important express card slot. Nod to HP for aesthetics - the shiny black was nice, but maybe not so great on fingerprints. Loss of point to the Acer as I despise their 'slick' mouse. Some people like it, I can't stand it. Loss of points to a lot of them for no external monitor plug. I would be using this as a presentation computer also and it's just a basic necessity - and it streamlines hooking up to most modern LCD TV's.

Hope this helps anyone sitting on the fence. Just a note Lenovo has $329 coupons out for the 512MB model and $349 for the 1GB model. Sign up for their email list to get them.