Off camera flash question

divamum

Sorry if this is a really dumb question (which I fear it may be, but here goes...!):

If you use a TTL flash off-camera via an optical or radio slave does it retain any of its TTL capabilities, or does it just fire at full volume regardless of what the camera says/does?

TIA!

jeffreaux2

divamum wrote:

Sorry if this is a really dumb question (which I fear it may be, but here goes...!):

If you use a TTL flash off-camera via an optical or radio slave does it retain any of its TTL capabilities, or does it just fire at full volume regardless of what the camera says/does?

TIA!

Here's the deal.

Using radio transmitters you will have NO ETTL function on your camera flash.

Same goes for using a synch cord.


To retain ETTL....

-You can use the Canon off camera shoe coed(its made short for use on camera brackets)

-You can use the Canon STE2 transmitter....its infra red....it needs line of sight with the flash....the distance it can be used from the flash is limited. You should check to be sure it is compatable with the Model you own.

...and then there is the radio popper....

-This interfaces between the ste2 and the flash adding radio slave distances to ETTL funtionality. It is a realatively new product....and we are all waiting for "Urbanaries" to post her latest wedding series in which she used these for her first time.

ziggy53

divamum wrote:

Sorry if this is a really dumb question (which I fear it may be, but here goes...!):

If you use a TTL flash off-camera via an optical or radio slave does it retain any of its TTL capabilities, or does it just fire at full volume regardless of what the camera says/does?

TIA!

In order to retain TTL you need to use (Canon):

ST-E2, IR transmitter/master and a TTL slave-able flash.
A Canon 580EX or Sigma 5xx DG Super as master and a TTL slave-able flash.
A "RadioPopper" with one of the above to act as master and a TTL slave-able flash. The RadioPopper just relays the IR signals using radio technology.

An off-camera cord can move a flash a little bit away from the camera.

All other optical and radio master/slave configurations, that I'm aware of, only "trigger" the flash, but many flashes can be "manually" reduced in power.

Edit, or you could just listen to Jeff. (I wish I could type. )

jforbes

divamum wrote:

Sorry if this is a really dumb question (which I fear it may be, but here goes...!):

If you use a TTL flash off-camera via an optical or radio slave does it retain any of its TTL capabilities, or does it just fire at full volume regardless of what the camera says/does?

TIA!

There are multiple answers to your question.

Here's a radio transmitter with full ETTL support:
http://radiopopper.com/products/view/radiopopper_p1

Some radio controllers will work like a PC sync cable, IE, they will fire off a dumb flash at full power or whatever it might be set to, or if it's thyristor controlled or whatever other silly method there is to set the flash off.

In most cases, though, particularly when using an optical slave, you're not getting TTL flash - as long as there is no connection between the camera and flash (And, no, a PC cable does not count, it's just a trigger). To do TTL flash, the camera needs to communicate with the flash.


If you ware talking about using an on camera TTL flash and an optical slave off camera, and can get the optical slave to fire at the right time, TTL will work with the flash that's hooked up to the camera (either on the hotshoe or connected by the needed cable), but won't affect the optical slave's flash.

divamum

Thanks all! That totally answers the question, and also points me to the ste2, which I didn't know anything about before now.

More reading to do, I can see.... !

jeffreaux2

divamum wrote:

Thanks all! That totally answers the question, and also points me to the ste2, which I didn't know anything about before now.

More reading to do, I can see.... !

Double check to be sure it will work with your flash!:D

divamum

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Double check to be sure it will work with your flash!:D

Thanks Jeff - yes, according to what I read online tonight that transmitter does work with the 420ex it seems. Of course, since it's not an inexpensive solution I can't afford it just yet anyway, but that means I've got plenty of time to read up on it!

jeffreaux2

divamum wrote:

Thanks Jeff - yes, according to what I read online tonight that transmitter does work with the 420ex it seems. Of course, since it's not an inexpensive solution I can't afford it just yet anyway, but that means I've got plenty of time to read up on it!

Its VERY simple in operation. It takes a battery that is kept in stock at walmart....and any drug store....that's a plus. There is a button to choose which channel to use....1 through 4. A button to enable the ratio control. A button to enable high speed sych(yum). A pair of buttons to adjust the ratios....that is the ratio between one flash and another fired at the same time. And an on/off switch.

I have had a blast with mine. It has greatly improved my portraiture...and is handy with other things as well. It has truely opened up possibilities with flash that have changed the way I think and shoot.

Just a teaser....but here are a few shots that I have used it on....just to help bolster your desire...

divamum

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Its VERY simple in operation. It takes a battery that is kept in stock at walmart....and any drug store....that's a plus. There is a button to choose which channel to use....1 through 4. A button to enable the ratio control. A button to enable high speed sych(yum). A pair of buttons to adjust the ratios....that is the ratio between one flash and another fired at the same time. And an on/off switch.

I have had a blast with mine. It has greatly improved my portraiture...and is handy with other things as well. It has truely opened up possibilities with flash that have changed the way I think and shoot.

Just a teaser....but here are a few shots that I have used it on....just to help bolster your desire...

I may officially have to start hating you.... (gorgeous shots, as always! Especially love the back view of the violinist performing - that's an AWESOME shot)

Desire isn't the problem here (can't you hear the drool running down my chin as I start to ask about this?!), merely FUNDS. Like everybody, having to guard pennies supercarefully these days (hoping for the best, but planning for the worst - I'd rather find out I've been over-frugal without cause than the other way around!) But I digress.

Another question: do you know if the ST can set the ratios for a flash like the 420ex which is usually only controlled by the camera, ie I adjust its output using fec? THAT would be a sweeeeeettttt!

Even if it can't do that... I officially want one :D

jeffreaux2

divamum wrote:

I may officially have to start hating you.... (gorgeous shots, as always! Especially love the back view of the violinist performing - that's an AWESOME shot)

Desire isn't the problem here (can't you hear the drool running down my chin as I start to ask about this?!), merely FUNDS. Like everybody, having to guard pennies supercarefully these days (hoping for the best, but planning for the worst - I'd rather find out I've been over-frugal without cause than the other way around!) But I digress.

Another question: do you know if the ST can set the ratios for a flash like the 420ex which is usually only controlled by the camera, ie I adjust its output using fec? THAT would be a sweeeeeettttt!

Even if it can't do that... I officially want one :D

No it cannot do that.

To control FEC, you can still do it in camera with STE2 in operation. You can also control FEC at the wheel on the flash as in the case of the 580EX. I am pretty sure that the camera setting overides anything at the flash but I may be wrong there.

To use ratio control, I set one flash as a slave, say channel one group "A". The other as a slave on channel one group"B". Now if I set the STE2 to channel one and snap the shutter, both flash units will fire. The ratio control will allow me to make a correct exposure but alter the balance of power from each speedlight....or between group a and b. This is VERY useful and is totally controlled at the ste2.

All of the shots above used a single flash unit with the exception of two. Those are the shot of the beer (which won me the "overflowing" challenge on another forum), and the shot of my daughter doing homework(also a challenge entry...but not on dgrin). In the homework shot I used a flash lying flat and out of sight(yes indoors you can sometimes get the ste2 to operate out of line of sight...around corners etc.) The keyboard flash is aimed at the laptop screen which I covered with a sheet of printer paper.....to light her face. A second flash was set up at camera right...and low, but bounced off the ceiling. The second flash...set to the lowest end of the ratio(1:8) is providing the very subtle pool of light surrounding her. It was a fun shot and my first using two flash units.

The violinist shot was during a concert at my church. I was using a single 580EXII and the STE2 to grab shots during the concert. In this shot, the flash was on my freestanding monopod sitting atop one of the large speakers a ways off and to the left of the musician offstage...on the floor. I grabbed this shot from one of the stage entrances....backstage. The rim light in that shot is sweet indeed.

I hear you on the funding. I need to scrape up enough for a 50mm F1.4 prime lens and a new camera body between now and April....and I still havent paid my savings account back for my 70-200 F2.8IS purchase. I am also wanting to get a single lightstand and umbrella set up. That is about $1600 worth....after I am square with my $1600 lens purchase. I have put my gear together in bits and pieces. I do just enough paid work that the gear pays its own way. The beauty of it is that I will eventually be satisfied with my accessory collection and will then only be replacing a body every two years or so. It will be a less expensive hobby to maintain at that point. I hope!

jeffreaux2

FWIW,

I just searched around a bit for a used STE2 on the net and came up with one at Fm forums.

If it indeed works its a steal at $125 and there is also a link to get a replacement for the missing cover($9). Here is the link...
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/714879

Ebay was of no use....at least right now.


You don't see these for sale used that often. You would think that the folks who complain about the lack in ability to shoot long distance or around corners would sell them off, but in reality they work as advertised by Canon and even those who "say" they don't work well hang on to them.

pathfinder

I carry an ST-E2 in my camera bag anytime I think I might use flash, which is almost all the time.

The red lens covers do fall off the ST-E2 sometimes - mine did.

When I got a replacement from Canon, I put a drop of Crazy Glue on it for security.
The red lens is available from Canon Factory Service. $9 sounds about like what i paid a couple years ago.

You're right Jeff, for the folks who complain about the ST-E2 not always working ( and it does not sometimes out of doors or even indoors over 25 feet away ) you almost never see used ones for sale. What's up with that??:D The best price online for new I have seen is about $225 on Amazon

In a small room, they will shoot around the corners like Jeff showed with his daughter at her computer. Great series of shots demonstrating just how nice OCF ( off camera flash - I just invented a new mnemonic !!) can be!!

You can use aluminum foil as a reflector to direct the IR beam in a specific direction for a small increase in range. I find this helpful out of doors at times. The two red lens - on the ST-E2 and the flash - have to be able to see each other. You can use a Canon off camera flash cord to alow the ST-E2 to point more directly at an off camera flash also.

The new ( not yet out ) generation of Radio Poppers make finally be what we are all hoping for.

cmason

By the way, despite what people say, I have had great luck using the STE2 outside. Here is a sample of an outdoor portrait. Notice that the flash on the right is completely hidden from view of the camera mounted STE2, yet it still fires. It may be the reflector is helping, but I have not run into a situation where it hasnt worked for me.

(like my lightstand on the left? )

jeffreaux2

And lets not forget....

Using the STE2 to do natural light photographs without flash has it's benifits as well. The STE2's focus assist is out of this world for helping the camera to achieve focus in otherwise impossible situations.

We had all forgotten to mention that very important fact.