Should I continue?

Matt336

A few things to note:

1-I just started taking photos for the college I am attending (I've covered 2 games so far).

2-I like the experience as I can shoot the games (doing hockey for now) from anywhere I want except for being on the bench.

3-The college says they assume all rights to my photos and I am not to post them online/use them in any way.

4-This job is currently non-paying as all the paid positions are filled for the fiscal year (August is the beginning of the next fiscal year). I could possibly get a paying position in August but it would be mininal pay.


What I am trying to figure out is this: is the access really worth it? I do enjoy taking the photos, but what is the point if I cannot use them? I've shot for a magazine, newspaper, and my previous college and I kept the rights to the photos. I am not in the business to become a pro so it is not like I need the access, I started taking them simply for the fun of it and I had the chance to do it. I was not told I couldn't use them/post them until I showed up for the first game. I did not sign a contract or anything like that, it was basically a verbal "do not do this, this, or this" type of thing. Maybe I should just chance it and post them up anyway?:wink Just kidding. How do you guys feel about this? If you were in this position, would you continue shooting?

Matt

norcalshooter

Non-paying, no contract. I say use them however you like.
Im assuming you are digital and they dont pay for your film if not, or equipment?

I shot for my college newspaper for 4+ years, 2 as photo editor.
All the pics were mine and I often sold prints at my selected price, with all funds going to me.

If the access is all you want, try getting on the school paper as a shooter.
Our paper started paying writers $75 per story, as image editor I demanded the same for my shooters.
We got $75 per assignment if it was published, but my photogs still owned their rights, there was no contract.

Matt336 wrote:

A few things to note:

1-I just started taking photos for the college I am attending (I've covered 2 games so far).

2-I like the experience as I can shoot the games (doing hockey for now) from anywhere I want except for being on the bench.

3-The college says they assume all rights to my photos and I am not to post them online/use them in any way.

4-This job is currently non-paying as all the paid positions are filled for the fiscal year (August is the beginning of the next fiscal year). I could possibly get a paying position in August but it would be mininal pay.


What I am trying to figure out is this: is the access really worth it? I do enjoy taking the photos, but what is the point if I cannot use them? I've shot for a magazine, newspaper, and my previous college and I kept the rights to the photos. I am not in the business to become a pro so it is not like I need the access, I started taking them simply for the fun of it and I had the chance to do it. I was not told I couldn't use them/post them until I showed up for the first game. I did not sign a contract or anything like that, it was basically a verbal "do not do this, this, or this" type of thing. Maybe I should just chance it and post them up anyway? Just kidding. How do you guys feel about this? If you were in this position, would you continue shooting?

Matt

Matt336

I pay for all my equipment, I receive nothing from them other than access. I think I'm just going to let them know that I do not want to continue shooting for them. I'll post a few of them up after talking to the publications editor.

norcalshooter

Matt336 wrote:

I pay for all my equipment, I receive nothing from them other than access. I think I'm just going to let them know that I do not want to continue shooting for them. I'll post a few of them up after talking to the publications editor.

I would negotiate your own use, and at the very least, credit in any publications they use them in.
Especially if it remains an unpaid gig. Good luck, try the college paper too. Had the time of my life working at mine.
Led to many side contract gigs, and great relationships I still have.

Matt336

I plan on bringing in the cd of photos on Tuesday or Wednesday, I'll have to see about being able to use my photos. The two school papers already have photographers at all the sporting events so no luck there.

ian408

You have an implied contract. While nothing was written down, you discussed what amounts to terms and conditions. In other words, you agreed that for access to various sports, you would give the school exclusive rights to your photos.

If you don't like the terms of your "contract", then the answer is clear. Stop shooting. On the other hand if you're not being paid, then why not go back and negotiate a better deal?

Perhaps you can make your case based upon the fact you are not being paid? You could make a case that your ability to sell some images would compensate for the lack of pay?

clemensphoto's

Another suggestion would to become a free lance photographer for a local newspaper. At least that way you could get creditials to be on the side line of the college games and keep all rights to your photos and possibly make money as well.

Grainbelt

Do they stipulate that you shoot every game? If not, go to the games you want, and keep it casual. On the other hand, you could start a blog, cover it (and yourself, and your gear) in the school logo, and contact Englestad directly for access.

Very nice hockey arena, I've seen a few games there. Unless you have access to other interesting places to shoot (beet piles, the alley behind the Red Pepper) it can't hurt to get some practice and watch the games.

--Mike
U of MN, '03

Angelo

the first question I have is: "What are you missing?"

How would you like, or intend, to use the photos that they are preventing you from doing?

Other than personal satisfaction, possible editorial use or selling prints as art pieces, you're inhibited from any other profiting without signed releases from the players (models) or property releases from the college (owners of the playing fields unless it's a public facility).

ian408

Angelo wrote:

... property releases from the college (owners of the playing fields unless it's a public facility).

Be careful. While a park or playing field may be publicly owned it does not mean you are exempt from obtaining a property release.

Angelo

ian408 wrote:

Be careful. While a park or playing field may be publicly owned it does not mean you are exempt from obtaining a property release.

true... I'm just trying to get to the root of his issue

Matt336

Grainbelt wrote:

Do they stipulate that you shoot every game? If not, go to the games you want, and keep it casual. On the other hand, you could start a blog, cover it (and yourself, and your gear) in the school logo, and contact Englestad directly for access.

I can shoot any game that I like. I didn't make it to his office today so I will most likely go there tomorrow with the photos. I will keep you updated.

Angelo wrote:

the first question I have is: "What are you missing?"

How would you like, or intend, to use the photos that they are preventing you from doing?

Other than personal satisfaction, possible editorial use or selling prints as art pieces, you're inhibited from any other profiting without signed releases from the players (models) or property releases from the college (owners of the playing fields unless it's a public facility).

I would like to be able to show my photos online so I can improve my work. I'd also like to be able to print them out to hang on the wall (I am sure I could do this anyway).

I do not plan to sell them to anyone, I am not set up to sell photos. I did started taking photos for them just for the fun/experience, but when I showed up and was told I do not have any rights for the photos, I was disappointed.

Angelo

Matt336 wrote:

I can shoot any game that I like. I didn't make it to his office today so I will most likely go there tomorrow with the photos. I will keep you updated.



I would like to be able to show my photos online so I can improve my work. I'd also like to be able to print them out to hang on the wall (I am sure I could do this anyway).

I do not plan to sell them to anyone, I am not set up to sell photos. I did started taking photos for them just for the fun/experience, but when I showed up and was told I do not have any rights for the photos, I was disappointed.

Well whether or not you have rights is yet to be determined so don't give up yet.

As for showing the images online, such as here at dGrin... I can't tell you what to do or what's right versus wrong but if I were you I'd do it, school be damned. You're not doing anything to harm the school or the players and in fact one could argue you're seeking advice in the best interest of the school to ensure all photos you snap are of the best possible technical and creative quality.

Tee Why

If you are doing this to build up a portfolio, I'd ask the editors if you can use the images for such a purpose only.

If you are also doing this for fun and it's fun, keep doing it. If not, stop doing it.

No matter what you do, be polite and professional. Do not burn bridges. If you want to stop, let them know in a very cordial way.

Good luck.

Matt336

Well I decided to just post them. If they will not reason with me tomorrow, I am finished shooting for them. Here they are.

Matt336

Well I got the go ahead to post them up on the internet!:D

Angelo

Matt336 wrote:

Well I got the go ahead to post them up on the internet!:D

atta boy