Career advice
yoyoma
Registered Users Posts: 77 Big grins
hey folks,
I'm about to take a big jump and move to LA to pursue photography and/or the film industry. I'd love to take a job as an assistant to an established photographer, or in some sort of photofinishing facility. I am basically going to have to cold call every single contact I can find when I arrive and hope something pans out. Has anyone been in this position? Does anyone have any stories about "breaking into the industry" they think might provide me some guidance? Does anyone have any suggestions on places I should look first? I'm grateful for any wisdom you can provide.
Before anyone says so I fully recognize the current state of the economy.
I'm about to take a big jump and move to LA to pursue photography and/or the film industry. I'd love to take a job as an assistant to an established photographer, or in some sort of photofinishing facility. I am basically going to have to cold call every single contact I can find when I arrive and hope something pans out. Has anyone been in this position? Does anyone have any stories about "breaking into the industry" they think might provide me some guidance? Does anyone have any suggestions on places I should look first? I'm grateful for any wisdom you can provide.
Before anyone says so I fully recognize the current state of the economy.
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You might "recognize" the state of the economy, but it doesn't sound like you really undstand it. Things are bad and they are going to get worse. And they will stay bad for a year or more.
If your dream is not to be delayed, then you should try making some of those cold calls over the phone - before arriving in LA. Simply showing up at someone's door and asking them if they want to hire you is probabley not the best way to handle this. You need to research potential employers, and see who might have openings.
The best way to land a job is from referrals. Do you have any business contacts or customers in the area? Do you have any friends in the area? (Your going to need to someplace to sleep) Do you have several different resumes created - one for each type of job you are going to be looking at? Do you have a different portfolio created for each of the different markets you will be pursuing? Have you had several people "in the industry" look at your resume(s) and portfolio(s) to tell you how to make them better? Do you have your references lined up?
There's a lot of prep work to do. Good luck to you.
I don't have any advice for you, but want to wish you luck in pursuing your career- talk to EVERYONE you meet, you never know who might know a friend of a friend of a photog who needs an assistant!
Movies are still being made, and will be made next year and the following. Stores will still advertise, magazines will still be printed, people will still get married, and the world will still turn.
There are still people out there who are thriving in this downturn, and you will have to focus on their needs.
Yes things will slow down as the economy weeds out the weak. If you do not have very strong business and marketing skills you could easily be chewed up and spit out.
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I cannot accept this world view and I think this sort of unified negativism about the economy is in part self-fulfilling. Basically, you sound like my mother. I am young, dedicated, talented, and intelligent. If this move leaves me anywhere other than dead in a ditch in 6 months then it will exceed the sort of doomsday scenarios that most people have been presenting to me.
As cygnus said, the world will still be turning.
Thanks very much for the positive words from all.
Caroline
i also work full time doing my photography. however, here the market is saturated; it does not matter if you are tallented and have good connections beause when there are too many choices for photographers and not enough jobs for everyone, what little work exists gets split and we all loose.
i have close contact with 3 of my closest competitors and we are all WAY down with this economy. it is not being negative, it is being realistic to the way things are right now.
Pro photography is a luxury good and will be cut as families have less money to spend. Pro photo may not be gold or a sports car but it is something people can do themselves with a point and shoot digital camera. Beacuse it is a luxury good, many potential clients are cutting the service and electing to have friends/family shoot thier weddings, graduations, parties, family photos, etc. cause they dont have the money for a pro.
this may be the case in LA it is a very large city and i can only assume it has a lot of photographers all bidding for the few jobs that do occour.
personally i would not want to relocate to a larger city and hope i found work when i got there as the work is probably not there. what ever your decision, be sure to do your homework and think this through otherwise the phrase "starving artist" comes to my mind.
good luck.
Digital Illusions Photography & Design
1764 Shawna Ct, Klamath Falls OR, 97603
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"The Race is long but in the end it is only with yourself" ~Unknown
I'm sorry, but I have to totally disagree. I have heard this same story in the coin business as well as the photography business. I have lived in small markets and large. In the end, business is business.
I could find hundreds, if not thousands of photographers here on Dgrin that take far better pics than I do, but I also could find thousands who do not have the business skills that I have.
The "talent" statement is told many times here in the business section, and sure it matters to a point, but it will never outweigh the business end.
Just last night I had a conversation with someone who had just been quoted $12,000 for a wedding. That photographer is booked constantly, and turns away work. Yet there are photographers here in the San Francisco area who would love to work a wedding at $1000.
I have seen this guys work. It is nice, but not $12,000 nice. Maybe he is one of the other "lucky" people, or maybe he knows something that the others do not.
The other statement thrown around is the economy. While it is not booming as it was a couple of years ago, there are still plenty of people making tons of money. Walmart is showing major profits. You can blame them for not paying their employees or whatever else you choose, but the fact will not change. They are making money.
I am right now booking jobs for late spring and early summer. Everyone can chalk this up to me being lucky, or maybe I just choose to deal with clients who are not in the bad economy mode.
Maybe the $70 family portrait market is in the toilet, I will be honest I don't know. But I can tell you that the $700 child portrait market is still going strong.
The store advertising market is still strong. The reference book market is still strong. The auto advertising market is still strong. The small product market is still strong. The food market is still strong.
I could go on and on. Now I am not under any disillusion that things are not as good as they were or even could be. But to jump on the bad economy bandwagon just for sake of it, it not doing anyone any good.
Yes, the OP should do his homework, and yes the OP should consider his move and all options before jumping in.
I have no idea if this person can make it or not. But to automatically state that it cannot be done is just plain wrong.
There are two sides in this economy. Those who gain and those who lose. Not a one of us know which side this person will be on until he makes the decision.
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business is business but right now business sucks.
Digital Illusions Photography & Design
1764 Shawna Ct, Klamath Falls OR, 97603
Email | Website | Blog | Facebook | MySpace |Newsletter | Subscribe
"The Race is long but in the end it is only with yourself" ~Unknown
Hollywood appears to be an unusual area because they may have more young people per capita than elsewhere.
Every waiter, gas station attendant, valet parker (one of the better paid of the group) is an actor or somebody trying to break in to the "business".
I checked the average actors equity union member income a few years ago; it was $2,000 per annum.
At the OPs age if he trips he's young enough to get up & run. Keep your expectations low, be flexible about your employment and don't think so much of your self.
That said, the women are hot & friendly, so there are some additional benefits (according to my son)
Good luck..
Rags
You sound like my mother"...That got me laughing.
Your mother is giving you sound advice, as are all of the others here. Both those that are giving you the thumbs up support that you want to hear, and those that are telling you the stuff you don't want to hear.
Did you forget to read my career advice in my original post? I did offer many sound suggestions for your job search. (Researching, targeted portfolios & resumes, references) Did any of those sound like good ideas to you? Are you thinking of doing any of those things to help you with your job search?
And here's another bit of career advice on your website: Remove those naked ladies. Your website needs to be VERY PROFESSIONAL during your job search. It shows you at your very best and tells the world a lot about the person you are. (Young guy, likes pretty girls, likes strip joints, hangs out at clubs, and likes guns & blood.)
Yes I know....I sound like your mother. But it's sound advice. I've hired 20+ people in my "other" job and believe me when I tell you that first impressions (your resume & your website) are used as ways to eliminate potential candidates from the job pool. For example, if I were hiring an assistant at a portrait studio that did weddings & family work I wouldn't even call you in for an interview. The nudes, strip joint and club shoots would lead me to believe that you are still too young and green and would be lacking in the professionalism that I would expect of my employees. Don't take the chance of giving ANY potential employers a reason to eliminate you from their list of potential candidates.
We all wish you well. Keep us posted on your adventure.
Now this I totally agree with. It only takes a single moment for people to make an impression, and this impression can be all the difference, no matter how good or talented you are.
What you choose to shoot is up to you, just keep in mind that you need to target the audience you want. A lot of pros like to shoot "art" outside of their mainstream business model. If that is what floats your boat, great. Make a seperate portfolio/website and have at it.
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I keep thinking what would have happened if the Pioneers never left the Midwest because their moms said there was nothing in California? Life is about taking chances and trying to enjoy every moment.
I did a quick look on Craigslist and there appear to be plenty of openings on the film and video board. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/tfr/ Remember...craigslist is your friend.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Doug and Cathy
www.goldenstarphoto.com
http://www.facebook.com/artist.goldenstarphoto?ref=hl
Yeah! Don't accept this kind of reality. You make your reality and your destiny too. It is as you said: Self fulfilling. So go for it. You're young, intelligent and whats to lose, the job you don't have? Can't lose that! So go for it! Have fun, make new friends and don't just cold call, go out there and get face to face!
cheers, tom
Well I say go for it. Like you said your young full of energy with nothing to lose. Chase your dream.
As to your comments about the economy worries being self fulfilling. Amen brother. I kills me when I hear people saying how they just can't afford to spend any money this christmas due to the economy. I ask them what changed, and the answer is nothing. They still have their job, they still receive the same paycheck, their bills have not gone up, and gas is much lower than a year ago. So what it really is, is fear. Not an actual impact that has effected them.
Now please before you kind folks flame away. I am not naive, I know the state of the economy. For those that have lost their livelihood. Of course things are scary and not looking good (and my heart goes out to you). For those that own small businesses that are suffering decreased revenue, of course they are nervous, and cutting back where ever possible.
What good does it do for the afore mentioned people if those that still have steady income close our wallets and refuse to get out and support the economy. It doesn't help it only makes it worse.
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Of course I understand it will be difficult, of course I am using my connections, of course I am sending out my resume, doing research, etc. etc.. One of the things I am doing is asking for advice from people who know the business (i.e. posting on this board). Don't assume I am Naive.
I hear your advice about the professionalism of the site. To be fair though, I don't know what naked ladies you are talking about. Anyone of my shots could be put on daytime network TV. I don't shoot strip clubs but I do shoot fashion shows and swimsuit calenders, and I would like that to be a part of my potential career. On the flip side of your point, I don't want to paint myself as someone who isn't 'edgy'; I am young, I do like pretty girls, I do like guns and blood, and I would love for that to be a part of my work. If I must be eliminated from any job pool its definitely the sacchrine one. And by the way, when I do shoot girls in revealing clothing, I am very professional and can provide references to corroborate.
As Cygnus said, however, perhaps I do need to set up two sites to maximize my presentation. I need more shots to fill out my portfolio, but don't we all. For now, I'd like to show as many sides to my work as possible and give myself some depth.
Thanks again for everyone's advice and goodwill.
Edit: I LOVE pretty girls.
I do accounting and I am a QuickBooks Consultant. I have about 45 active small business clients and many related to the Industry. Aside from my photography studio, which is next door to my accounting business.
I have a very well know commercial photographer as a client - his business is down substancially; My advertising agency client with 5 employees is laying them off next week. My friend, a Personal Assistant in The Industry is down over 50% in her work and her significant other is pending going on strike - he's in lighting; I have a few restaurants and their businesses are down 60%. My client who is a delivery company specific to the film industry is for sale because their biggest client was sold and his business is down 70%; My Chiropractor client is only down 25% and my attorney clients are down any where from 10% to 40% depending on the kind of law. I have a beauty salon client that closed her doors; My HR Consultant client is down 35%. Out of all of my clients - ONE of them has increased sales and it's a Bankruptcy attorney.
These are real hard numbers since I am closing the books and have spent the last two weeks crunching numbers (between delivering holiday Photos to my photo clients and Christmas Cards I've designed).
That said, my photography business is only a year old. My businesses are up because I am marketing it like crazy, I have a huge network and a lot of customer service and sales experience.
Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
http://flashfrozenphotography.com
On that personal note, my friends and family are not doing so well right now. Which is why my first advice to the OP was to keep a job if he had one. My bother-in-law and best friend's husband each just lost jobs that they had for 18 years. My cousin and neighbor each quit their jobs eariler in the year, due to family emergenceis, only to hit a wall when they went back into the job market. Each are now working 2-3 part time jobs to try and get back their lost salary, but they are still not making what they were eariler. Another neighbor recently landed a fulltime job and was able to dump his contract work, but once again the new job doesn't pay as well as the previous one. My head-hunter friend is S-O-L as contract placement work is now rare and jobs that used to pay $75 per hour are now going for $25 per hour. She's had to move from the 4,000 sq ft house to a 1,800 sq ft house and send her 19 & 20 yo kids to work (no college for now) to help pay the bills. My sister (with the out of work husband) works at the local university and they are facing a 13% budget reduction, so she's not sure if she's going to have a job come July when the new budget goes into affect.
Hopefully this mess will end soon.
Two sites is a good idea (scab shoot a wedding).... Tell 'em you're somebodies brother in law.
So... you're in your early 20s and you like pretty girls....
I'm a senior and I like pretty girls too... (some things never get old)
Good luck.
California is also in a crisis with the housing market - some of the worst in the nation. Apartments in Los Angeles go for $1500 a month for a "single" in some areas. Unfurnished. If you are lucky you can find a guest room to rent for $1000. People who bought their homes for $750,000 in the last 5 years now have homes worth about $500,000. That means they owe more on their house than it's worth and they can't use any of the equity. Many people use their equity to fund their retirement.
People who were regularly investing money towards retirement did so via the Stock Market. That, simply stated, means they were investing in all these companies who are having credit problems. The value of the company is reduced so their investors has lost money. The retired people who have saved all their lives have lost 40% of the investments. The interest and dividends are reduced - that is their income. Less to spend for the retirees.
The banks have lost a lot of money when people walked away from their homes because would you pay $250,000 more for something worth 2/3 of what you paid - after you lost your job? So now the bank has a piece of property and they are losing that $250,000 you lost. Now they have no money to lend. One of my clients couldn't make payroll - because the bank cut off their line of credit that they used to make payroll when their clients did not pay.
I just heard on the news that California is suspending 2500 public works projects. There is no money to complete them. People who bought those homes are having them revalued for property tax - so the tax collected will be down 33% too. On top of the income tax they won't collect because people have lost their jobs and the sales tax that is reduced because people are not shopping.
So, is this negative? No - this is what is really happening. Can we over come this? I think so but we all have to work hard and together to make it happen. We have to spend, save, invest and work hard. It will take us years to bounce back. Maybe 5 or 10 before we can see the heyday we have just left. It's possible but we all have to care about making it happen.
Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
http://flashfrozenphotography.com
Do some people take pleasure in creating a litany of 'problems' in the world? Do they come out in full force when the TV says recession? Look at the upside of this market: gas is cheaper, prices are lower on almost everything from food to electronics, those employed see their paychecks go farther, the current low value of stock provides excellent opportunities for anyone to 'get in' and make a killing over the next decade. Those middle age or younger will, for the most part see their stocks rebound if they have the wisdom to hold onto it. Education is more expensive, which means that those who currently hold college degrees will have more of an advantage after less people graduate. Those who have good credit can get an amazing deal on a house, car, snowmobile, photography business startup, whatever. Finally, the market has forced the credit and housing industry to go through a period of concision and restructuring in just one month that wwould have taken decades, and in doing so will work better in the long run. And the same with public fiscal policy.
Hmmmm.... we have an accountant with a variety of business clients in a variety of industries and she has direct access to their books. Or we have you who is young and full of idealism and not out in the real world yet.
Sorry, I'll believe the accountant.
Good luck with your endeavor, but whether you want to believe it or not, this really is a tough time to be starting a new business like this. And by the way, just how sharp are your business and marketing skills? Those will be much more valuable to you right now than your skills with the photography. Read everything you can on the subjects.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Where do you think all the people who lost their houses are going to move? Apartments! There is a shortage of livable hoursing here! And for $500 a month the areas are not where you would want to come home at night alone.
Have you been to Los Angeles for even an extended visit?
I am not pessimistic at all...these are facts. This is what I do to earn a living for many years. I work in real businesses every day in the heart of the entertainment world. Numbers don't lie! My office building once full of thriving businesses is now 50% empty. The restaurant closed and all the real estate realated businesses are gone out of business - the Architect, the Mortage Loan and Real Estate Sales offices - gone!
Your story is one that I have heard many many times. There are some Pro photographers boards just like this. There is so much competition here. We have Brooks Institute not far away and the jobs for entry level work goes to them, the USC Film School Students and Art Institute Students. The shelters here are full of people who have come here to find work to find themselves out of money with nowhere to go. Even the fast food places aren't hiring. You have no track record here. You know no one in the industry.
Sorry you don't hear my message. Bring plenty of cash and save enough to buy your ticket back to Boulder.
BTW - my husband came here right after he graduated Denver University with his Master's Degree.
Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
http://flashfrozenphotography.com
Now I'm really depressed.
This can be a time of opportunity. In my experience, I came to California in 1972, from New York when they were experiencing a recession in real estate. I'm a real estate broker. We sold/gave everything away, packed our 6 yr old daughter in our Camero and headed cross country. We were on our way to Australia (after starting paperwork in NY)
The plan was to stop in San Francisco (where there was also a recession) and tourist around for 4-6 weeks. I would get a no think job (security guard/watchman) to support our local travels. Problem was I couldn't get job and the bigger problem: we fell in love with SF - corney? yep.
I became more more successful in CA then I ever could have in NY. Planned? hell, no it just happened. Luck? perhaps... but I would never have known if I didn't try it.
Go for it and may the wind be at your back.....
Rags
PS
Never did get to Australia.
There will always be people who choose to see whatever side they want. Only you can choose which path to take, and what you want to see.
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I was going to post some helpful advice but based on the above you clearly have it all worked out!
Actually, with your attitude, you'll probably make it big in Hollywood!
Good luck
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
How do you know this about me? It's not even true! You really sound like you want me to fail. I have visited LA, I have a filmmaking degree, and I have friends in the industry IN LA. I also have friends that will let me stay with them for free. What is your problem anyway?
Christ, I ask people for some advice on moving to LA, and they fall over themselves trying to prove that I'm never going to make it. Okay, so I will be dead in a ditch in 6 months due to lack of job availability and massive vanity. I'm going anyway.
Oh and angelo I'm sorry that I won't get that one single piece of advice from you that would have saved me. You go ahead and sit on it though.
Ok, so if they are wearing a G-string, I suppose that they are technically not naked. And maybe it doesn't count if you don't see their ta-tas, but you do see their other ass-ets, but they certainly wouldn't be something on daytime TV. Did you actually forget what you have posted on your site?
Now watch the hit rate for your site increase
Maybe I'll go shoot porn. What's wrong with that?
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I mentioned in the first post that I knew the economy was bad to try and stop people from freaking out at me.
Then everyone is convinced I don't REALLY get it. Well I REALLY REALLY get it.