Studio Lighting, etc.

kdspencer

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to posting, but I've been lurking around for the past few weeks, reading all the threads and drooling over the great portraits and senior shots. You can see some of the pics I've taken this month in my 'studio' of my two kiddos if you click here (I couldn't figure out how to post them in this thread). http://kdspencer.smugmug.com/gallery/6740263_iacD8/1/430497932_ZHRwa

I have a few questions for those of you who use off camera flash and studio lighting. I have a Canon 5D with 430x speedlight. In my studio setup, I use my speedlight on camera (bouncing it off the ceiling), and have about 5 day-flo lights with softboxes on them set up all around the subject. Day-flo is daytime florescent lighting, which creates a soft glow, but it has no way of controlling the light. The photos you can see were taken with these lights, often with the exposure bumped up a bit. The problem with these lights is that it makes it very hard to direct any light towards hair, backdrop, etc... which makes it hard to get the 3D texture with any variance on lighting. (they're the lights my hubby uses for his video shoots) So, I'm trying to figure out what I need to get to have a good studio setup, as well as for outside shots. What would you prioritize/recommend?

1. Buying an adapter (not sure what it's called?) that lets me set up my flash off camera
2. Getting another light that is NOT a softbox type light (I keep reading about alien bees?)
3. Anything else???

Thanks!

Scott_Quier

Hey Kathleen,

Welcome to the game! I figure it's got to be a game as it's sooo much fun!

Lighting - you will grow much faster with a couple or four stobes. Alien Bee strobes are an expensive alternative that I have used for a little more than 2 years now with no problems at all. There are lots of ways to trigger them. You can go expensive and buy a bunch of PocketWizards, go cheaper with some "Ebay specials", there are other radio triggers available. But the cheapest route is no radio triggers - you can trigger them with your 430EX (the ABs have optical slaves that will see your 430 and use that to trigger) if you can set the power output manually and turn off the ETT-L pre-flash (I think you can, but I'm not sure).

Once you get the strobes (choose the manufacturer of your choice - it's almost a religeous discussion:D), and an appropriate set of modifers (umbrellas, softboxes, snoots, grids, whatever strikes your fancy) you're off and running.

You can get your 430 off camera with a set of radio triggers (see above) and a hot-shoe adapter that will interface with the radio receiver half of your trigger set.

Maybe go to the library and check out books on studio lighting. Some will reference old technology, but lighting really hasn't changed that much. Light goes in a straight line and adhears to the inverse-square law. After that, it's all about what is the latest technology rage. Basic portrait lighting has not changed either. Research "loop lighting", "rembrandt lighting", "short lighting", "broad lighting", and "cross lighting". These will get you a very good start on the "classics".

Finally, as you have already figured out, lighting is not about the removal of all shadows, but is, instead, the quality of the shadows and placing them where you want them. All that comes with time.

P.S. - As for posting photos, read the content pointed to by the link in my signature.

mayassa

Watch some of these videos they really open up your understanding


\http://www.prophotolife.com/video-library/

Art Scott

Scott_Quier wrote:

Hey Kathleen,

Welcome to the game! I figure it's got to be a game as it's sooo much fun!

Lighting - you will grow much faster with a couple or four stobes. Alien Bee strobes are an expensive alternative {Scott really means INEXPENSIVE alternative} that I have used for a little more than 2 years now with no problems at all. There are lots of ways to trigger them. You can go expensive and buy a bunch of PocketWizards, go cheaper with some "Ebay specials", there are other radio triggers available. But the cheapest route is no radio triggers - you can trigger them with your 430EX (the ABs have optical slaves that will see your 430 and use that to trigger) if you can set the power output manually and turn off the ETT-L pre-flash (I think you can, but I'm not sure).

Once you get the strobes (choose the manufacturer of your choice - it's almost a religeous discussion:D), and an appropriate set of modifers (umbrellas, softboxes, snoots, grids, whatever strikes your fancy) you're off and running.

You can get your 430 off camera with a set of radio triggers (see above) and a hot-shoe adapter that will interface with the radio receiver half of your trigger set.

Maybe go to the library and check out books on studio lighting. Some will reference old technology, but lighting really hasn't changed that much. Light goes in a straight line and adhears to the inverse-square law. After that, it's all about what is the latest technology rage. Basic portrait lighting has not changed either. Research "loop lighting", "rembrandt lighting", "short lighting", "broad lighting", and "cross lighting". These will get you a very good start on the "classics".

Finally, as you have already figured out, lighting is not about the removal of all shadows, but is, instead, the quality of the shadows and placing them where you want them. All that comes with time.

P.S. - As for posting photos, read the content pointed to by the link in my signature.

I agree with Scott...........

I use some PRE- Alien Bee flash units from the same company Paul C. Buff in Nashville and after over 20yrs of being used they still fire away.....I need to have 2 rebuilt and for less than $100 it was done and very quickly I might add.....

I use some of what Scott refers to a Ebay Specials for my triggers (a total of 5 recievers and 3 transmitters for under $100 and they work great.....also use an EBAY Special to fire my camera's that wireless remote was under $50 and I wouldn't go back to a wired camera trigger unless I just absolutely had to.....like working somehwere I couldn't get a battery for weeks on end.....


Good Luck

Shane422

My setup has been evolving and growing like a junk yard dog as my needs increased. I use speedlights off camera for outdoor setups, and a combination of speedlights, an Alienbee, and a JTL Versalight indoors. The speedlights by themselves would be fine inside, but when shooting kids, the recycle time could be somewhat limiting. But that can be overcome by using them at lower power which might mean higher ISOs on your camera.

The JTL light was a cheap ($150) monolight I got from Adorama to get me started. Once I saw that I was going to use my lights a lot, I bought the Alienbee. It is by far the most useful light of my collection for indoor work.

If you want cheap speedlight alternatives, look for Vivitar 285HV units. They go for about $90 each.

A great resource for off camera lighting is www.strobist.com. Also www.MPEX.com has many strobist kits for sale that you might find useful.

As for flash triggers, MPEX sells the eBay triggers called Cactus Triggers. But you really should look at the radiopoppers.com site. They are releasing a new set (JrX) which are not too much more and should be much more reliable.

mayassa

radiopoppers will release the new set (JrX) in FEB 09, I will upgrade my cactus then.

It will be worth the wait if you can to save up the little extra for the JRx.

Most mono-lights can be triggered by your on camera flash or hot shoed strobe.

kdspencer

Wow, thanks everyone for the tips. A little overwhelming, but very helpful.

Scott, I actually have bought a couple books on lighting and am learning all the terms (key light, hair light hi key lighting, mid key lighting, etc.) I've been reading it over like 5 times just to try to get it through my head. I'm amazed at how much thought and strategy goes into studio lighting. But that's why some are professional photographers, and others aren't.

Art, thanks for the clarification of what Scott said - I wondered about Alien Bee strobes being an 'expensive alternative'. Sounds like most people who have gone this route have been happy with them.

As for umbrellas and accessories, I can figure that out after I decide on which light unit to get. And I have lighting stands already, I'd just need an adapter for the umbrella and the flash to sit on.

Mayassa, I'll take some time to watch the videos you suggested. It looks like there are a number of good ones on the website.

I know this sounds dumb based on everything you've told me, but I'm still green to the "lighting stuff" and want to make sure I get it right. To get my flash off the camera (Canon 5D), I would need to put something in the place where my flash usually goes (hot shoe), right? And then I have to put something on the bottom of the flash itself so that it knows when to fire and will synch up with my camera? What are there called (transmitters/receivers?) And then if I add an Alien Bee, or another light source, how do I hook that up? (sorry if I'm posting this question in the wrong forum...)

Also, does a "strobe" light mean it only flashes when I press the shutter, or does it have a way for the light to stay on if I wanted it to?

I just looked at the radiopopper site and watched the video for the new JrX. It looks good, but I don't know much about brand names for this type of thing. Do many of you use this? I want whatever I get to be something reputable that will have support or a warranty if something goes wrong.

Thanks again... still learning, and I agree with you Scott, it's a very fun game!

kdspencer

Wow, Mayassa I just checked out the pro photo life site and watched a couple videos - GREAT site for tutorials, thanks for pointing me in that direction!

mayassa

yes a hot shoe goes on your camera then has a wire to the shoe that goes on your flash. For the price of this cable thing you can buy the cactus unit cheap from hong kong and mod the transmitter antenna. Mine works at over 400 feet with no misfires.

Most mono lights have a cord you can hook up to your camera and trigger the light when you take your picture.

One other thing monolights are ready to shoot every 1-3 seconds a regular flash takes longer and ou can get the calumet genesis 200 kit for about 150 with 10 bucks off shipping right now. I just ordered my second one a 400 kit with the soft box. I was going to go with the alien bees, but I just figured I would keep the same line of lights.

eL eSs Vee

The wire mayassa mentions is a "sync cord."

Strobe lights are only on when triggered, and then shut off immediately. Some strobes have built-in modeling lamps that stay on unless you turn them off. The better (read: "more expensive") strobe systems often have modeling lights with variable power - this is to allow you to see the lighting and shadowing in a way that better represents how they will look in the final image.

I'm currently using a $250.00 150ws two-light set-up that I bought from Adorama - two lights (one sync cord each, but I've been known to trigger them, using no cord, with my camera top flash set to 1/32 power), two silver umbrellas, two stands, one snoot and one barndoor and a carry case in the kit. Plus, I added a small softbox. They're monolights with two settings and have modeling lights (non-variable). So far I'm very impressed with this inexpensive set-up, but next year I'm getting some lights with more power. I'm researching three kits at this time. I want a minimum of 650ws per light which, coincidentally, is about the most I can afford.

On Thanksgiving day, I took this impromptu portrait of my family (with a couple of add-ons - one's boyfriend and another's wife and an odd assortment of niece and nephews - cats are family by self-induction) using the Adorama kit. The lights were about six feet from the first row and set at full power. I used the umbrellas.



A motley looking group, if ever there was one, but we have a lot of fun when we together.

I wish you the best of luck with your photography. So far, it sounds like you're off to a good start.

Scott_Quier

kdspencer wrote:

I know this sounds dumb based on everything you've told me, but I'm still green to the "lighting stuff" and want to make sure I get it right. To get my flash off the camera (Canon 5D), I would need to put something in the place where my flash usually goes (hot shoe), right? And then I have to put something on the bottom of the flash itself so that it knows when to fire and will synch up with my camera? What are there called (transmitters/receivers?) And then if I add an Alien Bee, or another light source, how do I hook that up? (sorry if I'm posting this question in the wrong forum...)

There must be some sort of connection between your strobe/flash and your camera. It can be as simple as an x-sync cord or a transmitter/receiver pair.

The cord will plug into the pc-sync port on the side of the camera and the other end into the strobe/flash/hot-shoe adapter.

The transmitter/receiver pair - the transmitter will (usually) be attached to the camera hot-shoe and the reciever will be attached to your strobe/flash/flash adapter via a cord of some sort. For example, with Alien Bee strobes, you would use a cord with a male (2-lead) mini-connector on either end.

kdspencer wrote:

Also, does a "strobe" light mean it only flashes when I press the shutter, or does it have a way for the light to stay on if I wanted it to?

Strobes and flash durations are measured in milli-seconds - so they are quite short duration - and, as you guessed, they fire only when you press the shutter button. As mentioned above, some strobes have modeling lights. ABs have something in the neighborhood of 75W or 100W tungsten lights that can be turned on to help one visualize where the light is going to strike your subject. ABs also have a switch to allow the modeling light power to vary in proportion to that of the strobe - the longer the strobe flash, the brighter the modeling light.

Some speedlights/flashes also have a modeling light feature - it's actuated by pressing a button and is, in reality, a burst of low-power flashes intended to give you a quick look at where the light is going to strike your subject.

kdspencer wrote:

I just looked at the radiopopper site and watched the video for the new JrX. It looks good, but I don't know much about brand names for this type of thing. Do many of you use this? I want whatever I get to be something reputable that will have support or a warranty if something goes wrong.

RadioPoppers are a relative new-comer to the market so there's little historical performance information. urbanaries uses them to very good advantage (see this post for some examples). The original Radio Poppers are designed to work with your speedlight system. There's not too much information out yet about the new additions to the Radio Popper family.

kdspencer wrote:

Thanks again... still learning, and I agree with you Scott, it's a very fun game!

kdspencer

Quick question for Scott. You wrote in this in an earlier response:

Scott_Quier wrote:

But the cheapest route is no radio triggers - you can trigger them with your 430EX (the ABs have optical slaves that will see your 430 and use that to trigger) if you can set the power output manually and turn off the ETT-L pre-flash (I think you can, but I'm not sure).

I've been reading up on Alien Bees, and discovered they're made by the same manufacturer as White Lightening, which Art uses. From what I read, it sounds like as long as I have a flash on camera (or off camera) that fires, the AB's will see it and immediately fire as well. Is that the way it works?

Thanks!
~Kathleen

eL eSs Vee

I don't see why it shouldn't work, Kathleen. After reading Scott's memo about that, I've been trying it out with my Adorama set. I shot this, just today:



I set the camera-top flash at 1/32 power, and all I did out of the ordinary was hold my hand at an angle in front of it, directing the light toward the strobe, to block what would have been a tiny specular on the apple. Works like a charm.

Scott_Quier

kdspencer wrote:

Quick question for Scott. You wrote in this in an earlier response:


I've been reading up on Alien Bees, and discovered they're made by the same manufacturer as White Lightening, which Art uses. From what I read, it sounds like as long as I have a flash on camera (or off camera) that fires, the AB's will see it and immediately fire as well. Is that the way it works?

Thanks!
~Kathleen

Yes. I've shot portrait sessions where I have the strobes set as required. Then I mount my 580EX on the camera, set the flash to manual mode, power to 1/128, and turn the strobe away from the subjects. In the room I use for a studio, the strobes see the flash (even though the flash isn't pointed at them) and this triggers the ABs quickly enough that I was able to shoot as 1/250 and not have any exposure problems. The optical slaves in the ABs seem to be quite sensitive as I've not needed to "point the flashes at the ABs" to get them to trigger.

The key is that you need to set your flash to manual mode AND ensure that the flash does not do any ETT-L pre-flash as the pre-flash will trigger the ABs and you end up with a dark frame - not a good thing:D

pathfinder

Optical triggering works well indoors where you are the only photographer.

The problem comes in public, group sutuations, where there are other point and shoot cameras and thier flashes firing, that will discharge your flashes just before you trigger your shutter. And then your flashes will not fire for your image while your shutter is open.

If you plan to use your lights where other might also be shooting, be sure and plan for a more secure radio trigger, or a direct pc wired connection.

Jazmyn76

just wanted to add my thanks! lighting is the next thing i'm tackeling right now and this thread was immensely helpful!