Copying & Editing Photos - I don't get it
Matt518
Registered Users Posts: 118 Major grins
I realize I'm new here, but I'm not trying to start any wars or stir the pot (which will probably end up happening anyway). As I become a more regular poster, and hopefully a contributer, I'm sure you'll come to know me as someone who speaks my mind.
Something has been bothering me a bit as of late.
Two different photos of mine that I willingly posted here have been copied, edited, re-hosted and re-posted in the same thread by no less than two different members...without permission. I understand that a big part of this forum is for people to learn techniques and strategies to improve their photography, and for some to share their wealth of knowledge in helping others to do so. However, I find it slightly offensive, even a little unethical, for a member of this site (and fellow photographer) to copy, edit, re-host and/or re-post another member's photo without permission. I'm not suggesting copyright infingement; I'm aware of general copyright laws, and even though my photos were absent of any copyright watermark, to my knowledge it isn't necessary, nor should it be in this vast network of photographers, many of whom are employed in a professional capacity. Had these members asked for permission, I probably would have granted it, provided they explain what was done (and maybe how) so everyone can benefit from it (see? indirect contribution).
Where does Dgrin stand on its own members engaging in such activity? I was recently perusing another (*cough, cough*) photography related forum. The users had messages under their avatars, either "It is OK to edit my photos" in green, or "It is NOT OK to edit my photos" in red. Is that something Dgrin should look (or need) to implement?
Something has been bothering me a bit as of late.
Two different photos of mine that I willingly posted here have been copied, edited, re-hosted and re-posted in the same thread by no less than two different members...without permission. I understand that a big part of this forum is for people to learn techniques and strategies to improve their photography, and for some to share their wealth of knowledge in helping others to do so. However, I find it slightly offensive, even a little unethical, for a member of this site (and fellow photographer) to copy, edit, re-host and/or re-post another member's photo without permission. I'm not suggesting copyright infingement; I'm aware of general copyright laws, and even though my photos were absent of any copyright watermark, to my knowledge it isn't necessary, nor should it be in this vast network of photographers, many of whom are employed in a professional capacity. Had these members asked for permission, I probably would have granted it, provided they explain what was done (and maybe how) so everyone can benefit from it (see? indirect contribution).
Where does Dgrin stand on its own members engaging in such activity? I was recently perusing another (*cough, cough*) photography related forum. The users had messages under their avatars, either "It is OK to edit my photos" in green, or "It is NOT OK to edit my photos" in red. Is that something Dgrin should look (or need) to implement?
Please do not copy, edit, rehost or repost my images without permission.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
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Comments
This is a great forum and people will honor your wishes if you don't like that kind of teaching... just let it be known (in a nice way!
Especially when a person includes "I hope you don't mind" in their post. If it's a big deal to you send them a PM and ask them to remove the image and, as others have said, put something in your sig. Most people take it as a compliment that other people think you took a picture worth spending a few minutes of their own trying to help improve.
You're not alone in your displeasure. I just had one of my images sliced and diced and I'm not happy about it.
I think this has become too commonplace here and I plan on having a discussion with the other MODS about it.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
#3 of the long version of the Dgrin rules states You may only post images or content for which you have the rights to post. I interpret that as you can only post photos for which you have permission to do so.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
I agree with Richard. I could not care less if others edit my photos for me to see. It can open up a whole new perspective on your photo.
Really. Not all edits are improvements.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
This is a photography forum. A visual medium. I appreciate the effort, and thought others make when showing me a different approach than I took with a particular image. I may or may not like a particular edit, but I always appreciate the thought!
I believe the forum is for us to learn, and share. A photograph or picture conveys information far differently than the written word. An image edit is far superior in conveying an idea about an image than a 1000 words.
If I were really concerned about some one mucking with a low rez image, I wouldn't post it!
Oh, and if you haven't guessed by now, always feel free to edit anything I post.
Sam
I've started to implement a disclaimer asking for permission first.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Sam, I agree with you...this site is for learning and sharing, and I most definitely appreciate that someone else wants to share their knowledge and experience. I don't think it's asking too much to be courteous and respectful of another's work. I enjoy sharing pics, and receiving feedback, but sometimes I may post a picture that I don't want to see in any other form other than what I created. I've started implementing a disclaimer in my posts when I share pics.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
instead of a disclaimer in particular posts.....why not permanently in your siggy...just so you do not forget on that one all important photo????
I add my support to you for this.
I've never posted an image anywhere here on Dgrin, my main interest being in keeping up with customization of my site. However, I would take great exception to anyone editing an image of mine without asking my permission - I'm totally amazed that this practice is considered acceptable and that it should be considered necessary to include a request NOT to do this in a signature, unless of course I was asking specifically for help in how to improve an image.
Like Matt518 I just take it as a common courtesy not to do something without the photographer's permission. I certainly wouldn't.
Caroline
www.carolineshipsey.co.uk - Follow me on G+
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Art, I considered that option, but on posts involving multiple photos, the disclaimer wouldn't be visible until the bottom of the post. If I forget to state it at the beginning, I guess it will be like saying "Do what you want with them", even if it's not my intention.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
Caroline, based on most of the responses here, I've come to the conclusion that you either state a disclaimer or deal with it - your photos are free to edit. Unfortunate, but that seems to be the consensus.
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
We must look at it. We're required to look at it. We are required to do what we can about it. If we don't........who will? - James Nachtwey
If you are posting pictures to a public forum where snagging a copy is as simple as a right click, you have to expect people to download and use/modify your pictures. Maybe not in advertising where a company can be sued for using a copyright image without licensing the image, but by the general populace for their personal use whatever that may be. If you are so attached to your images that you don't want anyone to download them, don't post them to a public forum. If you are worried about someone using an image without licensing it, watermark them.
Personally I'm psyched when someone is interested enough in an image that I took that they want to download and "fix" it. A large part of the reason I'm here is because of the high quality of the images and the skill of the photographers. The fact that these people are willing to share their knowledge for free with a complete amateur like me is awesome! It makes me feel really good when someone who takes scary good pictures says, "Geoff, I really like this picture." I like it even better when they say, "Ewww, this picture kinda sucks. Here's why and what you can do next time to make it better."
I realize that my images are rubbish and disposable. Some of them I'm very happy with and really enjoy looking at. I even print some of them for my family and friends. But anytime I feel like I've mastered this I look at work by Richard Avedon or Annie Leibovitz or Henri Cartier-Bresson or Galen Rowell and realize I have a long way to go.
So I separate myself from my pictures, I upload them here knowing people are going to "steal" them, but in exchange I learn from people who are better than me and who are also willing to share...
Here's one to share. It's of a cute little mouse my wife rescued from the basement that was abandoned by it's mom. The on camera flash is too harsh, but he is still cute.
Matt,
You can always intersperse text with images. In fact, we encourage people to number their pics that way in a multishot post, as it makes discussing them easier.
I agree with you that the majority of people on Dgrin think it's OK to edit and repost. It's also true that some people believe that you should ask permission first. For the time being, I suggest you put a statement in your sig. You can always give explicit permission in a post for those cases in which you are seeking editing help.
The mod discussion continues, but we don't agree among ourselves on the matter, so I wouldn't expect a policy change any time soon. On the other hand, I think both mods and members agree that any statement you make discouraging edits of your pics will be respected by all.
Simple and direct.
GreyLeaf PhotoGraphy
Agreed. We are looking at that possibility.
+1
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
+1
(or there could be a text box below the avatar where we could put a short statement regarding permission, or something)