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Printing thoughts and doubts
Quantum3
Registered Users Posts: 54 Big grins
Hi everyone --
I'm looking for info about how to do a good print.
For one hand, I have made several tests using a simple printer (EPSON PhotoR200).
1) I have created a grey scale gradient inside a 16bpc file in order to see how it get printed out (glossy photo paper, best configuration/300DPI). I examined the print and of course, the 10% of the print was almost pure black (because the paper, mostly), withouyt perceptible graduation, then, graduation and then, the last 10% of the print has a very noticeable gaps between dots. Of course, printers use to spread out the ink in order to get lighter densities.
The conclusion is: printers doesn't use 300 DPI linearly, same with camera sensors about ISO, but that's another topic.
I would like to know what's the best printer for grey scale images. Is there something with 9 black ink cartridges?
2) For the other hand, my printer prints too dark (monitor Apple Cinema Dispolay Calibrated with EyeOne).
I have done several printings in order to match the denity from the monitor with the density provided by the printer, but I find imossible a perfect calibration, since I know it cannot be perfect, but this is quite disgusting.
The best result was done with (in PS) Gama = 1,30 and (in Printer) Gama = 1,5 but, the problem is with the black point, I think, because tones, which are close to dark, are printed like pure black, without gradients. I'm thinking the dinamyc range of my printer is not good enough. What do you suggest?
How to measure the dynamic range and tonal gamut of a printer? How much picoliters can be held by a pixel? I guess that 4,16 (taking into account that 72 pixels in 1 inch, 300 dots divided by 72 pixels gives 4,16 dots per pixel, just in case this info is needed because I'm not also sure about this).
Printing in color needs another configuration, for example, all the setting must be done in the printer dialog and: Gama = 1,5; Contrast= 12 and Saturation = 25 (25 is the 100%) in order to get vivid colors. However, I cannot get the perfect print, like the ones in the ads, and there are lot of density differences in some parts of the printed picture. It's not nearly good.
WHAT THE HELL SHOULD I DOOOOOO!!!!!!! Please, give me a tip. I'm tired of reading and wasting my money. I live in a third world country and I have this printeer since it was released to the market, the price of each ink cartridge here is equal to 20 hours of work, so please, give a hand.
I'm also aware of this, but I have some doubts. NO BODY in Argentina can teach me, so I'm self-taught. People here knows nothing, printing shops sucks here. Please, help.
Monitors can show only 16.7 million of colors so far, printers can print out 100 million of colors since CMYK has a wider gamut than RGB. Monitors are RGB, which are made and shown by luminance instead pigment. The available colors in any monitor so far are mostly the saturated ones becuase the more saturation, the more bright. Pigments are not allowed to produce same saturated colors than a monitor just because one is pigment made and the other one light made. Vivid colors always will be shown better in the monitor.
Now, I have a question.
It has sense using the same profile from monitor in the printer? I mean, we shoot in RAW and 14 bpc etc, which is greater than what we see in the monitor, (in fact, a 8 bpc image has much more tonal values when printed than when it's shown in the monitor) and even greater than the printer. Why reducing all the information from our RAWs when printing using a monitor profile in the printer, which is even more reduced than the printer's/RAW's gamut it self?
I would appreciate a reply a lot.
Please, help.
Mart
I'm looking for info about how to do a good print.
For one hand, I have made several tests using a simple printer (EPSON PhotoR200).
1) I have created a grey scale gradient inside a 16bpc file in order to see how it get printed out (glossy photo paper, best configuration/300DPI). I examined the print and of course, the 10% of the print was almost pure black (because the paper, mostly), withouyt perceptible graduation, then, graduation and then, the last 10% of the print has a very noticeable gaps between dots. Of course, printers use to spread out the ink in order to get lighter densities.
The conclusion is: printers doesn't use 300 DPI linearly, same with camera sensors about ISO, but that's another topic.
I would like to know what's the best printer for grey scale images. Is there something with 9 black ink cartridges?
2) For the other hand, my printer prints too dark (monitor Apple Cinema Dispolay Calibrated with EyeOne).
I have done several printings in order to match the denity from the monitor with the density provided by the printer, but I find imossible a perfect calibration, since I know it cannot be perfect, but this is quite disgusting.
The best result was done with (in PS) Gama = 1,30 and (in Printer) Gama = 1,5 but, the problem is with the black point, I think, because tones, which are close to dark, are printed like pure black, without gradients. I'm thinking the dinamyc range of my printer is not good enough. What do you suggest?
How to measure the dynamic range and tonal gamut of a printer? How much picoliters can be held by a pixel? I guess that 4,16 (taking into account that 72 pixels in 1 inch, 300 dots divided by 72 pixels gives 4,16 dots per pixel, just in case this info is needed because I'm not also sure about this).
Printing in color needs another configuration, for example, all the setting must be done in the printer dialog and: Gama = 1,5; Contrast= 12 and Saturation = 25 (25 is the 100%) in order to get vivid colors. However, I cannot get the perfect print, like the ones in the ads, and there are lot of density differences in some parts of the printed picture. It's not nearly good.
WHAT THE HELL SHOULD I DOOOOOO!!!!!!! Please, give me a tip. I'm tired of reading and wasting my money. I live in a third world country and I have this printeer since it was released to the market, the price of each ink cartridge here is equal to 20 hours of work, so please, give a hand.
I'm also aware of this, but I have some doubts. NO BODY in Argentina can teach me, so I'm self-taught. People here knows nothing, printing shops sucks here. Please, help.
Monitors can show only 16.7 million of colors so far, printers can print out 100 million of colors since CMYK has a wider gamut than RGB. Monitors are RGB, which are made and shown by luminance instead pigment. The available colors in any monitor so far are mostly the saturated ones becuase the more saturation, the more bright. Pigments are not allowed to produce same saturated colors than a monitor just because one is pigment made and the other one light made. Vivid colors always will be shown better in the monitor.
Now, I have a question.
It has sense using the same profile from monitor in the printer? I mean, we shoot in RAW and 14 bpc etc, which is greater than what we see in the monitor, (in fact, a 8 bpc image has much more tonal values when printed than when it's shown in the monitor) and even greater than the printer. Why reducing all the information from our RAWs when printing using a monitor profile in the printer, which is even more reduced than the printer's/RAW's gamut it self?
I would appreciate a reply a lot.
Please, help.
Mart
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Comments
You may have already done this but I'd make sure that the monitor and the programs you are using to process is using the calibrated colors (if they can). For example in DPP, I can select the color profile from the Huey Pantone, in LR and PSE, I don't think I can.
Printers can print in wider color gamut, but just for consistency for now, I'd go with sRGB vs aRGB as I hear monitors use the sRGB (I've heard that this may not be the case though). But just to be consistent for now, use the same color gamut throughout your workflow.
Try printing in from Windows Photo Gallery.
Also make sure you are using Epson paper and ink. I hear especially the ink from third parties are not reliable in terms of colors. Make sure you have selected in the menu the proper epson paper you are using.
Lastly, make smaller sized proofs so that you don't waste a lot of ink and once you have it right you can print bigger.
My personal experience was that I couldn't get the colors right even after talking with Epson's technical support except when I print with Windows photo viewing program. In PS and DPP, I could get the print reasonably ok after adjustments but I'd have to do it for every print, wasting ink and paper. Since I prefer to use Canon's DPP to make prints, I went back to a Canon printer and have gotten much more consistent results with much more accurate colors.
I hear your frustrations though. I hope those much more familiar with Epson Printers chime in soon with more specific advice.
Cheers,
Hello Mister
Thanks Mister for the time and for the help and for relocating the post. My apolgizes for the miscategorization