Most Bang For The Buck?

Matt518

Looking for input on a DSLR. I tried searching, but there's so many options for so many different skill levels and types of photography. As soon as I think I've found something that fits my needs, I see something else.

A little about me and my skills. I took a class in high school (circa 1990-91) where I learned the basics. During this class I used, and still have, a manual 35mm SLR, and have shot with it quite a bit over the years, building upon those fundamentals. I also had a P&S that I used quite a bit before it died. I took a Photoshop class a few years ago, and have forgotton most of what I learned, but I'm constantly being reminded (and learning new things) as I sift through the various threads here.

Let's say you have a total of $600 to spend. What's the best overall setup, either new or used? The camera will be used mostly for amateur/part time photojournalism, general picture taking as well as salable prints (up to 24x36) - people/street photography, landscapes, and some adventure/off road sports. I'd also be looking into making calenders and selling some photos as stock. Most, if not all, of the photos will be shot in raw and processed in Lightroom and/or an older version of Photoshop (until I can upgrade). I'm not interested in shooting portraits or weddings - they're just not my thing.

What say you? What's the most bang for the buck, and why? (No Nikon v. Canon v. Pentax v. Whoever debates please.)

Tee Why

I think unless you buy a very used set up, getting a camera that can do all that you ask seriously would cost much more than that.

If you want a general camera that can print 24x36 good enough for sales, my first recommendation would be a 5D which is about twice or more of your current budget used. Another option is a Canon 12MP XSi which would cost just under $650 with a kit lens but I'd not consider that for heavy photojournalist use.

Another option is a used 40D but I think these are going for over $600. If you are serious about working as a photog, I'd probably pick a Canon or a Nikon as they pretty much dominate the working pro market and they have the biggest system of lenses/accessories.

I'm sure some Nikon folks can jump in as well with some Nikon bodies to recommend.

If it was me, I'd start with a Canon XS with a kit lens for about $475 and use the rest for needed accessories and go from there.

Good luck.

Art Scott

For a DSLR I would be venturing into ebay land and see what they have....your money is not goingto get you a new cam + lens.....you may want to be looking into one of the PROSumer p/s with a good super zoom....like a fuji s100....with its 28-400 [35mm equiv] lens it will run a bit more than $600 but it should do everything you want......or you may want to save a bit and go for a Konica Minolta A2....its lens is about 28-200 and supertack sharp ( iahve sold large images[30x40 inch....i did use GF4 to do final uprez at 300dpi for 8x10 quality ar 30x40"] made with mine..........you will be very hard pressed to anything DSLR wise even used for your money amount especially with a lens of any type..........it will not be impossibel to do what you want with a PROSUMER p/s.................

Robinivich

Matt518 wrote:

Let's say you have a total of $600 to spend. What's the best overall setup, either new or used? The camera will be used mostly for amateur/part time photojournalism, general picture taking as well as salable prints (up to 24x36) - people/street photography, landscapes, and some adventure/off road sports. I'd also be looking into making calenders and selling some photos as stock. Most, if not all, of the photos will be shot in raw and processed in Lightroom and/or an older version of Photoshop (until I can upgrade). I'm not interested in shooting portraits or weddings - they're just not my thing.

The difficulty here is that for your listed applications (street, sports, landscapes) an SLR would require a particular, respectable quality lens, particularly for prints up to 2' by 3' poster size. Any new lens meeting requirements would likely blow your entire budget, and you wouldn't even have a camera to mount it to.

Shooting Canon, I would say your minimum quality body would be a used rebel XT (sub $300 range), but you're more likely to want the build and responsiveness of say a 20D, which goes for $350-400 used. As for minimal lens requirements, a sigma or tamron 70-200 2.8 (these specs are pretty much required to call something a sports lens) will run you around $600. You could make do with an 18-55 type kit lens for general purpose photography, these are cheap and plentiful, usually under $100. A better choice would be something like the tamron 17-50 2.8, which would run $400 or so. More serious landscapers would want a wider angle lens, and for dependable quality this would cost not much less than $600 for a 10-22mm or similar range lens. Nikon provides similarly priced combinations, the only problem being that their recent consumer DSLRs that fall in your price range, aren't able to autofocus with the older (therefore cheaper) lenses in the Nikon lineup.

From what little I know about it, stock photography would likely be difficult with these kinds of setups, since a lot of stock (no pun intended ) is put on file sizes, how many megabytes your processed tiffs are, and the 8 or 10 megapixel DSLRs that fit your budget simply wouldn't compete very well with the pro's running around with 21-24 megapixels at 14 bits. This doesn't necessarily mean you can't take very good pictures, but that they will be harder to sell in the current market.

I hate to be a splash of cold water here, but $600 just doesn't take you very far in DSLR land. I'm a few years and several thousand dollars in, and I still wouldn't call my setup particularly "pro." This is a hobby, or profession, that always finds new ways to spend your money for you.

I would have a good look at some of the cameras Art mentioned, since they have more "capabilities per $" than any DSLR kit could. Also check out the Panasonic FZ-30 and FZ-50, I've always liked the look of these, and if you're lucky you can track down a used one.

swintonphoto

OLYMPUS!!!!!
I have been an avid Olympus user for years. I started using their DSLRs because they are the most bang for the buck. I would get the E-520 if I were you. It has as many features as cameras more than twice its price, and the lenses it comes with are much sharper than the lenses that come with other cameras in its price range. You can get the E-520 with 2 great lenses for just over $600:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/580755-REG/Olympus__E_520_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

I use its predecessors (E-510 and E-500) to run my professional studio. They work great and are amazingly priced. The E-520 comes with great features such as in-body image stabilization, dust-reduction that keeps dust off the sensor, live view, etc.
If you really compare the specs you will see there is not a more bang for the buck option than this. This is a NEW DSLR. No need to by used.

Check out my sites below for samples with the E-510 and E-500. The E-520 will do even better.

swintonphoto

Tee Why wrote:

I think unless you buy a very used set up, getting a camera that can do all that you ask seriously would cost much more than that.

I disagree. See previous post.

Grainbelt

swintonphoto wrote:

OLYMPUS!!!!!

PENTAX!!!!



On a very thin budget, it is hard to beat Olympus and Pentax, IMO. Pentax has the advantage of backwards compatibility with almost all their lenses since the 70's. You can pick up an autofocus lens for minimal cash that will perform wonderfully. check pentaxforums.com for additional information on that front.

sherijohnson

This is in no way saying this is the only option, but you can get a brand new Sony alpha - a300 right at $600, matter of fact I bought one as a gift that someone will be getting in 2 days and it was a package with TWO lenses from B&H, I think it had an instant $200 rebate.

Let me tell you, these cameras are feature rich and I would say you definitely get a lot for your money.

Cygnus Studios

Matt518 wrote:

As soon as I think I've found something that fits my needs, I see something else.

This will never change. My current setup includes a pair of D3's and a variety of lenses from 17 through 500mm. I still have a serious wantlist and darn if Nikon doesn't continue to make bigger and better things to temp me.

Matt518

Wow, I didn't expect to get this many responses in such a short amount of time. Alot of good info to sift through.

A few additional points to consider:

1. I'm not looking at initially doing alot of heavy PJ work. As stated, it will be amateur/part time, at least for the time being (i.e. more of a hobby, with an occasional sale). As such, I can't justify jumping into a pro DSLR. If it's something I am good at, I may consider doing it on a more regular basis and I'll look into camera upgrades at that time (with this camera being downgraded as a backup).

2. My interest lies mainly in Photojournalism, as opposed to selling stock, so that takes precedence in the camera I'm looking for. Selling stock will just be something to provide a little "extra" here and there. Any camera will be sufficient for general picture taking (friends, family, etc.)

3. Although I haven't narrowed down what aspect of PJ I will mostly be doing, initially it will encompass people/street and adventure/off road sports photography. It could also include news/current events and humanitarian stories. Basically, whatever entices me to write a story. As I get more into it and doing it on a more regular basis, I can focus on a particular area to specialize in. Landscapes, general pictures and the like will be available as stock.

4. As far as prints, I realize there is enlarging software such as Genuine Fractals that enable larger prints sans a loss in quality. It may or may not be an option, depending on the proprietary file type being recognizable by print services. Most prints will probably not be 24X36, but having that option will allow for "special" prints to made, either as gifts or to be sold. Majority of prints will likely be in the 16X20 range. My research indicates that 10mp would be sufficient for prints this size.

Since there have been several responses with several different reccomendations, I will try to address each response a little later.

Telecorder

Bridge Camera
Matt--
Given your circumstances and, most especially, your stated budget, the above recommendation for a Prosumer bridge camera such as the Pany FZ30 or FZ50 makes the most sense to start out with, IMHO.

While you state that you have some film experience, digital imaging has come a long way. Your varied interests covers a wide range of both camera and lens alternatives. There are those that will argue to start out with a basic Canon or Nikon or Pentax or Sony or whatever dSLR, the fact remains your budget will only get you so far and you'll wind up with an entry dSLR and kit lenses. While this is not bad, in and of itself, I'd argue you may be better off dipping your toes into the digital side with a bridge camera.

Once you've gained experience and have become accomplished using a bridge camera, you'll have a much better sense of the body and lenses that you'll be best served by.

My personal bias is to consider a used FZ30 or a FZ50. My FZ5 and FZ30 served me well to get to the point where I had sufficient experience of digital imaging and knowledge of the best dSLR/lens combos that fit my imaging styles.

As an example of how the FZ30 can compare to a dSLR, the following article might be of some interest...
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/panasonic_lumix_dmc-fz30_canon_eos-20d_camera_shootout/

The FZ30/FZ50 have a lot of features including Leica glass, large range of lens' focal lengths, flip out LCD screen, RAW file, 'Live view', in-camera image stabilization, movie capability et al that you'll be paying a lot more to include in a dSLR system down the road. Once you've had some time to become accomplished in these features, you'll be in a much better position to evaluate which features/capabilities are important and valuable.

Art Scott

swintonphoto wrote:

OLYMPUS!!!!!
I have been an avid Olympus user for years. I started using their DSLRs because they are the most bang for the buck. I would get the E-520 if I were you. It has as many features as cameras more than twice its price, and the lenses it comes with are much sharper than the lenses that come with other cameras in its price range. You can get the E-520 with 2 great lenses for just over $600:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/580755-REG/Olympus__E_520_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

I use its predecessors (E-510 and E-500) to run my professional studio. They work great and are amazingly priced. The E-520 comes with great features such as in-body image stabilization, dust-reduction that keeps dust off the sensor, live view, etc.
If you really compare the specs you will see there is not a more bang for the buck option than this. This is a NEW DSLR. No need to by used.

Check out my sites below for samples with the E-510 and E-500. The E-520 will do even better.

there is even a $50 INSTANT REBATE at BH right now....but it is also out of stock for now.....with rebate it is just $40 over your budget.....now bad for a brand new DSLR...............


As for image uprezing software diminishing your image quality......I have found that to be totally untrue of GF....which i have been using since GF3.0.......my clients have been perfectly happpy with the enlargements they have received.....I do give a lot of KUDOS to my local pro lab....Douglas Photographic Imaging ..... who has the ability for uploaded files thru FTP..............

20DNoob

Well checking your profile I might suggest an old D2H. I know I know it's only 4MP, but it's the same 4MP as my 1D and I've printed out 11x14 at home only using PS2 to uprez and had great results. I'm sure if I used a program specifically designed for the upsizing I could do a lot better.

The best reason alone aside from the frame rate for the off road stuff is the sealing. It's a godsend to not have to worry about weather or dust and I figure I'd rather focus on the shots than be concerned about the prior. The seals have twice saved my butt, once at an event where it rained out for the entire 4 hours I was there. All the paid shooters(newspapers) were running for cover under the tents 30+ feet away while I sat at the barrier looking like a soaked to the bone idiot. An idiot I may be, but I'm the only idiot that didn't have the crowd in any of my shots. And the second was at a rodeo at a bull riding competition. I had sat ringside for the entire event and at the I was covered head to toe in dust. A PWC came down to me and started laughing when they saw the aftermath and made some snide comment about how smart they were sitting in the back with their entry level and kit lens. You should have seen the look of horror on his face when without saying a word I took my bottle of water and hosed down the whole set up.

Well that's my take on it, good luck with whatever you choose.

Matt518

Thanks guys, my head just exploded.

I'm still researching the recommendations...

Matt518

Tee Why wrote:

I think unless you buy a very used set up, getting a camera that can do all that you ask seriously would cost much more than that.

If you want a general camera that can print 24x36 good enough for sales, my first recommendation would be a 5D which is about twice or more of your current budget used. Another option is a Canon 12MP XSi which would cost just under $650 with a kit lens but I'd not consider that for heavy photojournalist use.

Another option is a used 40D but I think these are going for over $600. If you are serious about working as a photog, I'd probably pick a Canon or a Nikon as they pretty much dominate the working pro market and they have the biggest system of lenses/accessories.

I'm sure some Nikon folks can jump in as well with some Nikon bodies to recommend.

If it was me, I'd start with a Canon XS with a kit lens for about $475 and use the rest for needed accessories and go from there.

Good luck.

The 40Ds that I've seen are slightly out of budget, at least when you factor in a lens ($699+). I might be able to increase the budget a little, but it's an unknown factor at this time. The Canon XS might be a viable option. I'm looking at an XS package - XS Body, Tamron 28-80 f/3.5-5.6, Tamron 75-300 f/4.0-5.6, Wide Angle and Telephot Lenses (both fit over another lens), 3 filters, carrying case, tripod, hard case and memory card for $640.

Matt518

Art Scott wrote:

For a DSLR I would be venturing into ebay land and see what they have....your money is not goingto get you a new cam + lens.....you may want to be looking into one of the PROSumer p/s with a good super zoom....like a fuji s100....with its 28-400 [35mm equiv] lens it will run a bit more than $600 but it should do everything you want......or you may want to save a bit and go for a Konica Minolta A2....its lens is about 28-200 and supertack sharp ( iahve sold large images[30x40 inch....i did use GF4 to do final uprez at 300dpi for 8x10 quality ar 30x40"] made with mine..........you will be very hard pressed to anything DSLR wise even used for your money amount especially with a lens of any type..........it will not be impossibel to do what you want with a PROSUMER p/s.................

The only problem is knowing what I'm looking for, hence why I asked for camera recommendations. I know enough to know that ultimately I will need various lenses for varying circumstances, so a P&S is not something I'm looking into.

Telecorder

Matt518 wrote:

The 40Ds that I've seen are slightly out of budget, at least when you factor in a lens ($699+). I might be able to increase the budget a little, but it's an unknown factor at this time. The Canon XS might be a viable option. I'm looking at an XS package - XS Body, Tamron 28-80 f/3.5-5.6, Tamron 75-300 f/4.0-5.6, Wide Angle and Telephot Lenses (both fit over another lens), 3 filters, carrying case, tripod, hard case and memory card for $640.

Matt--
Make sure you do your due diligence and check out any web e-tailers before purchasing. Great priced packages are usually a scam....

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14677

Matt518

Robinivich wrote:

The difficulty here is that for your listed applications (street, sports, landscapes) an SLR would require a particular, respectable quality lens, particularly for prints up to 2' by 3' poster size. Any new lens meeting requirements would likely blow your entire budget, and you wouldn't even have a camera to mount it to.

Shooting Canon, I would say your minimum quality body would be a used rebel XT (sub $300 range), but you're more likely to want the build and responsiveness of say a 20D, which goes for $350-400 used. As for minimal lens requirements, a sigma or tamron 70-200 2.8 (these specs are pretty much required to call something a sports lens) will run you around $600. You could make do with an 18-55 type kit lens for general purpose photography, these are cheap and plentiful, usually under $100. A better choice would be something like the tamron 17-50 2.8, which would run $400 or so. More serious landscapers would want a wider angle lens, and for dependable quality this would cost not much less than $600 for a 10-22mm or similar range lens. Nikon provides similarly priced combinations, the only problem being that their recent consumer DSLRs that fall in your price range, aren't able to autofocus with the older (therefore cheaper) lenses in the Nikon lineup.

From what little I know about it, stock photography would likely be difficult with these kinds of setups, since a lot of stock (no pun intended ) is put on file sizes, how many megabytes your processed tiffs are, and the 8 or 10 megapixel DSLRs that fit your budget simply wouldn't compete very well with the pro's running around with 21-24 megapixels at 14 bits. This doesn't necessarily mean you can't take very good pictures, but that they will be harder to sell in the current market.

I hate to be a splash of cold water here, but $600 just doesn't take you very far in DSLR land. I'm a few years and several thousand dollars in, and I still wouldn't call my setup particularly "pro." This is a hobby, or profession, that always finds new ways to spend your money for you.

I would have a good look at some of the cameras Art mentioned, since they have more "capabilities per $" than any DSLR kit could. Also check out the Panasonic FZ-30 and FZ-50, I've always liked the look of these, and if you're lucky you can track down a used one.

I realize my budget doesn't allow for much. I'm only looking for something to get started with. If doing this type of photography is something that works for me, I can look at upgrading to better bodies and glass to fit my needs. I'm looking into both the Rebel XT and the Rebel XS. If my pictures don't sell as stock, I won't be too upset, as long as I have something to write about and photograph.

Matt518

swintonphoto wrote:

OLYMPUS!!!!!
I have been an avid Olympus user for years. I started using their DSLRs because they are the most bang for the buck. I would get the E-520 if I were you. It has as many features as cameras more than twice its price, and the lenses it comes with are much sharper than the lenses that come with other cameras in its price range. You can get the E-520 with 2 great lenses for just over $600:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/580755-REG/Olympus__E_520_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

I use its predecessors (E-510 and E-500) to run my professional studio. They work great and are amazingly priced. The E-520 comes with great features such as in-body image stabilization, dust-reduction that keeps dust off the sensor, live view, etc.
If you really compare the specs you will see there is not a more bang for the buck option than this. This is a NEW DSLR. No need to by used.

Check out my sites below for samples with the E-510 and E-500. The E-520 will do even better.

Is there any logical reason(s) why Olympus has cameras with all the features of higher priced competing units, but at a fraction of the cost? How is the lens/accessory support?

Matt518

sherijohnson wrote:

This is in no way saying this is the only option, but you can get a brand new Sony alpha - a300 right at $600, matter of fact I bought one as a gift that someone will be getting in 2 days and it was a package with TWO lenses from B&H, I think it had an instant $200 rebate.

Let me tell you, these cameras are feature rich and I would say you definitely get a lot for your money.

The Sony looks like a great deal...although I haven't been impressed with their quality as of late. I used to be an advocate for Sony products, but every Sony product I've owned in the last 5-10 years has let me down. In my opinion, their quality just isn't what it used to be and as such, I'm hesitant to purchase anything from their line-up.

Matt518

Telecorder wrote:

Matt--
Given your circumstances and, most especially, your stated budget, the above recommendation for a Prosumer bridge camera such as the Pany FZ30 or FZ50 makes the most sense to start out with, IMHO.

While you state that you have some film experience, digital imaging has come a long way. Your varied interests covers a wide range of both camera and lens alternatives. There are those that will argue to start out with a basic Canon or Nikon or Pentax or Sony or whatever dSLR, the fact remains your budget will only get you so far and you'll wind up with an entry dSLR and kit lenses. While this is not bad, in and of itself, I'd argue you may be better off dipping your toes into the digital side with a bridge camera.

Once you've gained experience and have become accomplished using a bridge camera, you'll have a much better sense of the body and lenses that you'll be best served by.

My personal bias is to consider a used FZ30 or a FZ50. My FZ5 and FZ30 served me well to get to the point where I had sufficient experience of digital imaging and knowledge of the best dSLR/lens combos that fit my imaging styles.

As an example of how the FZ30 can compare to a dSLR, the following article might be of some interest...
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/panasonic_lumix_dmc-fz30_canon_eos-20d_camera_shootout/

The FZ30/FZ50 have a lot of features including Leica glass, large range of lens' focal lengths, flip out LCD screen, RAW file, 'Live view', in-camera image stabilization, movie capability et al that you'll be paying a lot more to include in a dSLR system down the road. Once you've had some time to become accomplished in these features, you'll be in a much better position to evaluate which features/capabilities are important and valuable.

I understand your logic, but I'm just not feeling that is the best option. I realize there are multiple areas of photography that I'm looking at, each requiring its' own specialized lenses. There is nothing here that I'm looking at doing professionally/full-time, at least in the foreseeable future. As stated earlier, my primary interest is in amateur/part time PJ work, so that's where I plan on focusing. If I need to add lenses in the future for other types of photography, I'd like to have that option without having to sell the camera.

Matt518

Art Scott wrote:

there is even a $50 INSTANT REBATE at BH right now....but it is also out of stock for now.....with rebate it is just $40 over your budget.....now bad for a brand new DSLR...............


As for image uprezing software diminishing your image quality......I have found that to be totally untrue of GF....which i have been using since GF3.0.......my clients have been perfectly happpy with the enlargements they have received.....I do give a lot of KUDOS to my local pro lab....Douglas Photographic Imaging ..... who has the ability for uploaded files thru FTP..............

If you're comment regarding GF refers to me, I (don't think) I stated that resizing software diminishes quality. My only concern with it is whether the print service will recognize the file type.

Matt518

20DNoob wrote:

Well checking your profile I might suggest an old D2H. I know I know it's only 4MP, but it's the same 4MP as my 1D and I've printed out 11x14 at home only using PS2 to uprez and had great results. I'm sure if I used a program specifically designed for the upsizing I could do a lot better.

The best reason alone aside from the frame rate for the off road stuff is the sealing. It's a godsend to not have to worry about weather or dust and I figure I'd rather focus on the shots than be concerned about the prior. The seals have twice saved my butt, once at an event where it rained out for the entire 4 hours I was there. All the paid shooters(newspapers) were running for cover under the tents 30+ feet away while I sat at the barrier looking like a soaked to the bone idiot. An idiot I may be, but I'm the only idiot that didn't have the crowd in any of my shots. And the second was at a rodeo at a bull riding competition. I had sat ringside for the entire event and at the I was covered head to toe in dust. A PWC came down to me and started laughing when they saw the aftermath and made some snide comment about how smart they were sitting in the back with their entry level and kit lens. You should have seen the look of horror on his face when without saying a word I took my bottle of water and hosed down the whole set up.

Well that's my take on it, good luck with whatever you choose.

This is a good idea. I realize the D2H is/was a professional grade camera, so it's built rugged for pro work. While it might have been high end in it's day, the resolution is holding it back from serious contention. I can't see paying $400-500 for a 4.1mp camera, when I can get something with higher resolution for the same price. The fact that it was a pro camera doesn't quite make up for it's low resolution, in my opinion.

Robinivich

Matt518 wrote:

The only problem is knowing what I'm looking for, hence why I asked for camera recommendations. I know enough to know that ultimately I will need various lenses for varying circumstances, so a P&S is not something I'm looking into.

Fair enough! In that case a kit like the one you mentioned with the XS may be a good place to start, but instead of the 28-80 try and get something starting around 17-18mm and going to at least 50mm. 28-80 used to be a beginner's kit lens on film SLRs, on small sensor digitals, it's more like a weird telephoto (acts like 50-130mm) and wouldn't be wide enough for a lot of uses. The days of the 28-80s are really over (at least until full frame cameras lose a couple more grand off the price tag).

Here's a go at putting a package together for you:

Refurb Canon XTi http://www.adorama.com/ICADRXTIBR.html $300

Canon EF-S 18-55 IS http://www.adorama.com/CA1855AFUR.html $120

Canon EF-S 55-250 IS http://www.adorama.com/CA55250AFSR.html $200

There are cheaper lenses around that cover more or less the same range, the same retailer also offers a kit of a sigma 18-50 and 55-200 for $280, but you lose a lot for $40 saved, these two canons are stabilized, and have image quality way above average for the price. There are deals on memory going for only $10 or $20 dollars right now (check out the flea market forum for more info) and once you have a card in the camera you'll be able to shoot without purchasing anything else. Then you'll be able to address other needs as you notice them (and start sinking down the money hole like the rest of us )

Matt518

Ok, so while I was out doing some (as always) last minute holiday shopping, I put my mitts on a few cameras. Let me start off by saying that I have a friend who has a Digital Rebel (either XSi or XTi, I forget). I've taken a few shots with it, but not enough to form any kind of opinion - I was mostly just talking to some friends while "holding it" for her while she was ice skating. It felt like a well-balanced camera. It was comfortable.

Yesterday, I checked out a Nikon D40. It was too small. It felt like a toy. It was too small. I didn't feel like I ever had a good grip on it. It felt awkward. It was just...too small. I also checked out a Nikon D60. It's much more "normal" sized than the D40. The D60 felt comfortable. I could get a firm grip on it, but it didn't feel too heavy in my hands. I also felt up the Rebels and a Sony that was recommended earlier, but was only able to do so briefly before other shoppers began to navigate their shopping carts into my ankles (I think I might have also received an elbow in the back for being in someone's way). Needless to say at that point I was ready to leave.

What I'm thinking is that I'll get an entry level DSLR to get things started, either a Nikon or a Canon. With the low start up costs and the variety of lenses and accessories available, it just makes the most sense. As funds allow, I can add lenses as I go for different purposes, and if/when the time comes that something better or more 'pro' is required, I can look at what is available at that time. I know, I know...I'm not really any further than I was in post #1.

Matt518

Telecorder wrote:

Matt--
Make sure you do your due diligence and check out any web e-tailers before purchasing. Great priced packages are usually a scam....

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14677

yeah, I'm reluctant to buy anything off the web, especially places like eBay. I'd prefer to buy something local, where I can look at it before purchasing, or at the very least purchase through a reputable online merchant - B&H Photo seems to get a lot of recommendations here.

Matt518

Robinivich wrote:

Fair enough! In that case a kit like the one you mentioned with the XS may be a good place to start, but instead of the 28-80 try and get something starting around 17-18mm and going to at least 50mm. 28-80 used to be a beginner's kit lens on film SLRs, on small sensor digitals, it's more like a weird telephoto (acts like 50-130mm) and wouldn't be wide enough for a lot of uses. The days of the 28-80s are really over (at least until full frame cameras lose a couple more grand off the price tag).

Here's a go at putting a package together for you:

Refurb Canon XTi http://www.adorama.com/ICADRXTIBR.html $300

Canon EF-S 18-55 IS http://www.adorama.com/CA1855AFUR.html $120

Canon EF-S 55-250 IS http://www.adorama.com/CA55250AFSR.html $200

There are cheaper lenses around that cover more or less the same range, the same retailer also offers a kit of a sigma 18-50 and 55-200 for $280, but you lose a lot for $40 saved, these two canons are stabilized, and have image quality way above average for the price. There are deals on memory going for only $10 or $20 dollars right now (check out the flea market forum for more info) and once you have a card in the camera you'll be able to shoot without purchasing anything else. Then you'll be able to address other needs as you notice them (and start sinking down the money hole like the rest of us )

This brings up an interesting question. Has anyone had any issues with refurbished equipment?

Robinivich

Matt518 wrote:

This brings up an interesting question. Has anyone had any issues with refurbished equipment?

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=109695&highlight=refurbished is a nice little discussion, I've also read recommendations from at least one reviewer http://www.the-digital-picture.com

Internaut

Don't forget, your first DSLR system isn't necessarily your only system. Any of the entry level DSLRs will let you dip your toe in the water and take great pictures (even with the kit lenses in many cases). It's not really until you've done time with your first DSLR that you'll start to work out what works for you longer term. That's when they game gets costly .

sherijohnson

Matt518 wrote:

The Sony looks like a great deal...although I haven't been impressed with their quality as of late. I used to be an advocate for Sony products, but every Sony product I've owned in the last 5-10 years has let me down. In my opinion, their quality just isn't what it used to be and as such, I'm hesitant to purchase anything from their line-up.

Very interesting about the Sony. In the past I only had one sony dig cam and that was 11 yrs ago. When I found out that Sony took over the Minolta technology I realized there were some things to consider. For me it was a smart choice to give it a try because all of my Minolta Maxxum lenses and such work with the Sony alpha and they do so very well as long as they are not 3rd party items.

I think you could also do very well with some consumer level Canon gear.

Matt518

Robinivich wrote:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=109695&highlight=refurbished is a nice little discussion, I've also read recommendations from at least one reviewer http://www.the-digital-picture.com

I think Scott's post in that first link hits the nail on the head in regards to refurbished merchandise - even though the units are inspected, any replaced parts may be new or used, as well as the fact that the unit may have never even been opened. It's a crapshoot really. I think more research is needed to see if at least some information is provided with the unit detailing why it was refurbished, if any parts were replaced and whether those parts were new or used.