Workflow Questions

npudar

I have several tools and I'm trying to figure out what my best workflow is, and could use some feedback on my thinking. My tools include: Canon 20D, Lightroom 2.1, Photoshop CS2, Nik Dfine 2.0, Nick Sharpener Pro 3.0, and of course SmugMug. Here is what I think my workflow should be, and I will follow up with several questions:

a) Import RAW images into Lightroom with Canon 20D Camera Calibration in preset. Preset also has Sharpening and Noise Reduction both set to 0.

b) Rate images and select the "keepers".

c) Adjust White Balance, Exposure, and Colors.

d) Export images as PSD files (16 bit) to a folder.

e) Drag folder onto a Droplet which will runs Dfine for Noise Reduction in Auto mode and on a separate Layer (in case I want to change the opacity later).

f) Back to Lightroom to either apply Sharpening through Lightroom, or if I want to spend extra time and energy on certain images, I'll edit back in Photoshop with Sharpener Pro.

g) Finally Export the images to SmugMug from Lightroom with jfriend's excellent Plugin.

Now for my barrage of questions...

1) I am assuming that I want to run step (c) before I do the Noise Reduction in step (e). My rationale is that I beleive the exposure and color adjustments will potentially generate/expose noise, and I want the noise reduction to get applied after I've created/exposed the noise. Does this order matter?

2) If the order in question (1) doesn't matter, then I think I'd rather run the Noise Reduction first, then RAW Pre-Sharpening (in Sharpener Pro) in the same Droplet. Then I would go back to Lightroom for the color and exposure adjustments. My question is "how should I introduce RAW Pre-Sharpening into my workflow. My concern is that converting from RAW to PSD before I adjust colors, exposure and white balance will take away from my non-destructive editing flexibility.

As this thread develops, I'm sure I'll be generting more questions. Thanks for your help.

Nick

Pittspilot

npudar wrote:

I have several tools and I'm trying to figure out what my best workflow is, and could use some feedback on my thinking. My tools include: Canon 20D, Lightroom 2.1, Photoshop CS2, Nik Dfine 2.0, Nick Sharpener Pro 3.0, and of course SmugMug. Here is what I think my workflow should be, and I will follow up with several questions:

a) Import RAW images into Lightroom with Canon 20D Camera Calibration in preset. Preset also has Sharpening and Noise Reduction both set to 0.

b) Rate images and select the "keepers".

c) Adjust White Balance, Exposure, and Colors.

d) Export images as PSD files (16 bit) to a folder.

e) Drag folder onto a Droplet which will runs Dfine for Noise Reduction in Auto mode and on a separate Layer (in case I want to change the opacity later).

f) Back to Lightroom to either apply Sharpening through Lightroom, or if I want to spend extra time and energy on certain images, I'll edit back in Photoshop with Sharpener Pro.

g) Finally Export the images to SmugMug from Lightroom with jfriend's excellent Plugin.

Now for my barrage of questions...

1) I am assuming that I want to run step (c) before I do the Noise Reduction in step (e). My rationale is that I beleive the exposure and color adjustments will potentially generate/expose noise, and I want the noise reduction to get applied after I've created/exposed the noise. Does this order matter?

2) If the order in question (1) doesn't matter, then I think I'd rather run the Noise Reduction first, then RAW Pre-Sharpening (in Sharpener Pro) in the same Droplet. Then I would go back to Lightroom for the color and exposure adjustments. My question is "how should I introduce RAW Pre-Sharpening into my workflow. My concern is that converting from RAW to PSD before I adjust colors, exposure and white balance will take away from my non-destructive editing flexibility.

As this thread develops, I'm sure I'll be generting more questions. Thanks for your help.

Nick

Hi Nick

I'm curious why you need to move outside LR2 at all?

For most of my work on a 20D, I used LR and ONLY go outside when essential. Had no need for noise reduction unless using very high ISO.

My basic approach is to use the fewest tools possible, and I start with LR2. I DO use PS for things that LR wont do (e.g. photomerge for panos) and use other software for HDR.

Cheers

pathfinder

I do not understand the need for routine noise reduction in all images either. Noise reduction always has a cost in terms of image quality or acutance. Not much with good noise plug ins, but there is always a small cost at the very least. IF there is noise I frequently wlll just run the sky through Noiseware, and not the rest of the image, as it is more visible in the smooth, even sky than the more varied tones of the fore ground.

I agree that the cost is worthwhile with high ISO images, say 400 or higher on a 20D, but was certainly not routinely necessary when I was shooting a 20D.

I use Noiseware, but have used Neat Image and Noise Ninja also previously.

Noise is frequently a result of under exposure being pushed in RAW processing or in Photoshop. Even ISO 1600 files, that are not underexposed at all, can be quite good.

Tee Why

If it was me, I'd probably use LR's sharpening and it's noise reduction function instead of exporting and then re importing into LR, then export in JPEG and then upload to smugmug.

May save a lot of time. All correction/post processing tend to introduce noise so it's just a matter of how much. Usual amounts to a well exposed shot should not introduce too much noise though.

npudar

Thanks for the replies. I do a lot of indoor basketball shooting. If I'm lucky, I can shoot with 800 ISO, but lately I've been using 1600. So, my pictures tend to be noisy, and I have found that Nik Dfine has been a nice improvement over Lightroom's NR.

I've still got a ways to go to understand exactly when and how I'd use Sharpener Pro. So far, I like the results I get from Lightroom.

Nick

pathfinder

I am sure that a good separate noise program like DFine is much better than the noise treatment available in LR2 ( at this point in time at least ) and offers a great deal of improvement for shooting with a 20D at ISO 1600 for indoors basketball.

Capture sharpening and chromatic aberrration crrecction in LR2 is pretty darned good. Their output sharpening in the Print module is based on Pixel Genius PhotoKit Sharpener, which many feel is the finest sharpening program around. The Print module will let you 'print' to a jpg rather than a real print as well, so you can do both capture and output sharpening in LR2 very nicely.

BradfordBenn

There is one step that might be missing that has saved me a few times. I backup all the files first and create a PDF contact sheet that gets kept with the images. Just cause I am paranoid and a backup/CD/DVD is cheap.

npudar

Backup paranoia
I too am paranoid, and have excessive backups. I have a copy of each photo on two separate hard drives. I also do weekly syncs with an online data backup. And of course, I have a copy of output images on Smugmug. Maybe that is too many backups, but I feel better about it.
Nick

npudar

pathfinder wrote:

Capture sharpening and chromatic aberrration crrecction in LR2 is pretty darned good.

Pathfinder, thanks for the comments and tips about output sharpening. However, what are good "Capture Sharpening" settings in Lightroom that can safely be applied on all imports?

Thanks,
Nick

npudar

pathfinder wrote:

The Print module will let you 'print' to a jpg rather than a real print as well, so you can do both capture and output sharpening in LR2 very nicely.

Pathfinder, one additional question. I tried to use the Print Module to save a JPG file. When I did so, it created a 8.5 x 11 sized canvas with an embedded 4 x 6 image. I thought I had set the "Print to File" settings correctly -- but what should they be?

Another question is about whether the Output Sharpening will be appropriate for Displays, since the sharpening is being targeted for a printer. This is why I have been contemplating using an external Sharpener.

Thanks,
Nick