Mother & Daughter... need some help, please

NeilL

No, it's not about family dynamics!

This is a first try at this style of pic and processing. I can see two problems/challenges (at least :huh ) with this pic, which I won't mention just yet in case I preempt your reaction. I'd rather your eyes be fresh, which mine are not.

So, how can I improve what I've got here so far?

Thanks!


Clare & Fiona





Canon 40D, 50mm, F1.8

Neil

Scott_Quier

I'm guessing you're attempting a high-key portrait/photo. If this is the case, mom's top and the background behind her is ruining the attempt.

Start over with the processing. Starting with the color version:

• Clone out the background behind mom
• Select mom's top and make it a brighter color - so when you do the B&W conversion it becomes a lighter color
• Now, repeat what you've done to get to your B&W

or...

Close the background behind mom and crop the image to a landscape format - this will remove much of mom's top.

As a personal taste nit - I'm not loving the blurring the lower right corner.

Oh, and what's that sticking out from the left side of daughter's neck - clone that thing out.

or ...

Reshoot. This will allow you another opportunity to pay more attention the background and get a more flattering expression from mom.

Travis

I'm far from the expert but here is my $.02. I'm assuming that you were for something of high key effect. If so, the dark area behind the mother throws it way off. The daughters hair melds into the light fairly well. The dark background behind mom, though, is too stark a contrast, making her look albino like in a normally processed photo. Then again, I may have missed your intentions all together.

The pose and the composition look good. I wish you could have drawn the same expression out of the mother that the daughter has. Great job on lighting the glasses btw! The only other thing that I'm not sure about is the blur in the lower half of the photo. It appears that the softness isn't natural and cuts off abruptly.

Flyinggina

Good looking pair. They both have beautiful eyes. The Mom looks a bit uncomfortable though. I think the treatment is flattering to both mother and daughter.

I agree with the prior comments about fixing the background.

As to the blur, it doesn't work for me. I especially would like to see more detail in bottom right side of the Mom's hair. My eye keeps getting drawn to what looks like a glowing diffuse spot. Ditto for the ends of the daughter's hair. The blur in the daughter's right shoulder right in the middle of the photograph is also distracting. It looks as though the blur there was added, but if it is simply a dof issue, it is a harder problem to solve.

A lot of people don't care for it, but a hint of a soft white vignette treatment on the bottom after you have made changes to the dark background and brightened the mother's clothing might achieve some of the effect you are looking for. Sort of having them fade gradually into white, if you know what I mean. You might end up needing a bit of blurring if the shoulder is out of focus - just to even things up. A light touch might do the trick.

Can't wait to see what you do with it.

Good luck.

Virginia

Travis

Flyinggina wrote:

A lot of people don't care for it, but a hint of a soft white vignette treatment on the bottom after you have made changes to the dark background and brightened the mother's clothing might achieve some of the effect you are looking for. Sort of having them fade gradually into white, if you know what I mean.
Virginia

Swartzy

All in all, the photo needs more contrast. The faces need to pop as this particular conversion washes out the facial detail and overall look. As mentioned, a "reverse vinette" works quite well with this type of shot when going for the high key look....but even in a high key look, contrast is a good thing that your subjects stand out from the rest of the frame.

Also, the fakey looking lens blur is overdone.....and it really isn't necessary as it distracts the eye. Since this is a head and shoulders shot, your subjects take up most of the frame anyway...I'd ditch the blur all together and replace with soft vinetting.

My 2 cents.

Nikolai

Scott_Quier wrote:

Reshoot

+1

NeilL

Scott_Quier wrote:

I'm guessing you're attempting a high-key portrait/photo. If this is the case, mom's top and the background behind her is ruining the attempt.

Start over with the processing. Starting with the color version:

• Clone out the background behind mom
• Select mom's top and make it a brighter color - so when you do the B&W conversion it becomes a lighter color
• Now, repeat what you've done to get to your B&W

or...

Close the background behind mom and crop the image to a landscape format - this will remove much of mom's top.

As a personal taste nit - I'm not loving the blurring the lower right corner.

Oh, and what's that sticking out from the left side of daughter's neck - clone that thing out.

or ...

Reshoot. This will allow you another opportunity to pay more attention the background and get a more flattering expression from mom.

Great reply, thanks, Scott!

I wasn't going all the way with high-key, but I did want to give it plenty of light and some softness. I have seen fine portraits here with very desaturated skin tones, and a luminous glow. That sort of thing was what I had in mind.

Yes, the background was on my list, for sure. And the dark top. They were one of the reasons I went B&W - to try to reduce their presence. Obviously the shot was a candid at home (one of a handful I am working on). I used the room lighting and some flash from the 580. There wasn't the opportunity on that particular occasion to get too serious about photographs, but I did want to get some shots. That part of the house was about the best for light and space, and had the least fussy background.

All your points are very helpful, and I'll work them into a rework.

NeilL

Travis wrote:

I'm far from the expert but here is my $.02. I'm assuming that you were for something of high key effect. If so, the dark area behind the mother throws it way off. The daughters hair melds into the light fairly well. The dark background behind mom, though, is too stark a contrast, making her look albino like in a normally processed photo. Then again, I may have missed your intentions all together.

The pose and the composition look good. I wish you could have drawn the same expression out of the mother that the daughter has. Great job on lighting the glasses btw! The only other thing that I'm not sure about is the blur in the lower half of the photo. It appears that the softness isn't natural and cuts off abruptly.

Very good and helpful points, Travis, and very much appreciated.

I have explained a bit about what I had in mind, and the circumstances, in my reply to Scott above.

Clare's hair is in fact amazingly light. Originally ash blond, and now with generous addition of white! You're certainly right that I haven't dealt with it successfully yet.

Yes, you have sensitised me to the blur quality, and I'll definitely be giving that a review.

NeilL

Flyinggina wrote:

Good looking pair. They both have beautiful eyes. The Mom looks a bit uncomfortable though. I think the treatment is flattering to both mother and daughter.

I agree with the prior comments about fixing the background.

As to the blur, it doesn't work for me. I especially would like to see more detail in bottom right side of the Mom's hair. My eye keeps getting drawn to what looks like a glowing diffuse spot. Ditto for the ends of the daughter's hair. The blur in the daughter's right shoulder right in the middle of the photograph is also distracting. It looks as though the blur there was added, but if it is simply a dof issue, it is a harder problem to solve.

A lot of people don't care for it, but a hint of a soft white vignette treatment on the bottom after you have made changes to the dark background and brightened the mother's clothing might achieve some of the effect you are looking for. Sort of having them fade gradually into white, if you know what I mean. You might end up needing a bit of blurring if the shoulder is out of focus - just to even things up. A light touch might do the trick.

Can't wait to see what you do with it.

Good luck.

Virginia

What a classy critique, Virginia. Thanks for your generous help.

Clare's smile is not as wide as it might have been, but it's there... just! The smiles that I got in shots of her were not very photogenic, so in fact this little ghost of a one is preferable. I do like the contrast of the expressions on the two faces. I don't think I would have wanted them both to be smiling broadly. But I understand that others won't feel the same way.

Yes the blur was added using an onOne PS plugin. I'm not very good at driving that yet As I said to Travis I'll certainly be going back to have another go.

Crazy that you thought of the white vignette because in my experiments I did have a fly-by look at that, and I thought it definitely had possibilities. So I'll do a 180 turn around and have a closer look!

NeilL

Swartzy wrote:

All in all, the photo needs more contrast. The faces need to pop as this particular conversion washes out the facial detail and overall look. As mentioned, a "reverse vinette" works quite well with this type of shot when going for the high key look....but even in a high key look, contrast is a good thing that your subjects stand out from the rest of the frame.

Also, the fakey looking lens blur is overdone.....and it really isn't necessary as it distracts the eye. Since this is a head and shoulders shot, your subjects take up most of the frame anyway...I'd ditch the blur all together and replace with soft vinetting.

My 2 cents.

That's looking more and more on the cards, Swartzy. thumb

Many thanks for the great comments!

NeilL

Nikolai wrote:

+1

Yes, a reshoot would be perfect (is your studio available?)!

One significant fact, though, is that at the moment they are 7669 miles away from me as the crow flies. And that gap will not lessen for a few months yet.

And in the meanwhile they are waiting for their pics

Great to hear from you, Nik

Nikolai

NeilL wrote:

Yes, that would be perfect!

One significant fact, though, is that at the moment they are 7669 miles away from me as the crow flies. And that gap will not lessen for a few months yet.

Great to hear from you, Nik

Damn, it would have been such an elegant and simple solution to all the issues.

Other than that it seems you're up for a long trip to the selectionville :-)

NeilL

Nikolai wrote:

Damn, it would have been such an elegant and simple solution to all the issues.

Other than that it seems you're up for a long trip to the selectionville :-)

I'll send you a postcard!