Fast Zoom for Indoor Photos of Kids

eichert12

I'm looking for recommendations for a faster zoom lens. I currently have a 40D and have my 24-105L on it quite a bit. I have three young kids and take many of my pictures of them indoors in lower light. Lately I've been feeling like a faster zoom lens would be nice to add to my "kit".

I do have a few primes that are faster but I find that a zoom is nice for trying to capture fast moving children.

The caveat to this question is that I've been contemplating a move to a full frame body, namely the 5D mark II.

From what I've heard the 17-55 2.8 is the lens to get for a crop body. What do people recommend for a full frame body in the same focal length / speed range?

Cheers,
Steve

ziggy53

Steve,

I can confirm that the Canon EF-S 17-55mm, f/2.8 IS USM is very quick to focus. I seriously doubt that any camera/lens can yield the 100% keeper rate that people seem to expect in the situation of rapid motion, close proximity and low light.

Compared to action sports, children running can have a closing rate that exceeds even the best camera's ability to keep up, especially at the large apertures.

A flash is an extremely important component in allowing both a reasonable f stop and stop motion shutter speeds.

Technique is another important factor. Kids moving across the field are much easier to autofocus than kids moving either towards or away. If you use AI Servo remember that the camera has to sample a short period of consistent motion before it can predict the motion and calculate the correct focus at the time of exposure.

The Canon EF 24-70mm, f/2.8L USM is a reasonably similar FOV on a full-frame body.

If you are serious about going full-frame (or larger crop) and needing a high keeper rate with children, the AF section of the 1D MKIII or 1Ds MKIII is more appropriate to the task.

swintonphoto

The 17-55 2.8 is definitely a winner. If you have the $$ it is the one to get. If you want to save a bit you could go for the Tamron 17-50 2.8 or the Sigma 18-50 2.8. Both are also great lenses at a lower price. The Sigma will focus faster for you, so, for what you are describing, I would recommend the Sigma if you want to spend less.
If you want one for full frame, Tamron & Sigma also make similar lenses:
Sigma 24-60 2.8, Sigma 24-70 2.8, Sigma 28-70 2.8
Tamron 28-75 2.8

eichert12

ziggy53 wrote:

A flash is an extremely important component in allowing both a reasonable f stop and stop motion shutter speeds.

Agreed! I was actually without my flash a couple times recently which I think added to me wishing for a faster zoom lens.

ziggy53 wrote:

Technique is another important factor. Kids moving across the field are much easier to autofocus than kids moving either towards or away. If you use AI Servo remember that the camera has to sample a short period of consistent motion before it can predict the motion and calculate the correct focus at the time of exposure.

I'll have to give the AI Servo mode a try. I've played with it a bit but was having trouble getting good results.

The Canon EF 24-70mm, f/2.8L USM is a reasonably similar FOV on a full-frame body.

ziggy53 wrote:

If you are serious about going full-frame (or larger crop) and needing a high keeper rate with children, the AF section of the 1D MKIII or 1Ds MKIII is more appropriate to the task.

I'm just shooting my own kids, or family so while I certainly want to do everything I can to get a higher keeper rate I don't see myself going to the 1D or 1Ds. As much as I would love one of those, I can't justify the cost as a hobbyist.

Thanks for the thoughts and advice!

eichert12

Jonathan,
Thanks for the other lens recommendations, I'll definitely be checking them out. I'm thinking that once I decide whether to go full frame or not I'll make a decision. I've heard a ton of people recommend the 17-55 so I know that's the lens to get if I'm sticking with a crop body. I need to stay away from the threads talking about the mII ;-)

colourbox

If you bought the 17-55 you would have the same pair of lenses I use: 17-55 for more speed and wider angle indoors. 24-105 for more reach and durability outdoors.

Tee Why

I think the 17-55mm f2.8 IS may be the way to go for you as well.

If you are planning on a 5DMII and need a comparable zoom, then the 24-70mm f2.8 may be the closest (of course without an IS). But this would be a very expensive way to go to get some indoor shots of your kids. I could understand if you are planning to print really large, but otherwise, you may not see much of a benefit if you aren't printing or making relatively small prints.

The IS and the faster speed of the lens may allow you to go a few stops of ISO lower than on the 5DMII without an IS so you may get less noise.

Of course if you are interested in freezing motion with a fast shutter speed, you're only option is to get even a faster lens/ higher ISO or a flash. I probably wouldn't go with a flash as you may miss shots as the flash recycles, it makes the camera heavier, and unless you are pretty proficient with the flash, you can get that flat harsh lighting from a flash.

pathfinder

For shooting kids indoors, a pair of EOS flashes pointed towards the ceiling, in the corners of the room, triggered by an IR trigger ( ST-E2) will do wonders for the quality of your shots. You will be able to shoot at ISO 400 and still use smaller apertures and higher shutter speeds than with trying to get by with f2.8 glass.

Done right, no one looking at the images will see that they were done with flash, they just will be sharp and with good color.

A pair of 580exs and and ST-E2 costs less than the 24-70 f2.8 L for example. Just a thought

F 2.8 buys you one stop over the 24-105 f4 IS L, but the flashes will buy you at least 3-5 stops of light I suspect. As Joe McNally has said many times - much the best available light comes out of the light bombs in your camera bag ( or words to that effect )

You can read Davie Hobbie's suggestions for shooting Christmas morning here

ziggy53

pathfinder wrote:

For shooting kids indoors, a pair of EOS flashes pointed towards the ceiling, in the corners of the room, triggered by an IR trigger ( ST-E2) will do wonders for the quality of your shots. You will be able to shoot at ISO 400 and still use smaller apertures and higher shutter speeds than with trying to get by with f2.8 glass.

Done right, no one looking at the images will see that they were done with flash, they just will be sharp and with good color.

...

Flash, used properly, can often make a huge difference in these situations. Fast glass, f2.8 or better, can still be faster to focus because a larger aperture gives the AF section more definitive information to focus against, so if you can afford both fast lenses and multiple flash, and then stop down a bit to realize more DOF ...

eichert12

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I haven't decided which route I'm going to take just yet but I appreciate the different options and suggestions provided.

Cheers,
Steve

eichert12

pathfinder wrote:

For shooting kids indoors, a pair of EOS flashes pointed towards the ceiling, in the corners of the room, triggered by an IR trigger ( ST-E2) will do wonders for the quality of your shots. You will be able to shoot at ISO 400 and still use smaller apertures and higher shutter speeds than with trying to get by with f2.8 glass.

Do you have any recommendation for stands for the flashes? I only have a single flash right now and usually mount it on my camera so if I go this route I'd have to pick up a couple stands which I've been wanting to do anyhow so I could experiment with an umbrella. Do you recommend anything in particular?

pathfinder

EOS flashes come with a little plastic cold shoe for standing them on a shelf.

Justin clamps are a convenient alternative some folks use, including Joe McNally who mentiions the Justin clamp in his book.

You can find light stands - 6 feet, 8 feet, 10 feet or higher by a number of vendors. MPEX.com has a kit for students suggested by the Strobist that works just fine. B&H and Adorama both sell Impact, Wescott, Bogen - Manfrotto all make air shocked light stands at reasonable prices.

But you can just use Velcro tape or ball bungee cords as well - they're all good.

There is a thread here on dgrin about cross lighting with speedlights ala Strobist, here on dgrin by a friend of mine, George Zanotti.

eichert12

Any thoughts on this Impact Kit?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475575-REG/Impact__Digital_Flash_Umbrella_Mount.html

I have one 60" umbrella as well, which might address the "umbrellas are too small" concern I've seen a couple people have about this kit. I like the Strobist kits but they don't seem like the way to go if I'm going to get the ST-E2 and another flash, since they come with the Cactus or PW's and optionally with the Vivatar flash.