Storing noise reduction in DNG and Preview files?

Rhuarc

I've been trying how to perfect my low-light workflow recently, and I'm struggling with how to incorporate noise reduction into my DNG workflow. As it stands right now I -

1) Do main edits to CR2 files in LR2, export the changes to xmp files
2) Convert to DNG (so all the changes are stored in the DNG and the Full sized DNG preview reflects all teh changes)
3) This preview image is what I do many non-important prints off of.
4) If image need photoshop I open the DNG in photoshop, make changes and save as a psd file.

The part I am trying to figure out is how I can apply noise reduction using a good program (noise ninja or something like) and then have the noise reduction changes saved into the DNG files. I really don't want to have to create seperate images for each of the files that I apply noise reduction to.

Anyone have any ideas on this? If I were to use the Noise Ninja plugin for LR2 would the changes it makes save to the DNG file and then show up if I opened the DNG file in Camera RAW and then into CS4?

Thank you!

pathfinder

You can save your files as tiffs after performing de-noising on 8 bit or 16 bit multlayer images with Noiseware. 8 bit images stored as jpgs can have noise removed as well. Can't these bothl be opened again in Adobe RAW converter?

Rhuarc

pathfinder wrote:

You can save your files as tiffs after performing de-noising on 8 bit or 16 bit multlayer images with Noiseware. 8 bit images stored as jpgs can have noise removed as well. Can't these bothl be opened again in Adobe RAW converter?

The problem is not for the files that do end up making it into Photoshop. The problem that I am having is that for many of my shots I do all the editing I am going to do in LR2, and then export those changes into DNG files. These DNG files are then imported into my DAM IDImager. From here I use the full sized JPEG Previews (which contains all the changes made to the image) for printing and creating files for uplaod to Smugmug. I'd really like the capability to do noise reduction to these files and have that stick in the DNG files without having to save more tif files for the purpose of noise reduction.

Maybe this isn't possible. I guess what I'm really asking is there anyway to store noise reduction from a plugin such as Noise Ninja in the DNG metadata and full size preview?

Thank you for the fast response!

pathfinder

Rhuarc wrote:

Maybe this isn't possible. I guess what I'm really asking is there anyway to store noise reduction from a plugin such as Noise Ninja in the DNG metadata and full size preview?

Thank you for the fast response!

I am not aware of a way of storing the changes from a noise plug in as a DNG, but there certainly may be ways than I do not know or Sorry I can't be of more help.

Rhuarc

pathfinder wrote:

I am not aware of a way of storing the changes from a noise plug in as a DNG, but there certainly may be ways than I do not know or Sorry I can't be of more help.

No problem! Thanks for the response!

Rhuarc

Another question I had about this whole DNG this that I did not ask in the original post is what LR2 changes are actually changed in the full sized preview when applied to a DNG?

What I mean is, what metadata edits carry over into the DNG metadata and therefore show up on the preview image. I'm just wondering if things like the pixel editing with masks and such would carry over. If this is the case could I then open them in Camera RAW and see the same changes?

Just trying to figure out how various programs work with DNG and the metadata now that programs like LR2 can do so much to the image in a non-destructive way.

Thanks!

NewJohnny

Rhuarc wrote:

Another question I had about this whole DNG this that I did not ask in the original post is what LR2 changes are actually changed in the full sized preview when applied to a DNG?

What I mean is, what metadata edits carry over into the DNG metadata and therefore show up on the preview image. I'm just wondering if things like the pixel editing with masks and such would carry over. If this is the case could I then open them in Camera RAW and see the same changes?

Just trying to figure out how various programs work with DNG and the metadata now that programs like LR2 can do so much to the image in a non-destructive way.

Thanks!

All Lightroom changes and modifications are stored in the DNG metadata, including pixel edits. The catch is that metadata fields are open to interpretation and others can just be added in. This is a functionality of it's TIFF roots. Unfortunately, other programs may not be able to read them.

When you write the preview JPG into the DNG, it's a snapshot of your current working space. I've found that some programs will ignore the preview image though and attempt to build an image based on the metadata, which of course doesn't work if some fields are ignored. If you can find a way to get the program to ignore metadata and simply show the preview, that would be ideal.

Regarding noise reduction, I have not found a DNG-friendly way to do this. There is a vast difference between RAW and TIF. The expanded color space is the same, but the RAW files contain the original mosaic data. TIF has been interpolated and contains three times the amount of pixel data (which is why they are about three times the size). Noise removal programs would need to be aware of the mosaic data, know how to work with it, and create it's own 'noise-removal' metadata fields-- which most certainly would be ignored by every other program.

This is the DNG/RAW quandry regarding noise removal and I don't see a solution until Adobe opens up Lightroom to Develop plugins.

arodney

You can only do what you can do in ACR/LR after which, if you want to apply say Noiseware or work in the rendered images, they are no longer Raw and there's no reason to be dealing with DNG at this point. IOW, you have to draw a line in the sand when you wish to apply Raw processing, parametric instructions used to create RGB pixel based files, after which, DNG is out of the picture (you're no longer working with Raws or digital negs. Yes I know, you can place a rendered image into a DNG something that Adobe did that does nothing useful but confuse. DNG is a container. The data at this point isn't Raw. There's no reason at this time to move back to DNG. Draw that line, then work with TIFFs realizing the vast differences in both the data and the processing methods.