Wedding Vent

Van Isle

Hi folks,
just looking to vent to some shooters who understand (or maybe I'm wrong?!)

I was asked to shoot a friend's wedding for pay (AND be the best man). As a semi-pro shooter (I sell a few now and then) I said no no no.

Wedding plans changed, and my friend and her beau eloped in a small, quaint ceremony with the whole "dress, rings, reception" stuff to follow at a later date. Out of a sense of photographic duty, and at the last minute, I brought my camera, strobe, tripod. I knew there wouldn't be a "pro" there and I sort of felt SOMEONE needed to capture moments, . "Nikon: with great power comes great responsibility." So I snapped a few images gratis.

And now, of course, I am being pestered - politely - but pestered for these images. The Bride, bride's mom, friends, etc. I fully intend to give them the files, but I feel this pressure is rude and and I want to do a good job in post so that my work reflects me, regardless of the "price" they paid for them. Yet this unpaid pro bono stuff can't replace other paying work (like a day job). I feel like I'm being harassed to give this $1K wedding gift...

Thoughts? Never shoot at a wedding again unless for pay? Suck it up and hurry up, it's the bride's day?

VI

ChatKat

Ah the quandry..
I understand completely. One of my lifelong friends got married for the first time at 50. I shot the wedding for free. I told her it would have to wait for me to PP the images so it would be a few months since I had a lot of other work to do. She pestered me so much - although I did give her a selection of images right away. The agreement was that anyone else had to buy them if they wanted images. She gave the files away, her sister who was going to pay for some of the headshots I did at the wedding for her dating site stole them and it wrecked a life long friendship.

Now my camera stays home unless I get paid to do the images with a full on contract.

Editing to add that this was several years ago before I opened a studio and was a professional.

kdog

Why don't you simply give them a date when the pictures will be ready and stick to it?

fcorin13

Hi! I have to say that I totally agree about the whole contract thing. If you don't have any kind of contract- don't bring the camera or this stuff will happen. That said, I have to ask how long ago was the wedding? If it was only a week or two ago then politely tell them that it takes time to process these & you'll have them by such-n-such a date. Then they'll leave you alone. However, if it's been a month or more then it's more your workflow you should focus on. If you do not have spare time to put into "for fun" pictures, you may need to look into either simplifying your workflow or cutting back on your work until you have time for "fun" stuff. Now, I know that this wasn't simply "for fun". However, when I take pictures, I can't wait to work on them. I try to make sure that I keep my love of photography & that includes the processing of the pictures. A great picture isn't great if no one ever sees it. I hope this didn't insult you in any way, I just wasn't sure of the time table you were looking at!

Scott_Quier

Van Isle wrote:

And now, of course, I am being pestered - politely - but pestered for these images. The Bride, bride's mom, friends, etc. I fully intend to give them the files, but I feel this pressure is rude and and I want to do a good job in post so that my work reflects me, regardless of the "price" they paid for them. Yet this unpaid pro bono stuff can't replace other paying work (like a day job). I feel like I'm being harassed to give this $1K wedding gift...

The day job puts food on the table. Tell them so ... politely:D A quality job takes time. Tell them so ... politely. Tell them that the job will be delivered when the job is done and the quality takes time to bake properly. If you haven't don't so already, don't be tempted to release partial sets. Release it all at the same time. No need to give them any idea of the rate at which you are working.

Of course, when you have a paying client, the rules change a little bit. But, with a paying client you would have had a contract to spell out those rules.

Van Isle wrote:

Thoughts? Never shoot at a wedding again unless for pay? Suck it up and hurry up, it's the bride's day?

VI

Do not hurry up the processing. Stick to your process and produce your quality product. If you have respect for your product, so will your clients.

Van Isle

Thanks for the the thoughts and ideas, all!

The wedding was less than 2 weeks ago, and it was a rather surprise elopement. I have explained my desire to produce quality to the bride and her mother. I have given a date (end of today!) and I will stick to it. I totally understand the desire to not shoot without some sort of contract. However I feel sometimes that these people get cheated. The "pro" photog who ended up being paid $500 to shoot the reception (a few weeks post elopment, but dress, rings, meals, dancing, cake, kisses, etc) came with DSLR and a lens. That was it. I purposefully did not bring any of my gear but after seeing how ill-prepared the girl with a camera was, and how few shots she took, I did my best to take some well-composed and directed shots with my girlfriends P&S. It irks me to see those "moments" fall by the wayside when I could have prevented it. Such was my thinking during the wedding ceremony.

No good deed...?

I'm such a sucker, I know I'll end up being in this same situation again some day.

Thanks for listening!
VI

zoomer

Tell them 3 weeks to buy yourself some time. Then you can deliver them early if you are able to get to them.
They are just excited to see them and are having a hard time waiting.
If you have shot weddings before you should be used to it...just because you did it for free doesn't change anything as far as them being excited to see the pictures.

I still shoot free stuff all the time for practice...I treat the free stuff just like the paid stuff....your mileage may vary..

sherijohnson

When I have taken pictures at a friend or relative's wedding, I never made any promises, but they did get whatever I decided to give them and of course my images were great back up in case their official photographer missed a shot or made any tragic errors.

NorthernHorse

Interesting thread. So far, to reduce my harassment, I've taken pictures and stated up front that they can pick 3 and I will provide them an 8x10 of their favorite 3 as a present. Anything else that they may want, they can purchase. It's worked out great so far.

I don't give away files as present and I would not allow them to pressure me either. If I do put them up for review, they have a large copyright across them so stealing wouldn't do much good as they can't print them.

bob swanson

Most of us that make our entire living doing this understand what you've been thru. Because of this we have rules (contracts) that we abide by. I don't charge friends to photograph their weddings but do not encourage them to use me because I am usually busy plus friends and relatives do more abusing than regular customers. This time last year a good friend called me to hire me (he knew what my reply would be) and said that would be great. He was getting married in April. I didn't hear another word from him until 10 days before the wedding. I had already booked another larger event. He said he forgot to call. I had to hire another photographer to shoot his wedding and I paid him. My friend just, probably assumed that we all worked for free and to party and didn't think anything more of it but did understand and thanked me. Here it is almost a year later and I haven't heard from my friend since I gave him his proofs.
Maybe what I'm saying is that it happens to all of us but those in the business keep it at a minimum. By the way my friend did sign a contract and there we no other professional photog's there.
Just some thoughts, bsvirginian

Blurmore

When I go to a friend's wedding as a guest I shoot slides. I shoot them on my Canon T90 or Minolta Maxxum 5, once in my Minolta Autocord. Then I process and deliver those slides in a stack slide viewer as a wedding present, or sometimes a Christmas or Anniversary present depending on how long it takes me to get them together. There are limited and very expensive options for viewing 6x6 slides, so I scanned them, and unless a friend specifically requests the Autocord (which I doubt they will unless they are having a vintage garden party theme wedding with guests in costume) in the future I'll shoot all 35mm slides. The viewers are cheap on Ebay and the results are really cool. If "friends" want me to shoot a wedding like a wedding photographer rather than a "friend" who can make some really cool shots while enjoying their party, they are going to have to pay me.

Agnieszka

Ahhhh .... I was waiting for this post, haha I most likely won't help you with your question, but I do have to say, I've been shooting (close) friends & family for free for the past 5 years. - which is about 2 weddings per year. It's my wedding gift for them - yes, it IS worth a lot (if you consider the missing $$, that you'll miss the whole party ++ don't forget mom, which has your number and wil call you ever second day and ask you about the files), but it IS worth it, no I didn't always get the proper "thank you", but I mostly did - I even got some nice gifts, haha .... not that I asked for it.

I just figure that that's a way I can help a friend, and honestly, I WANT them to safe that money, as we all know wedding photography is expensive ... BUT I usually "only" get them the touched up files & I upload them to smugmug (not making much money of that, but then again .... once my couples receive the dig files they usually don't buy any prints from me anyway, so ... ). The only thing that they would "need" to order is a proper album, those are too expensive & too time consuming to give out for free ....

I do not necessarely recommend shooting for free for friends & family (and yes, they do harass you more than a usual bride - because - they can) .... but it IS really worth it, you'll get nice comments from their families / close friends ++ they owe YOU a favor ... I could open up a favor-bank-account by now, haha, but hey ... you never know, it's free advertisement!! All their friends will book you now too, so it's not really "lost" money!

Cygnus Studios

Van Isle wrote:

And now, of course, I am being pestered - politely - but pestered for these images. The Bride, bride's mom, friends, etc. I fully intend to give them the files, but I feel this pressure is rude and and I want to do a good job in post so that my work reflects me, regardless of the "price" they paid for them. Yet this unpaid pro bono stuff can't replace other paying work (like a day job). I feel like I'm being harassed to give this $1K wedding gift...

You have learned a valuable lesson. Do what you can and get this behind you. While most friends and family have the best intentions when asking, they tend to treat you worse in the end. This seems to be the same whether money is involved or not.
As most of us have learned, without a contract the camera stays home.

Van Isle

Cygnus Studios wrote:

You have learned a valuable lesson. Do what you can and get this behind you. While most friends and family have the best intentions when asking, they tend to treat you worse in the end. This seems to be the same whether money is involved or not.
As most of us have learned, without a contract the camera stays home.

That's a tough lesson for a sucker like me to take.

But I hear ya.

kazuri images

I think you've probably learned your lesson and got a lot of good advice from here follow your heart.

I have a separate "friends & family" rate, usually shooting the event for free but still including it on my site for others to order from. If I give a gift of a disk (which I usually on provide family or REALLY good friends), I politely ask that they respect my business and use it only for themselves. Their guests can order from my site at a reduced cost, or whatever I decide to charge. So far, everyone has been respectful of that - my family even pays, knowing that prints aren't free. If they choose to go ahead and give images away to others from a disk, hopefully I won't hear about it.

The other thing you could do is choose never to offer images on disk. Allow bride/groom to download from your site, or order at cost. They typically can't make enlargements themselves that cheap and you can monitor how much is going out (for the sake of curiousity!)

I was commiserating with your lament about people not getting photos at all if you don't do them. I felt the same (still do at heart), but you do not make decisions for others. Your friends knew in eloping that they were making choices about what to spend money on, and that they weren't going to get those shots. It was kind of you to step in out of YOUR desire that no one should be w/o photos, but that was a decision they made and you can't be responsible for fixing that. If you try and foist your belief that "everyone should have photos" on everyone who chooses not to, you will soon be taken advantage of by friends and stranger alike. There are things we do gratis or at cost to build our businesses or support our charities, but that is an entirely different motivation than our desire as photographers to capture the world in photos. I hope this makes sense! I do think what you did for your friend was honorable and i hope in time they are as appreciative and thankful as they should be. If not, however, let it serve as a lesson that if people aren't falling over thanking you, it was probably something they were fine choosing to do without in the first place!

cdonovan

I'll not shoot a wedding for free, too many expectations, too many ways that it can go bad...it's scary...but I've had a lot more respect from folks after quoting them a price...I wanted to shoot my cousins wedding for free, but they wouldn't let me...I wanted to give them a deal and just provide them with a cd and they could do all their own scrap books etc work, and they insisted that they pay me and I do it...no false expectations...no problems! For familiy I'll over deliver...provide larger books...provide longer films....spend more time editing they get a huge package at the end of it....but I still get paid for it!:D

Van Isle

kazuri images wrote:

I was commiserating with your lament about people not getting photos at all if you don't do them. I felt the same (still do at heart), but you do not make decisions for others. Your friends knew in eloping that they were making choices about what to spend money on, and that they weren't going to get those shots. It was kind of you to step in out of YOUR desire that no one should be w/o photos, but that was a decision they made and you can't be responsible for fixing that. If you try and foist your belief that "everyone should have photos" on everyone who chooses not to, you will soon be taken advantage of by friends and stranger alike. There are things we do gratis or at cost to build our businesses or support our charities, but that is an entirely different motivation than our desire as photographers to capture the world in photos. I hope this makes sense! I do think what you did for your friend was honorable and i hope in time they are as appreciative and thankful as they should be. If not, however, let it serve as a lesson that if people aren't falling over thanking you, it was probably something they were fine choosing to do without in the first place!

Very wisely put, and a new perspective for me. If indeed the married couple "really cared" about photos, they would have "really cared" about finding and paying for photographer. That is quite true.

Thanks for these words, and I will arm myself with them (against myself ) the next time!

VI

JDub

I would put them online in an online gallery and let them buy prints at your standard mark-up. One of the many reasons I try not to do family or friends weddings. Been burned too many times.