Help: Event Set Up

Ann McRae

This is the week I hope to figure out the equipment I need for sport on site photography. The requirements that have been given to me are the following:

1. On site printing is necessary (need help with brand of printer, how many, how to interface, etc.)
2. Ability to take posed team shots ( this means, I believe a backdrop and light set up that is portable)
3. Action photography

The 3 events in cue are

1. a large celebration at a very large gym venue. Does not require on site printing but posed and candid shots at a minimum. This is a soccer club and my opportunity to drum up business for this summer. I am thinking about using a digital frame to showcase some work.

2. Highland dance - 2 day championship competition. On site printing and group poses necessary

3. Badminton - 5 day, 4 age group, national finals competition. On site printing and group poses necessary


Thanks!!

ann

ziggy53

I moved this to "Technique" where I think you will find a more appropriate audience.

I am not much help in this regard as I have only seen others in this local market fail.

The only local photographer in the area who has been partially successful just takes orders for later printing.

I know we have several DGrin members who have run print-on-demand venues so hopefully they will join in the discussion.

ziggy53

Ann,

In terms of printers it looks like a fairly popular on-demand printer is the Sony Snap Lab UP-CR10L.

In particular it is light weight, fast to print, lab quality prints, durable and fade resistant prints, consistent color and relatively reasonable per-print costs. 5" x 7" is the largest print size.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/423669-REG/Sony_UPCR10L_PK_UP_CR10L_Snap_Lab_Digital.html

Ann McRae

Thanks, Ziggy.

I know the pitfalls of printing on site - the expensive overhead and so on. However, there are two reasons that I am pursuing this: First, and most importantly, the two organizers require it.

Secondly, I know there is a 'spur of the moment' market, and that having prints for sale on line actually allows people to procrastinate long enough that they do not buy.

So my hope is to put together a 'small' enough amount of overhead to do these events without risking too much.

ann

ziggy53 wrote:

I moved this to "Technique" where I think you will find a more appropriate audience.

I am not much help in this regard as I have only seen others in this local market fail.

The only local photographer in the area who has been partially successful just takes orders for later printing.

I know we have several DGrin members who have run print-on-demand venues so hopefully they will join in the discussion.

Ann McRae

Anyone???

Are event shooters a thing of the past?

Saturday fast approaches.
For Saturday, minimum requirements are the ability to do candid and posed shots.

I have my kit plus a 580EX and 2 pocket wizards. I understand that I need a cord to make the 580 work with a pocket wizard OR a Canon remote trigger. What is more functional/reasonable/easy to get?

I looked at large digital photo frames today - the 32" available at Best Buy is a brand of unknown repute and comes with a 90 day manufacturers warranty, so I do not think I will fork over the $700cdn. My alternate choices are 15" or perhaps the Photovu, if I could receive one by Saturday ( ).

I can haul myself out on Friday and hit the camera stores and look at lighting kits available locally, but suspect a full light kit may be overkill for my skill set for Saturday.

I would LOVE a recommendation on a lighting/posing book too.

ann

leaforte

Ann, I've successfully done the print on site operation at several horse competitions in the past. I had two people helping, and we were printing, and matting photos all day, $25 per. Always had a line, and people lingering long after the shows. It worked for me at the time. But that was a couple years ago, so I really can't jump in there with any recommendations for printers. I actually did a couple shows, printing right out of the lift hatch of my jeep. Again, lines all day. In those cases, my printer was way too slow and customers were not happy about waiting in the sun and dust (But they did). I wish I had had a couple more printers and a live wire (plug in). I whole heatedly agree with the digital frame idea. You mentioned it in a past thread, and it's been on my mind since. Good idea!

Art Scott

I just saw this......

How many shooters do yoiu have???

whose manning the computer / printer??

Shooting jpeg I suppose but will anyone do minimal processing??

Posed shots.....Always shoot the group shot first then do the singles

Background could easily be a segment of gym wall (hall way also) with banners and such for the event supplied by organizers.....
and 2 lights...we are not shooting for art here just slamming them thru....I tried to keep my team shots to a max of 3 minutes for soccer, baseball and football....can be done if kids are on a tight rope by coach.......
If you supply a backdrop either a black one or a painted sporty one will need a low long bench to seat at least 6, put coaches either on ends standing or behind and split remainder to stand behind and sit on floor in front.....giving you a diamond shape...narrow 1 st row wider second and narro 3rd row............with digital I would shoot 2 group shots and have in you contract no reshoots for closed eyes and such..........

I will keep an eye on this tonight and tomorrow right now I have to go watch a movie with my sister and a neighbor kid she invited over.....

wow...I am slow and leaforte got in ahead of me.....KOOOOOl

BradfordBenn

Just an idea
Okay, I am by no means an expert at this shooting stuff. However for some of this marketing stuff, I kind of understand.

Something to consider. I would recommend that you print up biz cards to leave on the table with a link to a SmugMug gallery that you will set up for the event so that people can go and look at the photos afterward as well.

Also on your photos, for your packing of the prints, you may want to think about a way to include info on how to order more prints or get in contact with you. Something like a cardboard frame that holds the print to keep it "safer" and that has your info. Or even just print it on the back of the image.

Just thinking out loud.

Also one of the things that I have learned from doing sports stuff for my day job, it helps to know enough about the sport to say something like, "I would like a group shot of all the defencemen..." seems to break the ice. (Hockey reference intended)

-=Brad

Ann McRae

leaforte wrote:

Ann, I've successfully done the print on site operation at several horse competitions in the past. I had two people helping, and we were printing, and matting photos all day, $25 per. Always had a line, and people lingering long after the shows. It worked for me at the time. But that was a couple years ago, so I really can't jump in there with any recommendations for printers. I actually did a couple shows, printing right out of the lift hatch of my jeep. Again, lines all day. In those cases, my printer was way too slow and customers were not happy about waiting in the sun and dust (But they did). I wish I had had a couple more printers and a live wire (plug in). I whole heatedly agree with the digital frame idea. You mentioned it in a past thread, and it's been on my mind since. Good idea!

I would love to hear more specific details - # printers, # helpers, # monitors, how you presented the finished photos, etc. Please?

ann

Ann McRae

Thanks, Art - I guess your questions are really what I need to sort out! Any ideas?

ann

Art Scott wrote:

I just saw this......

How many shooters do yoiu have???

whose manning the computer / printer??

Shooting jpeg I suppose but will anyone do minimal processing??

Posed shots.....Always shoot the group shot first then do the singles

Background could easily be a segment of gym wall (hall way also) with banners and such for the event supplied by organizers.....
and 2 lights...we are not shooting for art here just slamming them thru....I tried to keep my team shots to a max of 3 minutes for soccer, baseball and football....can be done if kids are on a tight rope by coach.......
If you supply a backdrop either a black one or a painted sporty one will need a low long bench to seat at least 6, put coaches either on ends standing or behind and split remainder to stand behind and sit on floor in front.....giving you a diamond shape...narrow 1 st row wider second and narro 3rd row............with digital I would shoot 2 group shots and have in you contract no reshoots for closed eyes and such..........

I will keep an eye on this tonight and tomorrow right now I have to go watch a movie with my sister and a neighbor kid she invited over.....

wow...I am slow and leaforte got in ahead of me.....KOOOOOl

Ann McRae

Thanks, Brad - keep the ideas coming!

ann

BradfordBenn wrote:

Okay, I am by no means an expert at this shooting stuff. However for some of this marketing stuff, I kind of understand.

Something to consider. I would recommend that you print up biz cards to leave on the table with a link to a SmugMug gallery that you will set up for the event so that people can go and look at the photos afterward as well.

Also on your photos, for your packing of the prints, you may want to think about a way to include info on how to order more prints or get in contact with you. Something like a cardboard frame that holds the print to keep it "safer" and that has your info. Or even just print it on the back of the image.

Just thinking out loud.

Also one of the things that I have learned from doing sports stuff for my day job, it helps to know enough about the sport to say something like, "I would like a group shot of all the defencemen..." seems to break the ice. (Hockey reference intended)

-=Brad

Tango

Ann when i had the big idea of trying this event photog my plan was to download the pics onsite to my smugmug and let people browse the gallery with a few laptops sitting around with wireless conections and order from smugmug right there....

but i found i simply did not have the time to goto the events let alone do the coverage,... so nothing ever happend with that idea...maybe it helps you...i dont know...

i like the lcd frame idea...

Frog Lady

I don't know how much this will help, but in my area (So. Cal), I have not yet seen a print on demand set up. Instead (and this is prefaced by the event must be a multi-day event), the shooters are there one day and the following day (or week in the case of league play), tables are set up w/ binders by team that contain 5x7 shots from the day before and the clients buy the shots that they like. Unfortunately, it means that none of the 2nd day action is usually shot (ie, a championship game)

They usually have graded pricing along the lines of $9 for 1 shot, 2-5 for $7 each, and all shots of one player for $35. They also offer the ability for the team to purchase the whole binder's worth of photo's as well.

How many other shooters, and other support staff, are you going to have? Again, re T&I, in the events I've particpated in, they have multiple stations. At least 2-3 photographers are taking the individual shots for a team and then the whole team goes over to another station to have the group shot done (this was even done in a club where there were only 14 or so teams, and took approx. 2 hrs). Personnel wise, the organization had two people checking teams in (with pre-paid order forms/evelopes for T&I shots with all the various options), and at least one photographer at each station. Some had assistants at the invididual stations to help with matching image # to individual.

sorry I can't help with more. good luck.

C.

Ann McRae

AaronNelson wrote:

Ann when i had the big idea of trying this event photog my plan was to download the pics onsite to my smugmug and let people browse the gallery with a few laptops sitting around with wireless conections and order from smugmug right there....

but i found i simply did not have the time to goto the events let alone do the coverage,... so nothing ever happend with that idea...maybe it helps you...i dont know...

i like the lcd frame idea...

Thanks, Aaron

Both organizers have insisted on on-site printing. The printing doesn't worry me too much - but the means of displaying, and also the workflow, worry me.

I expect I will shoot raw and train someone to run the photos through LR2 before displaying them.

Display in LR2, Print from LR2, all feasible.

The digital frame would be an advertising mechanism, especially for early in the event or at the event I am going to tomorrow where instant printing isn't expected. Was at a photo shop today and the clerk actually suggested that I buy the lg one and return it after the event! Awfully cheeky!

ann

Ann McRae

Hi Colleen
I've seen the prints on display in books as well. But the organizers are expecting on site printing. I am not really worried about the T&I shots, as I have done this before and know how to organize myself.

I am trying to grasp the logistics of the steps involved: #shooters necessary (only 1 for dance I am certain, but for badminton I think there will be 6 courts going at once - 2 or 3 shooters), # card runners,
# sales staff and IT geeks ->and then # monitors, # printers and type of printer.......

Pricing that I have seen locally has been $20 for an 8 x 12 sheet - 1 8x12 or 2 5 x 7 or whatever else fits.


ann

Frog Lady wrote:

I don't know how much this will help, but in my area (So. Cal), I have not yet seen a print on demand set up. Instead (and this is prefaced by the event must be a multi-day event), the shooters are there one day and the following day (or week in the case of league play), tables are set up w/ binders by team that contain 5x7 shots from the day before and the clients buy the shots that they like. Unfortunately, it means that none of the 2nd day action is usually shot (ie, a championship game)

They usually have graded pricing along the lines of $9 for 1 shot, 2-5 for $7 each, and all shots of one player for $35. They also offer the ability for the team to purchase the whole binder's worth of photo's as well.

How many other shooters, and other support staff, are you going to have? Again, re T&I, in the events I've particpated in, they have multiple stations. At least 2-3 photographers are taking the individual shots for a team and then the whole team goes over to another station to have the group shot done (this was even done in a club where there were only 14 or so teams, and took approx. 2 hrs). Personnel wise, the organization had two people checking teams in (with pre-paid order forms/evelopes for T&I shots with all the various options), and at least one photographer at each station. Some had assistants at the invididual stations to help with matching image # to individual.

sorry I can't help with more. good luck.

C.

Ann McRae

And, I bought myself lights.

BradfordBenn

Another wrinkle...

How are you going to get paid for the prints? Are you going to have a credit card machine? Cash/Check Only?

I do know that there are cellular/wireless credit card machines but that just adds to the complexity.

Also will the venue have tables and power/work space for you?

I am not trying to discourage you, I am trying to make sure you don't forget something.

Ann McRae

BradfordBenn wrote:

Another wrinkle...

How are you going to get paid for the prints? Are you going to have a credit card machine? Cash/Check Only?

I do know that there are cellular/wireless credit card machines but that just adds to the complexity.

Also will the venue have tables and power/work space for you?

I am not trying to discourage you, I am trying to make sure you don't forget something.

I had thought about these items as well - will be sure that power is supplied, table is supplied and I will get set up with wireless CC - I don't think it would work otherwise.

ann

Shootin1st

No experience at this myself but one of the UK photo mags did a fairly detailed write up of their experience doing an event. Reviews included lighting, printers, manpower, etc.

Don't remember the name of the mag, but I bought it in October from a Barnes & Noble while waiting around for a client.

Don't think I have it anymore, but I'll search.

BradfordBenn

And the most important thing...
Don't forget to pack/bring the following:

1. Duct Tape
2. Gaffer Tape
3. Sharpies/Permanant Marker
4. Note Paper
5. Poster Board - in case you need to make a sign
6. sense of humor
7. sense of adventure

Enjoy

ChatKat

Charity
I had thought about a similar set up for a charity shoot a while back.

When I planned it out, I felt I would have needed 3-4 people:

1 to shoot
1 to have the parent/sujbect pay first and sign up it - payment rerquired before shooting! Otherwise, you will be wasting time and money all day.
1 to assist/process images
1 to print and finalize the sale

I was going to use a Canon printer onsite to do 4x6 images - There is a Pixma that does that. The Sony SnapLab is well regarded but cost not worthwhile for me.

It takes time to get the Credit card set up if you don't have a merchant account already.

The biggest reason I didn't do it is because of the time it would have taken to do it right. I would have wanted it all to be very smooth - no glitches at all. If one thing went wrong for me, I would not have been representing myself the way I wanted to in the public and the event was going to be too big and expensive for me to run with it.

BradfordBenn wrote:

Don't forget to pack/bring the following:

1. Duct Tape
2. Gaffer Tape
3. Sharpies/Permanant Marker
4. Note Paper
5. Poster Board - in case you need to make a sign
6. sense of humor
7. sense of adventure

Enjoy

rwells

Ann,

I apologize for my lateness of post, but I just saw this.

I have shot many an event with onsite printing. My events were somewhat different due to not having to cover several "courts" at the same time.

First: I would highly recommend that you DO NOT extend the offer for online sales. When I did this, my onsite printing went down the tube. People will procrastinate if given the opportunity. You want to strike while the iron is hot! They've just competed and are pumped up about it. That's when it's easiest to get the cash coming your way.

Second: You'll just have to figure the number of helpers given your coverages & number of contestants. Try not to make people stand in line a long time to view/purchase prints. Two people on laptops can crank out quite a number of prints. Speaking of viewing, I think the easiest/cheapest would be to use two computers (laptops or desktops) configured in a simple network. Take your router/wireless router and hook each unit into it. DHCP will assign IP's for each by default. (just make sure both are on the same workgroup) Share a folder on one system, or hook up an external HD to one unit and share the resource. This allows the CF card to be downloaded to a shared folder, whether on a system, or external HD, then both systems can access the images at the same time.

Printers: I used Olympus P440 dye-sub printers for a long time. Prints are excellent quality, are moderately priced, and come out completely dry and with a protective coating on them. But --- printer prices started coming down so much that I went to buying Epson injet printers from Sam's Club for $79.00, FULL ink cartridges. Refill packs were $112.00, so I just used up the ink, thew the printer away and bought a new one. Carried 3 printers with me. Also, when one starts giving trouble (and they ALL will when used outside, onsite), don't waste precious time with it, just pull out another one and plug it in.

Lights: I see that you purchased a light kit. Just like Art said. Keep it simple here. These aren't portfolio shots, they just need to be acceptable, and quick. For future reference, I strongly suggest you look into Paul Buff's Vegabond battery system for lights. Power when you need it, where you need it. No long extension cords to worry about someone tripping over.

Price: I don't know your market, but mine was $20.00 for 8x10. I took cash or checks. I can only remember loosing 2 sales from not taking CC's onsite.

Process: No way, no how would I ever consider shooting RAW for onsite printing. Way too much time in post. Basically, you need someone on a system to show pics, lighten/darken if needed, crop, USM --> print...

Good luck

Art Scott

with Randy here......also something I did not see mentioned was each shooter should have at least 3 memory cards.......that way you shoot give card to computer operator, return to shooting and just keep the round robin going.......as for computers and printers....no less than 2 and possible 3 depending on how fast the assistants are on the machines.....you may find that one at each court is what is needed.

Good Luck!!!

Ann McRae

Cathy, Randy, Art

Thanks - when I am more awake, I will revisit your info and probably have more questions!

ann

Snowgirl

At the horse show venue I managed (up until Nov. when I went full time freelance) there were several different photographers who covered various events.

One group offered on-site printing. They had 2 shooters, 3 computers set up for viewing, one good printer, one or two people handling the workflow, taking orders and printing. I don't know if they had credit cards. Plus, they were set up in a barn. They did have power.

The other photographers used the same method: 1 shooter (1 show ring), one display computer, no on-site printing, took orders and pre-payments on-site and delivered later and also offered further viewing on-line (one at least is on SmugMug). One had help to "woman" the booth, take orders and display photos. The other did it herself when she had time.

My own experience (being alone) was that I did the shooting, downloaded to laptop when I had time, offered on-line galleries - and sold next to nothing. Someone mentioned striking while the iron is hot and it's true. I wish I'd had a sales person with my computer to make it work.

Good luck.:D

Ann McRae

Randy - this is really excellent information. Thank you very much. The info about setting up a network is great, as I had no idea about that.

Both these events are indoors and I expect to have power sources. Future events, I am not so sure, but don't expect many to require the full lighting set up that I bought. I look at that set as an investment in flexibility.

Have you ever used lightroom2 for editing? I think that it is about as quick and easy as any editor to do basic tasks like adjust exposure, crop, straighten, sharpen. And it does so on raw files. I never shoot anything but RAW now, on the 1dMkIIN, and can run those simple edits very quickly.

Thanks again, and let me know any other tips you think of!

ann

rwells wrote:

Ann,

I apologize for my lateness of post, but I just saw this.

I have shot many an event with onsite printing. My events were somewhat different due to not having to cover several "courts" at the same time.

First: I would highly recommend that you DO NOT extend the offer for online sales. When I did this, my onsite printing went down the tube. People will procrastinate if given the opportunity. You want to strike while the iron is hot! They've just competed and are pumped up about it. That's when it's easiest to get the cash coming your way.

Second: You'll just have to figure the number of helpers given your coverages & number of contestants. Try not to make people stand in line a long time to view/purchase prints. Two people on laptops can crank out quite a number of prints. Speaking of viewing, I think the easiest/cheapest would be to use two computers (laptops or desktops) configured in a simple network. Take your router/wireless router and hook each unit into it. DHCP will assign IP's for each by default. (just make sure both are on the same workgroup) Share a folder on one system, or hook up an external HD to one unit and share the resource. This allows the CF card to be downloaded to a shared folder, whether on a system, or external HD, then both systems can access the images at the same time.

Printers: I used Olympus P440 dye-sub printers for a long time. Prints are excellent quality, are moderately priced, and come out completely dry and with a protective coating on them. But --- printer prices started coming down so much that I went to buying Epson injet printers from Sam's Club for $79.00, FULL ink cartridges. Refill packs were $112.00, so I just used up the ink, thew the printer away and bought a new one. Carried 3 printers with me. Also, when one starts giving trouble (and they ALL will when used outside, onsite), don't waste precious time with it, just pull out another one and plug it in.

Lights: I see that you purchased a light kit. Just like Art said. Keep it simple here. These aren't portfolio shots, they just need to be acceptable, and quick. For future reference, I strongly suggest you look into Paul Buff's Vegabond battery system for lights. Power when you need it, where you need it. No long extension cords to worry about someone tripping over.

Price: I don't know your market, but mine was $20.00 for 8x10. I took cash or checks. I can only remember loosing 2 sales from not taking CC's onsite.

Process: No way, no how would I ever consider shooting RAW for onsite printing. Way too much time in post. Basically, you need someone on a system to show pics, lighten/darken if needed, crop, USM --> print...

Good luck

Ann McRae

Thanks, Ceci.

I am certain that it is better to capture the sale at the moment. I have done a few soccer events only offering on line printing and sales have been very poor. This is why, now that I have these opportunities, I've chosen to go for it and set up for print sales.

ann

Snowgirl wrote:

At the horse show venue I managed (up until Nov. when I went full time freelance) there were several different photographers who covered various events.

One group offered on-site printing. They had 2 shooters, 3 computers set up for viewing, one good printer, one or two people handling the workflow, taking orders and printing. I don't know if they had credit cards. Plus, they were set up in a barn. They did have power.

The other photographers used the same method: 1 shooter (1 show ring), one display computer, no on-site printing, took orders and pre-payments on-site and delivered later and also offered further viewing on-line (one at least is on SmugMug). One had help to "woman" the booth, take orders and display photos. The other did it herself when she had time.

My own experience (being alone) was that I did the shooting, downloaded to laptop when I had time, offered on-line galleries - and sold next to nothing. Someone mentioned striking while the iron is hot and it's true. I wish I'd had a sales person with my computer to make it work.

Good luck.:D

pathfinder

Ann, you can shoot RAW + jpg with your camera. That will give you access to jpgs immediately with the b/u of RAW if you really need to edit a file. I find LR2 very fast and easy to work with, and I love the way it prints, even better than Photoshop.

CF cards are cheap enough now not to shoot RAW + jpg unless you need the highspeed frame rates for sports or jumping horses.

You can also set the parameters for the jpgs so they are done right out of the camera. I sometimes like RAW + jpg with the camera shooting a B&W version, frequently with with red filter out of doors.

aktse

One quick thing for thought --- how are you accepting payments? To do you have a merchant account and POS system in place? Cash only?

And what about taxes?

rwells

Ann McRae wrote:

Have you ever used lightroom2 for editing? I think that it is about as quick and easy as any editor to do basic tasks like adjust exposure, crop, straighten, sharpen. And it does so on raw files. I never shoot anything but RAW now, on the 1dMkIIN, and can run those simple edits very quickly.

Thanks again, and let me know any other tips you think of!

ann

Ann,

I have not used Lightroom2, so I don't know much about it.

But, I have used ACR & DPP for RAW conversion. Even on my new laptop running 4Gb RAM, Dual-Core 2.00 GHz, Vista 64bit, it's slow. The reason is that the RAW files are much larger than .jpg. For sports, I shoot JPG LG, med compression. This comes out to about what, 30% file size of the RAW file. (I've been shooting FF for some time, so not sure about the exact JPG file size on your camera), but for sure its way smaller than RAW, therefore will process faster.

Also, I don't understand the NEED for RAW files for event shots like this

I only shot RAW for sporting events if I was feeling very unsure about the lighting conditions. 99% of the time, JPG was great.

Anyway, whatever works out for you. I'm not in the business of trying to talk you out of anything...

Have fun, Make money, let us know how it goes.

Ann McRae

Hi Randy - try the free trial of LR2 - absolutely head and shoulders faster than ACR. does everything i do to a sports photo at once, and allows synching all photos to the same settings.

Um, I will need to check speed of whatever computer I buy to p rocess though - good point!

And the lighting at both events does frighten me! I can imagine needing to underexpose a stop to stop action, so RAW may be necessary. We will see.

Thans - your advice, as someone that has done this, is priceless to me.

ann

rwells wrote:

Ann,

I have not used Lightroom2, so I don't know much about it.

But, I have used ACR & DPP for RAW conversion. Even on my new laptop running 4Gb RAM, Dual-Core 2.00 GHz, Vista 64bit, it's slow. The reason is that the RAW files are much larger than .jpg. For sports, I shoot JPG LG, med compression. This comes out to about what, 30% file size of the RAW file. (I've been shooting FF for some time, so not sure about the exact JPG file size on your camera), but for sure its way smaller than RAW, therefore will process faster.

Also, I don't understand the NEED for RAW files for event shots like this

I only shot RAW for sporting events if I was feeling very unsure about the lighting conditions. 99% of the time, JPG was great.

Anyway, whatever works out for you. I'm not in the business of trying to talk you out of anything...

Have fun, Make money, let us know how it goes.